Custom Action question

[ut755ln]

Before I typed this I did the google search of the forums and found a couple of threads that were close but didn't quite address what I am wondering.

I am going to build my first high end rifle and after reading the site for a while and shooting/handling quite a few different rifles in Houston I decided that I want to go with reliability as my primary criteria.

The rifle will be multipurpose hunting/target shooting.

I will freely admit that I am a big angry gorilla and I am very hard on everything I own, with that in mind who makes the most reliable action?

 

[netranger6]

Re: Custom Action question

Surgeon, GA Templar, Apa Genesis, Phoenix, Defiance. What's your budget?

 

[scotharr]

Re: Custom Action question

From a pure reliability standpoint, it's hard to beat a Remington 700. 3 rings of steel, loose enough bolt to action tolerances so dirt is never a problem. If you are set on a custom action, I'd recommend a Remington clone with a one piece bolt (& integral rail/recoil lug if possible). Also, pay attention to the bolt to action clearance and avoid ones with "minimal" clearance. Defiance and Stiller actions fit these criteria.

 

[ut755ln]

Re: Custom Action question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surgeon, GA Templar, Apa Genesis, Phoenix, Defiance. What's your budget? </div></div>No budget, it will cost what it cost and I want to do it right.

 

[SScott]

Re: Custom Action question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut755ln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before I typed this I did the google search of the forums and found a couple of threads that were close but didn't quite address what I am wondering.

I am going to build my first high end rifle and after reading the site for a while and shooting/handling quite a few different rifles in Houston I decided that I want to go <span style="color: #009900">with reliability as my primary criteria</span>.

The rifle will be multipurpose hunting/target shooting.

I will freely admit that I am a big angry gorilla and I am very hard on everything I own, with that in mind who makes the most reliable action? </div></div>

Inless you want to pick and choose each compnent you should look at the TRG platform and Accuracy International. Those will give you rock solid reliabilty and accuracy.
Food for thought,
SScott

 

[lw8]

Re: Custom Action question

I searched this topic as well...although I'm sure it has been previously discussed.

Is there an action thread or discussion of pros/cons of the various custom actions vs a trued 700?

It isn't a money issue for me...but I have noticed that some folks have strong loyalty to one or another and I was wondering why?

 

[ut755ln]

Re: Custom Action question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sunnyside Scott</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ut755ln</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Before I typed this I did the google search of the forums and found a couple of threads that were close but didn't quite address what I am wondering.

I am going to build my first high end rifle and after reading the site for a while and shooting/handling quite a few different rifles in Houston I decided that I want to go <span style="color: #009900">with reliability as my primary criteria</span>.

The rifle will be multipurpose hunting/target shooting.

I will freely admit that I am a big angry gorilla and I am very hard on everything I own, with that in mind who makes the most reliable action? </div></div>

Inless you want to pick and choose each compnent you should look at the TRG platform and Accuracy International. Those will give you rock solid reliabilty and accuracy.
Food for thought,
SScott </div></div>I am looking at a TRG tomorrow, dealer in Houston has one. The only AICS I have seen have been the kits with drop in actions.

 

[Mohawk3a]

Re: Custom Action question

Surgeon! The surgeon action has more play when the bolt is back, and doesn't fully tighten up until it's closed. This helps with reliability while still giving you tight tolerances, the surgeon bolt is also hardened on the back side of the lugs to prevent damage during rough cycling. All the actions listed above are great! IMO the surgeon is the best combination of performance and durability. Though you can't go wrong with any of the actions listed above.

 

[Alan Griffith]

Re: Custom Action question

At our monthly shoot this past Saturday we had quite a bit of dust, grit and sand blowing around. I know folks had issues with any super tight actions. One guy to my left, even with my non-elec muffs on, I could hear the grinding as he was closing his action. I run a Surgeon and have no problems other than slowing down the action as it's worked.

Alan

 

[BlackWhiskey]

Re: Custom Action question

I noticed that there is no mention of the Badger M2008 series of actions. I have had one and thought it to be nearly the perfect action. Supper rugged, 60deg bolt throw, 3 lug bolt, etc... I now have a Surgeon XL action (which is a very different style action as I'm sure you're aware), and I can't really say which one I like more. I can say that I haven't found a 70% increase in accuracy OR reliability to justify the cost. That's not to say that it isn't there, but I am ignorant of it if it exists.

I like them both though, and would have a tough time deciding which one to take if both were offered to me.

 

[cavemanmoore]

Re: Custom Action question

Plus 1 for the M2008. It's built like a tank. If you haven't played with one, you need to before you buy anything else.

-Chris

 

[ut755ln]

Re: Custom Action question

I really appreciate the comments everyone. I have not seen the Badger action so I am going to call them today and try to find out if there is a dealer in Houston so I can go look at it.

 

[Pusher591]

Re: Custom Action question

I too was in the market for a custom action.

I chose the surgeon 591 because its one integral lug and rail so that right there means its going to be stiffer and more rugged.

I thoguht about the M2008 but weight is an issue for me so I chose not to go that route. Its almost 2lbs heavier than most the actions listed. Any of the others are still good to go. The surgeon I got for an excellence price but been thinking about the SAC "Alpha 11"

I hear its very nice!

 

[terrygood]

Re: Custom Action question

AIAW is hands down the most reliable. I don't like the feel of them, but they are up there. I love the surgeon and custom action as well. Rem 700 is the base line in my eyes for anything worth shooting. If you are like me resale will always be a issue. Go with something you can sell down the road. AIAW hold there value better than most. If custom go with a reputable builder from here on the Hide.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Custom Action question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: terryg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AIAW is hands down the most reliable. I don't like the feel of them, but they are up there. I love the surgeon and custom action as well. Rem 700 is the base line in my eyes for anything worth shooting. If you are like me resale will always be a issue. Go with something you can sell down the road. AIAW hold there value better than most. If custom go with a reputable builder from here on the Hide.</div></div>

I agree you want absolute reliable get the aiaw or sako trg.

Most won't agree with this but if you want 2 lug and reliable the fn spr is hard to beat, controlled round feed static ejector, one piece bolt, simple fantastic trigger, 3 position safety, built in recoil lug.

Mind you i currently own a sako trg 22 so i am alittle bias

 

[lw8]

Re: Custom Action question

The Surgeon is built with a steel that can rust according to reports. Has this been an issue for anyone?

Why do they not make it from a more rust resistant steel or give it a Melonite type surface treatment?

 

[BobinNC]

Re: Custom Action question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: lw8</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Surgeon is built with a steel that can rust according to reports. Has this been an issue for anyone?

Why do they not make it from a more rust resistant steel or give it a Melonite type surface treatment? </div></div>

Damn, Chrome Moly 4340 rusts if not taken care of, who knew?????

 

[cloudy]

Re: Custom Action question

+1 for defiance and surgeon actions.

 

[AMTeam4]

Re: Custom Action question

I have a Surgeon action coated with Ceracoat. No rust issues to report. A couple times after a wet range I found a little surface rust over some ding marks. Brushed right off with Break Free. Just a part of regular rifle maintenance. Check out Eezox if you have a serious vendetta against rust.
After reading many positive reviews on Surgeon actions what sold me was the integral picatinny rail and recoil lug. Unbelievably solid scope mounting foundation and maximum barrel thread engagement.
I've always thought an NP3 coated Surgeon action would be an interesting "anti-rust" build.

 

[223ai]

Re: Custom Action question

Bighorn or AI

 

[ut755ln]

Re: Custom Action question

Well I learned a lot today thanks to a really friendly gunsmith who was kind enough to spend 30 minutes with me talking about a build.

I stopped by and met with Bobby Pitchford who is the owner of Pitchford Custom Gunworks in Waller Texas. http://www.pcgguns.com/

Bobby had a couple of rifles in various stage of completion and I got to handle a Surgeon long action, a Stiller Tac 30, a rem 700 that had been rebuilt, and a M2008 from Badger.

Bobby effectively said that they all perform extremely well and are easy enough to work with. Like some of the hide members on this thread, he pointed out that if reliability is most important to me he recommended the Rem 700 reworked or another military proven system like those offered from AI.

As an aside, it is a family affair for Bobby as two of his sons who are USMC vets have returned to Waller to work with their dad after their time in the corps.

 

[VKC]

Re: Custom Action question

For a bolt action, all of the ones already mentioned are very realiable, especially if you clean and oil your gun. As far as an entire platform or operationg system, I agree the TRG and AICS are great. For a true custom action, I personally like the GA precision Templar action, they make awesome rifles.

Another factor is what type of hunting you are planning do? Many of the custom rifles already mentioned are very accurate, but don't forget about considering weight if you are going to be hiking your gear for extended distances.

 

[Hasgun Willtravel]

Re: Custom Action question

I live in Michigan, shoot year round, comps all year long from West Virginia to Texas to Washington. My rifle has never had a failure, except for a extractor, but I carry a spare, 4000 abusive rounds will tend to wear one out.

The action is a Pierce Engineering repeater. Highly recommended. Cheaper than some, higher quality than most.

 

[steve123]

Re: Custom Action question

Surgeon 591 because there's one less thing to come loose "scope mount" and you won't have to buy a 20 MOA base for it.Not to mention the extra rigidness because of all the that metal on top.They seemed to have found the correct tolerance for bolt and receiver fit for reliability as well as smoothness of bolt close and bolt slide.

IMO it's the standard by which all Rem 700 style actions are judged by.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Custom Action question

I own actions from BAT, Badger, Remington, Surgeon and GAP (Lawton built). All are short action except the Surgeon. I have had good luck with all of them but have come to understand the assets and minuses of each. The BAT is a BR action and, IMHO, should not be used for a tactical build.
The Badger M2008 is a feakin' tank! That and the fact that it can easily use the AW mag are it's two biggest assets. One of those, robustness, is it's biggest minus as well. They are very heavy.
Remington actions can be made to be everything a custom is these days. Truing, polishing bolt raceways, installing PTG custom fit bolts, etc. would get you an excellent action. But why do that? My guess is it will cost more than many of the true custom actions.
GAP actions are now made by Defiance, I believe, and they are very nice actions indeed. I have seen nothing to make me doubt them in the examples I have held and shot. You can get it built by GAP or thru Defiance.
Now on to Surgeon. I've owned the Surgeon for less time but I have to say it has grown on me the quickest. It is smooth, well built and utterly reliable. My gun was built in their shop and the attention to quality and detail stand out. Plus, they have been super to deal with. Sometimes the best asset of all is the company behind the product. This is true with Surgeon and they would be my pick for the next action I need.

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Custom Action question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I own actions from BAT, Badger, Remington, Surgeon and GAP (Lawton built). All are short action except the Surgeon. I have had good luck with all of them but have come to understand the assets and minuses of each. The BAT is a BR action and, IMHO, should not be used for a tactical build.
The Badger M2008 is a feakin' tank! That and the fact that it can easily use the AW mag are it's two biggest assets. One of those, robustness, is it's biggest minus as well. They are very heavy.
Remington actions can be made to be everything a custom is these days. Truing, polishing bolt raceways, installing PTG custom fit bolts, etc. would get you an excellent action. But why do that? My guess is it will cost more than many of the true custom actions.
GAP actions are now made by Defiance, I believe, and they are very nice actions indeed. I have seen nothing to make me doubt them in the examples I have held and shot. You can get it built by GAP or thru Defiance.
Now on to Surgeon. I've owned the Surgeon for less time but I have to say it has grown on me the quickest. It is smooth, well built and utterly reliable. My gun was built in their shop and the attention to quality and detail stand out. Plus, they have been super to deal with. Sometimes the best asset of all is the company behind the product. This is true with Surgeon and they would be my pick for the next action I need. </div></div>

+1 for Surgeon actions. I own a Surgeon 591 and it's rock solid.

 

[RBell24]

Re: Custom Action question

Check out Stiller. Great actions and made right here in Texas

 

[Tangodown911]

Re: Custom Action question

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Surgeon 591 because there's one less thing to come loose "scope mount" and you won't have to buy a 20 MOA base for it.Not to mention the extra rigidness because of all the that metal on top.They seemed to have found the correct tolerance for bolt and receiver fit for reliability as well as smoothness of bolt close and bolt slide.

IMO it's the standard by which all Rem 700 style actions are judged by. </div></div>

Roger that+1000

From what I've seen in my 591 I have no reason to look for a better solution. I doubt you will find it not putting to par with even the highest expectations.

Yeah there are other quality actions out there but something about the least amount of moving parts or places where something can go wrong just makes me happy. Integrated rail and lug adds strength and accuracy plain and simple.