Curtis vs. Tempest

[Squibbler]

Ok, so I recently purchased a Tempest action and I just picked up from my FFL yesterday. So excited to get this beautiful action. Loved everything about it until I lifted the bolt. First impression was, oh, that's a little stiffer than I expected. So I waited till I got home to place in vise and place a little lube on. Started cycling and was still a little bummed on bolt lift effort. Meanwhile I am watching this YouTube video on the Curtis action and what appears to be a one finger bolt lift. So anybody out there handle both of these actions and render some honest feedback or have ability to measure the lift for comparison? Just need to satisfy my curiosity and move forward with my build on a Tempest or sell it to my buddy that was drooling on it and pick up a Curtis. Thanks ahead for feedback.

 

[Squibbler]

Thanks MDM for the info.... appreciated

 

[Shanerbanner10]

Squibbler, I have both actions and like both equally. The tempest will smooth up with usage. The bolt lift to me is not heavier than a remmy or similar actions. The Curtis Customs Axiom is a little smoother closing the bolt, but bolt lift on an uncocked action is about the same as a tempest. If not the same then quite similar. I would tell you to build your tempest and have your buddy get an Axiom then you guys can play with both and figure out if one of you like the other more and why. If you are used to a 2 lug action the Axiom will definitely be a more familiar feel in comparison to a Tempest. The roller on the Axiom is an awesome feature that really keeps friction down on the camming action. One small plus for the Tempest is the ability to run AW mags. The Axiom is more of a "hunting" action and will only accept AI mags. The vector that Curtis Customs is coming out with soonish will accept AW's and have an integral lug, plus a couple more features.
if you have any further questions let me know.

 

[Twinsen]

I have a Tempest. It is quite heavy. The rifle torques pretty hard in cycling. I can lift the 16 pound rifle by the bolt handle without fear of it unlocking. You have to put your weak hand on the action to make sure the rifle doesn't flip.

This is much improved from new. New, it took 2 hands to cycle it. I asked GAP about it, and they said to work the action a few thousand times. I did, and it improved from awful to terrible. I avoid using the rifle because the action sucks.

 

[Supersubes]

I have a Tempest. It is quite heavy. The rifle torques pretty hard in cycling. I can lift the 16 pound rifle by the bolt handle without fear of it unlocking. You have to put your weak hand on the action to make sure the rifle doesn't flip.

This is much improved from new. New, it took 2 hands to cycle it. I asked GAP about it, and they said to work the action a few thousand times. I did, and it improved from awful to terrible. I avoid using the rifle because the action sucks.

I did that same test with mine, but they don't lift the butt. While much heavier than a two lug, they're right in line with my AI's. What are you lubing with? Is the bayonet portion of the bolt shroud lubed? What about the spring and pin? I found that a moly works wonders on the two I have. Literally night and day from the other greases and oils i've tried.

 

[Twinsen]

I've got militec lube in it.

The improvement was due to wearing away the finish. Whatever it came coated with is rubbery and gooey and sloughed off in places. I didn't put 2 and 2 together on the finish being the cause for the action being so bad. I asked GAP what the finish was, but they didn't know.

 

[MDM]

I just happen to have a Curtis Axiom sitting here so I dropped it in a chassis, no barrel or scope this time. It weighs 8lbs 8 oz. It still allows for 1 finger operation.

 

[Supersubes]

That's awesome. My bighorn is like that, but it's a two lug of course. The Tempest is nowhere near that light.

 

[Twinsen]

I just happen to have a Curtis Axiom sitting here so I dropped it in a chassis, no barrel or scope this time. It weighs 8lbs 8 oz. It still allows for 1 finger operation.

That's the kind of smooth I thought I was buying into with a $1,300 action. Turns out I was buying into a 6 lug Mosin Nagant. Lesson learned. I'm sure if I bought that Curtis it'd be similar and I'd come on here and bitch about it just the same instead of just buying a Win70 that's a known quantity.

 

[Squibbler]

So, second impression after spending more time with the Tempest is that this thing is fast. Extremely happy how fast this action can cycle. Have purposely tried to bind it by pushing hard from different angles and this thing just keeps on cycling. As I keep cycling, the bolt lift is definitely getting lighter, feels like it's breaking in. Reminds me of my baseball glove from high school... the more you oil it and beat it the softer it gets.
Thanks for the comparative info Shanerbanner10. As far as my friend, I'd have to buy the Axiom cause he's completely in love with the Tempest. Had to pry it out of his hands... literally. I am super happy with the Tempest and the more I work it, the better it gets.
Still curious about that Curtis, especially the Vector. Anybody out there with further info on it or more comparative info from field use and/or feedback from their Smith in trueness is all appreciated.

 

[mpk1996]

I just happen to have a Curtis Axiom sitting here so I dropped it in a chassis, no barrel or scope this time. It weighs 8lbs 8 oz. It still allows for 1 finger operation.

Nice video, and I really like the Curtis action, but isn't it a cock on lift action? so, it will be smooth since the way you show the video, the firing pin is already cocked. how does it compare when you pull the trigger each time you cycle the bolt?

 

[MDM]

The trigger is in the action, Timney 510, and I pulled it every time in that video. You should be able to hear the trigger break if you turn the volume up.

 

[5RWill]

I have a Tempest. It is quite heavy. The rifle torques pretty hard in cycling. I can lift the 16 pound rifle by the bolt handle without fear of it unlocking. You have to put your weak hand on the action to make sure the rifle doesn't flip.

This is much improved from new. New, it took 2 hands to cycle it. I asked GAP about it, and they said to work the action a few thousand times. I did, and it improved from awful to terrible. I avoid using the rifle because the action sucks.

I'm to the point of thinking that Horizon had some QC issues with the Tempest. Too many inconsistent reports compared to how mine feels. Which is the exact opposite. I can operate the bolt independent of throwing the rifle off target and it's the smoothest action i've handled to date once coated. The only other action that was smoother was it when it was bare. This is in direct comparison to my Dad's Ionbonded SR3 and a jewelled 700. The only exception to how i run the tempest is hard and fast. I don't slow down regardless of the stage or situation. Just likes to be ran that way. In the tempest thread it's pretty evident some users haven't had as much of a pain free experience as me as far as function. Only issues i've really had were inletting it to fit manners Mini-chassis and firing pin protrusion associated with different triggers and hangers.

I'd like to see Curtis or Gap throw a floating bolt head on a 3-lug/60 degree design. That and i hope Curtis gets a swept back bolt handle.

 

[hic28]

I'm to the point of thinking that Horizon had some QC issues with the Tempest. Too many inconsistent reports compared to how mine feels. Which is the exact opposite. I can operate the bolt independent of throwing the rifle off target and it's the smoothest action i've handled to date once coated. The only other action that was smoother was it when it was bare. This is in direct comparison to my Dad's Ionbonded SR3 and a jewelled 700. The only exception to how i run the tempest is hard and fast. I don't slow down regardless of the stage or situation. Just likes to be ran that way. In the tempest thread it's pretty evident some users haven't had as much of a pain free experience as me as far as function. Only issues i've really had were inletting it to fit manners Mini-chassis and firing pin protrusion associated with different triggers and hangers.

I'd like to see Curtis or Gap throw a floating bolt head on a 3-lug/60 degree design. That and i hope Curtis gets a swept back bolt handle.

I agree, he had some other issue because both my tempests have extremely light bolt lift and are smooth, I've had zero issues with both. One is cerakoted and one is ionbonded.

 

[snarkscarbine]

The reason a floating bolt head works on a two-lug is because the pivot axis of the bolt head is on the same axis as the lugs. If the bolt body is your X axis, then the pin exists on the Y axis, and allows the bolt head to pivot in an arc that exists on plane X/axis Z (sort of). This allows allows the lugs to adjust to the lug recesses because the lug abutment faces are also on the Y axis along the the bolt lug faces. A three-lug floating bolt would require a completely different mechanism to allow it to freely pivot in any direction. It can be done, but it would be far more complicated and probably far less robust than simply sticking a 1/4" hardened steel pin through the bolt body.

This would actually be a great application for toroidal bolt lugs.

 

[jzwolen]

I'm to the point of thinking that Horizon had some QC issues with the Tempest. Too many inconsistent reports compared to how mine feels. Which is the exact opposite. I can operate the bolt independent of throwing the rifle off target and it's the smoothest action i've handled to date once coated. The only other action that was smoother was it when it was bare. This is in direct comparison to my Dad's Ionbonded SR3 and a jewelled 700. The only exception to how i run the tempest is hard and fast. I don't slow down regardless of the stage or situation. Just likes to be ran that way. In the tempest thread it's pretty evident some users haven't had as much of a pain free experience as me as far as function. Only issues i've really had were inletting it to fit manners Mini-chassis and firing pin protrusion associated with different triggers and hangers.

I'd like to see Curtis or Gap throw a floating bolt head on a 3-lug/60 degree design. That and i hope Curtis gets a swept back bolt handle.

I also agree with the possible QC issues.

I just received my fully DLC'd Axiom action yesterday. Damn this thing is smooth. I really love the bolt lug raceways, as no matter what I do with the bolt, i can't seem to bind it in the action. My Tempest has always felt smooth, but only if i ran it perfectly. If I put a small amount of torque in an odd direction, I was always able to bind it up slightly. I will say that my Tempest lift is lighter, but I'm sure its because of the 1200rnds and probably another 2000 dry cycles.

The Axiom bolt lift is already starting to break in, after probably 200 cycles while sitting on the couch yesterday. I'm guessing they will probably be even by the time i've got 2000-3000 cycles through the Axiom.

I've always had issues chambering rounds in my Tempest, and that has been the main reason for switching. If i can't reliably feed my action, who cares how light or fast i can run it. I half-assed bolted up a DBM and loose-threaded a barrel onto my Axiom last night, and 100% cycled rounds. I'm a happy camper for sure.

 

[orkan]

Lone Peak and BAT VR/Tactical will also give a guy 1-finger bolt lift. As will many Kelbly atlas tactical's. Lone Peak is match-ready... a very tough workhorse type action... so they get my vote above all else.

 

[Twinsen]

I'm to the point of thinking that Horizon had some QC issues with the Tempest.

i think that's the state of the industry. Craftsmanship is really, really bad nearly across the board.

 

[orkan]

i think that's the state of the industry. Craftsmanship is really, really bad nearly across the board.

You obviously don't shop with us, or shop where I shop. Lone Peak actions are extremely good and they are consistent. As is the rifles built using them from TS Customs. Our Competition Primer Seater is certainly not lacking in craftsmanship. There are several other companies whom are quite good at what they do as well. The problem happens when people lacking in experience are talking up a product. Then others follow behind them and realize the guy talking about it probably didn't have a large enough sample size to speak competently. Combine that with people's tendency to spite things they can't afford and you end up exactly where we are. The truth of things masked behind a sea of inexperience.

 

[Squibbler]

Lone Peak and BAT VR/Tactical will also give a guy 1-finger bolt lift. As will many Kelbly atlas tactical's. Lone Peak is match-ready... a very tough workhorse type action... so they get my vote above all else.

Both the Tempest and Curtis are 60° bolt lift. I believe the BAT, Lone Peak, and Kelby's are 90° bolt lift --correct me if I'm wrong. So this would be an apples to oranges comparison in terms of bolt lift.