Custom actions and dirt

[Yogi619]

A few weeks ago I posted a question about rifle calibers “just want one rifle”, and part of the criteria was coyote hunting.

Since then I picked up a cheap R700 223 ADL that my girlfriend has claimed, so I’ll be building myself a 308, since saving pelts is no longer on the criteria list for my own build.

But here’s my problem.... My girlfriend is a wildlife biologist, and we spend a lot of time walking around in the mountains of Utah, Montana, Wyoming, etc, and my shit tends to get incredibly dirty after a while. This rifle is going to go with me on some international hunts (she guides in Tajikistan) and Im going to be away from where I can do maintenance for days to weeks at a time.

I’ve been looking at GAP rifles, but I keep reading reports of Defiance actions not doing well with dust and dirt. So I’ve been looking at models like their Rock, or even a modified M40 clone, built on a R700 action, since I can’t ever recall anyone saying that an M40 has locked up while in Iraq/Afghanistan (though I could be wrong). Side question on this: is the lugged scope base worth it, on a rifle that will 100% get dropped from time to time?

I know that people typically suggest a custom action vs a trued R700, but does that same advice hold true when it’s likely going to get trashed on a mountain from time to time? Not saying that I abuse equipment, but she and I tend to go to places where maintenance and cleaning isn’t a simple process for a short while.

 

[2aBaC̶a̶]

Sounds like you need an AK-47. ?

 

[Yogi619]

I am learning Russian, so....... ?

 

[mi223]

Bighorn actions are known to handle dirt and dust well.

 

[Edds]

You don't have to use the action as received. You can modify it to fit your needs. If you want to use it as it came out of the box, buy a Surgeon.

 

[Ian A. Kelbly]

Our Atlas actions were designed to handle tons of sand and dirt and still function properly. What caliber would you like to build your rifle in?

 

[kthomas]

If I were you, I would talk to GAP and let them know what your criteria is for a rifle, and they can guide you into which one of their rifles is the best suited for you.

My very first precision rifle was a V1 GAP Crusader, with a cerakoted Defiance Rebel action (one of the older versions). I will admit that it struggled in really dusty conditions. It was to the point that at certain matches I had to run the bolt completely dry to mitigate issues. The combination of tight tolerances and cerakote can make for an action that doesn't handle debris well. Some gunsmiths do it very successfully.

A Defiance can be made to be very tolerant of debris. If you order it "off the shelf", the tolerances are generally pretty tight. Some gunsmiths, like Terry Cross, have their own proprietary specs for their Defiance action orders, which accommodates debris very well. I'm not sure how GAP specs their Defiance actions and how tolerant their current rifles are to debris, it would be worth a phone call to them.

Other custom actions are designed to be run well in really adverse conditions as is - LP Fuzion, Impact, Bighorn, ARC, etc. all do a good job of this. One of the really nice things about Defiance is that you can custom order it almost any way you want it. But you need to know what you want and how to spec it.

At the end of the day, I would highly recommend talking to GAP.

 

[Yogi619]

Our Atlas actions were designed to handle tons of sand and dirt and still function properly. What caliber would you like to build your rifle in?

I was looking at 308, shooting heavies. I wanted a caliber that picks a punch and is fairly common and has decent barrel life, based on a short action. I’m trying not to look at 6.5PRC, because it fits almost none of that criteria, but it looks like a lot of fun.

I sent an email to SAC last night, asking for their opinion on the matter. I’m really still open to any action or gunsmith. I just need something that works.

I was really crushing on Tac Ops rifles for a long time, but after watching some videos and seeing guys having a hard time closing the bolt, I feel like they’re incredible for their designed purpose of working in urban environments, but probably not too suited to walking across streams or laying in the dirt at Moab.

 

[jrayw02]

My impact hasn't had any issues in dusty/dirty situations. Prefits for most calibers are plentiful as well.

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[Lowlight]

Just buy an AI and be done with it LOL

 

[Yogi619]

Just buy an AI and be done with it LOL

That would have definitely been the case, but legitimately the only reason why I can’t bring myself to do it is because I think they’re super ugly ?. I know, it’s not really a good reason, but I just can’t help it.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Just buy an AI and be done with it LOL

Beat me to it.

 

[bigwatchpilot]

That would have definitely been the case, but legitimately the only reason why I can’t bring myself to do it is because I think they’re super ugly ?. I know, it’s not really a good reason, but I just can’t help it.

Ugly...I’m starting to question your story and weather or not you really have a girlfriend. Lots of good choices mentioned. The bigger question is what scope are you going with, do you carry an extra with you as you travel the corners of the globe and/or do you have it set up with iron/fixed sights as backup?

 

[NWnewguy]

I can't comment on a AI rifles first hand, as I've never owned one. They do enjoy a good reputation and I have no reason to think they aren't quite good. They are a little heavy to tote all over Western Asia through.

However, I live, shoot and hunt in the desert southwest where the dust is fine and the wind is always blowing. I've used a bunch of different actions and had reasonable performance out of all of them. The one that I have never had an issue with regardless of conditions, dirtiness, or temperature has been the Mausingfield. They just work and whether I run them dry or with lube I have never had a problem.

 

[kthomas]

I can't comment on a AI rifles first hand, as I've never owned one. They do enjoy a good reputation and I have no reason to think they aren't quite good. They are a little heavy to tote all over Western Asia through.

However, I live, shoot and hunt in the desert southwest where the dust is fine and the wind is always blowing. I've used a bunch of different actions and had reasonable performance out of all of them. The one that I have never had an issue with regardless of conditions, dirtiness, or temperature has been the Mausingfield. They just work and whether I run them dry or with lube I have never had a problem.

The Mausingfield is an excellent option. Mines been very reliable in adverse conditions.

 

[pmclaine]

Build a custom R700 in the M40 style is my vote.

3 to 5 degrees of bolt slop from locked to pulled to the rear should allow any dirt to drop as long as you properly lube. Just beware the weak internal magazine design - fail to get one round just right you may either ride over the top of the round or bind on the feed ramp.

Otherwise you want perfect feeding go with a Pre64 Model 70 or a Springfield 03 in 30-06. Their mags never seem to fail.

beware my advise though as I am a fool and me and my money frequently part.

 

[bigwatchpilot]

I’m a Tikka fan, I would consider the Arctic model they have...all weather, compact, backup irons.

 

[SuperSneakySniper]

Tikka gets my vote! I havent used them in sandy conditions, but dirt and mud was habdled no problem! Same with a standard ol' 700 tbh. Also Impact Precision, Bighorn, Lone Peak, and some other customs are said to do fine in crap conditions. Honestly you can just take your pick. But an AI would be pretty heavy lol.

 

[SkyScrapin]

Surgeon and AI are the easy answers.

Haven't had issues with my Defiance, but looks like milage varies depending on who you're talking too.

 

[Mxridr]

Bighorns handle dusty condition very well. I shoot a monthly field match and the gun is usually in the wind and dirt.

 

[Ankeny]

I used to shoot tons of p-dogs with my AIAT and AI rifles work when caked in dust and dirt. My elk and coyote rifles are both built on Bighorn actions and they handle dust, dirt, and mud very well. I would bet post number 6 is also spot on.

 

[Yogi619]

As of right now I’m 95% sure that I’m going to build an Atlas by Kelbly. The price seems right, and I’m just going to have to take their word that they’re made to perform with junk in the receiver. The Bighorn TL-3 and Trued 700 are tied for a close second. That M40a1 picture just wasn’t fair.

Someone had asked about optics, and I plan on purchasing a S&B 5-25 is my first choice, but I’ve been keeping an eye out on the PX pages here and see a Leupold Mark 8 that looks interesting, or possibly stepping down into something in the 4-16 range to save a bit of size and weight.

Likely a Triggertech Primary for a trigger, as I’m told that the roller bearing design is self cleaning.

22-24” barrel.

The last part that I’m really unsure about is a DBM vs BDL. I’m heavily leaning towards a DBM M5, but I’m not sure that it’s really needed. The stock Im going to be using, McMillan A-5, is already inlet for a BDL.

 

[SonicBurlap]

As of right now I’m 95% sure that I’m going to build an Atlas by Kelbly. The price seems right, and I’m just going to have to take their word that they’re made to perform with junk in the receiver. The Bighorn TL-3 and Trued 700 are tied for a close second. That M40a1 picture just wasn’t fair.

Someone had asked about optics, and I plan on purchasing a S&B 5-25 is my first choice, but I’ve been keeping an eye out on the PX pages here and see a Leupold Mark 8 that looks interesting, or possibly stepping down into something in the 4-16 range to save a bit of size and weight.

Likely a Triggertech Primary for a trigger, as I’m told that the roller bearing design is self cleaning.

22-24” barrel.

The last part that I’m really unsure about is a DBM vs BDL. I’m heavily leaning towards a DBM M5, but I’m not sure that it’s really needed. The stock Im going to be using, McMillan A-5, is already inlet for a BDL.

Bighorn TL3 with a TriggerTech Special, in a KRG Bravo and you won't go wrong, no matter how dusty it gets.

 

[SonicBurlap]

Make sure you send your trigger in for having it timed to the action when you order it though; Bighorn does it for free at time of purchase of the action. It sure does result in one of the smoothest actions out there if you get the DLC coating.

 

[Yogi619]

I’ll be ordering my TL-3 in the next few days, out my hands on a new (to me) Manners T4A with a mini chassis and M5 DBM, and I’ll be slapping on a Triggertech diamond.

I get a great deal through ExpertVoice on Proof barrels, so now I just have to decide on carbon fiber or stainless.

I’ll be keeping an eye out on the PX section for glass after the new year.

Thanks everyone!!

 

[FUNCTIONAL]

I dont know what shape you are in...but that sounds like its going to be a weighty rig regardless of your condition hiking around mountains. If those are really the parts youve committed to I'd go carbon fiber proof to help keep some weight off her.

My personal thought on it would have been a stainless rem700, get the bolt fluted, lug slotted and 8-40 screws, slap a 20 to 22" proof on it (or marksman/varmint contour) and throw it in a mcmillan A1, A1-3 or if manners is your thing a T3 in CF. BDL style floor plate or if you wanted detachable go with a style that has the release button inside the trigger guard to prevent accidental drops. Trigger...anything thats sealed, my choice would have been Bix N Andy but trigger tech works.

Also...the mini chassis is a built in DBM and chassis bed. You do not need to buy a Badger M5 unless you were just referring to it being a DBM with that language.

 

[Ian A. Kelbly]

I was looking at 308, shooting heavies. I wanted a caliber that picks a punch and is fairly common and has decent barrel life, based on a short action. I’m trying not to look at 6.5PRC, because it fits almost none of that criteria, but it looks like a lot of fun.

I sent an email to SAC last night, asking for their opinion on the matter. I’m really still open to any action or gunsmith. I just need something that works.

I was really crushing on Tac Ops rifles for a long time, but after watching some videos and seeing guys having a hard time closing the bolt, I feel like they’re incredible for their designed purpose of working in urban environments, but probably not too suited to walking across streams or laying in the dirt at Moab.

That would be a great option for a hunting rig. Especially if you are travelling internationally, you can find .308 ammo anywhere. Let us know if we can help you out. The Atlas holds headspace to .001" so we can chamber barrels for you without having the rifle in our facility and we have a big network of builders that can do the same for you! The Atlas comes with 8-40 screws and a pin in the rail. Mechanical ejector, so dirt won't stop it, extreme duty bolt stop that is built like a tank, and is perfect for your application!

 

[Genin]

I’ll be ordering my TL-3 in the next few days, out my hands on a new (to me) Manners T4A with a mini chassis and M5 DBM, and I’ll be slapping on a Triggertech diamond.

I get a great deal through ExpertVoice on Proof barrels, so now I just have to decide on carbon fiber or stainless.

I’ll be keeping an eye out on the PX section for glass after the new year.

Thanks everyone!!

Just so you are aware my Proof Research barrel took 10 weeks to get to me after my order from ExpertVoice.

 

[b6graham]

the intended purpose and what you're building seem to be at odds with eachother. mostly target rifle intended for high altitude hiking and climbing. but its a 308 so the extra weight is kinda eh

days to weeks without maintenance? cant take the bolt out and clean the action a little?

 

[z7.jled]

A mausingfield would serve you well, you can’t kill it, either a manners/McMillan stock of your choice or a chassis, I like the krg whiskey 3 or bravo for your purpose, cheaper and fairly light

 

[candyx]

Barrett MRAD then you don't have to worry about any environmental conditions plus you could provide cover for AI users cleaning mud from their bolts.

 

[FCrifles]

I built and ran a couple Kelbly Atlas tactical actions last year at our local PRS matches. Got caught in some flat out shit weather with sand, wind etc., and they performed perfect.

 

[redbullitt]

I finally caught the AI disease for similar reasons .... I have shot most and tried most before... I should have gotten the AI 10 years ago. Still have my Gap surgeons, DTA/Dtech... but the AI is a beast. Oh man, that barrel change too.

OP, I suggest you handle an AI AX if possible. They are very adjustable, and the ergos are superb. I'd never have thought that before using one... but it's true for me and I was a doubter. They are not as conventionally sexy as a manners stocked m40a4 etc in my head, but they just work and they do it over and over with quick swap barrels.

 

[SonicBurlap]

Yeah, the AI seems to be the "perfect" solution here since the OP posted he hikes up and down the mountains with his girlfriend and he wants something that still works when it gets dirty after all the AT or AX only come in at 12.8 or 13.7 lbs, empty mag, no scope or rings. LOL!!!!
Seriously, for a mountain rig that can handle dust here in the Rockies and on the plains as well as desert in neighboring states, Bighorn Arms TL3, or Origin, TriggerTech Special, PROOF Research Carbon Fiber Prefit, KRG Bravo, and you won't get a workout lugging the thing through the Wind River Range even with a full mag and optics.