Custom actions

[vanjansen]

I am just starting out in precision shooting and wanted to know if a custom action really improves accuracy over a factory action or is it a placebo?

Let know your thoughts. Also interested in personal experiences.

 

[OREGUN]

Neither. A custom might let you customize other things, might run better when dirty, might have more accessory options, might get you cool points with the crew, and may…if you are highly suggestible, provide a tiny placebo effect. Your confidence does matter. But a custom won’t make you a match winner either in its mechanics or by creating a placebo strong enough to matter.

I have big $$$$ customs and semi customized, over the counter actions, and bone stock guns and I can’t shoot “better” with one over the other. Fundamentals and strategy and practice. After that, your particular action is less important than you might be led to believe.

 

[vinniedelpino]

Are we talking practical accuracy? Or uber heavy bench guns?

The short answer is not enough to notice, if at all for our purposes. Custom actions have a bunch of other features that factory actions are lacking though. If you're going to true a factory action and add these features it usually works out to be about the same cost, or more expensive than an aftermarket action. There are a million threads on this.

I'll try to save you some trouble. If you're going with a factory action, Tikka probably gets the most love. It's not custom, but it's smooth and the trigger is great. Even better with a cheap spring swap. They're also uniform enough from action to action that you can get shouldered prefits. The mac bros stainless at $575 is a screaming deal. Next best for the money is probably a bighorn origin. The origin runs about $900 and takes savage prefits or shouldered prefits and has a swappable floating bolt head, which allows you to go from .223 through mag cartriges for another $125 plus barrel. Then you get into the $1k+ range with lots of great options.

If you're going super budget, maybe look at the howa 1500 barreled actions and throw it in a krg bravo.

Good luck.

 

[THEIS]

Hi,

Accuracy is best summed up as what takes place from the bolt face forward.

Reliability is best summed up as what takes place from the bolt lugs rearward.

Sincerely,
Theis

 

[vanjansen]

Thanks! Yeah I might have not phrased my question well. But you answered it anyway.

As I mentioned I am just starting out and the amount of information is sometimes overwhelming. Which makes it difficult getting straight answers to questions.

 

[Tokay444]

Just have to ask the questions you actually need answers to.

 

[vanjansen]

And there in lies the problem ...

 

[DownhillFromHere]

And there in lies the problem ...

Right. You don't know what the questions are yet.

As noted above, Tikka is the easy button. One of the T3X models in an aftermarket stock or chassis, or a T3X TAC A1 for a fully capable turnkey solution. Then, if you become fully addicted and want to go the custom route, Tikkas have good resale value. Problem is finding Tikkas right now.

You'll likely find decent accuracy in Ruger, Savage, or other lower-price offerings. Problem is, if you grow into the discipline, you'll outgrow them pretty quickly, and some have histories of breaking under high-throughput competition use, and resale... well, you didn't pay much for it to start with...

Bottom line is, accuracy per se won't be noticeably improved with a custom action over a good factory action. I started with a Tikka T3X TAC A1 in 6.5CM ad a T3X Varmint in .223 in an MDT chassis... both rifles were superbly smooth and accurate... and sold in a day when I decided to go custom. That decision was based on "I wanna go custom," not "custom will make me shoot better." Same reason I drove Porsche and BMW for a couple of decades... didn't need them, but I appreciated them.

 

[vanjansen]

Thanks. I appreciate you taking the time to respond. I am asking as I do have a Savage 12 FV (Cabelas) that I am using for F/TR. I put it in a MDT XRS stock and Diamond Back Tactical MRAD FFP scope. The scope was bought prematurely before I knew what I needed for F/TR. This is being replaced by a Golden Eagle that I found a deal on - and incidentally I am trading my Tikka T3 as part of the deal.

I would like to get into PRS and therefore I am starting to ask around for advice on what would be a good budget build. I am not against buying super high quality custom parts but have many priorities (5 kids) and for that reason I keep it slim on the budget side. I am a firm believer that technique and skill can to some measure overcome equipment advantages.

There is a caveat though ... Like with the scope - Some things you want to buy once and cry once LOL

 

[Milo 2.5]

I have said for yrs that every shooter at some point in their life should own a custom action. If you were to survey people who bought customs, an overwhelming majority would say it was the right decision.
More discerning owners of customs will recommend brands to buy, and ones they steer clear of.

Per your last post above, Spot On, no custom action will replace trigger time if ones goal is to improve. By all means, do what you can afford at the moment, no one wins maxing out credit cards.

 

[vanjansen]

Thanks Milo - I have several years left to shoot and as the kids start leaving the house I will definitely look into building that "dream rifle".

Most of my budget for the F/TR rifle is going into the glass
I have the savage action (Not the smoothest but for F/TR it works as we are slow firing one shot at a time)
There is also a match barrel on the way from a local barrel maker

All of these components most definitely performs better then I can. So biding my time and putting the money into components and learning all about precision shooting.

 

[gasrat]

IMO, and I have experience with it recently, because I had always wondered myself, is that I have a virgin 700 action that has not had one thing done to it aside from trigger replacement. It sports a 24" 1.250" Kreiger barrel and I ran 175's in it. The thing shoots lights out. I removed the barreled action and replaced it with a Defiance / Bartlein combination in Heavy Palma, also running 175's. For me, the factory actioned rifle shoots as good as the custom action rifle. The only difference, as others mentioned above, the custom action is smoother when operating, and is all around a better looking piece. Other than that, there isn't one ounce of accuracy difference between the two that I have found as of yet with my shooting ability using the two different setups. Personally, for me, I think accuracy is determined by the quality of the barrel you have. But that is just me.

 

[Marine52]

Factory actions are not made to the same tolerances as a custom quality action. Simple as that. more precise and closer tolerances translate to better accuracy.
You may get lucky and buy a factory rifle that shoots in one hole. I have one, they do exist.
if there was no accuracy benefit to custom actions then why do F-Class and Bench Rest guys put so much money into them.

 

[smoothy8500]

if there was no accuracy benefit to custom actions then why do F-Class and Bench Rest guys put so much money into them.

He is correct. Most people look at the barrel and chamber as key to accuracy, which is true for 99%. The F-class and bench rest are looking for the other factors that compromise the final 1%. One of those factors is how the bolt is supported in the receiver. A cocked trigger holds the rear of the bolt "up" in alignment with the chamber and back of the cartridge. Pulling the trigger releases the upward tension allowing the bolt to float or "drop" thus changing position.

How much does it affect accuracy? When records are measured in tenths and thousandth of an inch, yeah, it's important to them.

 

[Marine52]

He is correct. Most people look at the barrel and chamber as key to accuracy, which is true for 99%. The F-class and bench rest are looking for the other factors that compromise the final 1%. One of those factors is how the bolt is supported in the receiver. A cocked trigger holds the rear of the bolt "up" in alignment with the chamber and back of the cartridge. Pulling the trigger releases the upward tension allowing the bolt to float or "drop" thus changing position.

How much does it affect accuracy? When records are measured in tenths and thousandth of an inch, yeah, it's important to them.

I agree. The barrel is most important. I you have a top-notch custom action and a crappy barrel you will get bad results. If you have a top-notch cut-rifled barrel and a factory action it is possible to get very good results. If you want the ultimate in accuracy potential then you want a top-notch custom action and a cut-rifled barrel made by a company like Bartlein, Brux, Kreiger , etc.

 

[FjallJager]

I have only owned custom actions by American Rifle company and all of them are the Nucleus. I have played with Surgeons, Nesikas, Dakotas, Bighorns, McMillan G-Series, Kelbly, Barnard, Bat, Shilen (old ones and new ones) and a few others.

I have a Bighorn TL3 arriving on Friday.

A custom action absolutely matters in benchrest, probably matters in F-Class, and doesn't really matter in NRL/PRS. But everything matters in benchrest, and most things matter in F-Class. NRL/PRS is a wind and positional shooting game.

Used to shoot 1000 yard benchrest, Bat/Fly shoots in Australia and NRL in California, and military sniper matches in Europe.

I also have a slug of kids (only 4), and no time. So now hunting and shooting on my own are what I can get away with.

Shot F-Class with a rebarrled Tikka T3 for year, and I did ok.

You will see people with all kinds of action problems, even though it isn't a lot of shots.