Rifle Scopes Custom Ti Hardware for Spuhr Mount

[Obi-WanKannoli]

*UPDATE*

F/S Thread:

Optics - Custom Titanium Hardware for Spuhr Mounts

I recently put together some custom titanium hardware for my Spuhr mount, and after an overwhelmingly positive response from members of the community in that thread I've decided to offer a few sets for sale. Here is the thread for more information...

www.snipershide.com

Hi all,

I am in the process of building a new hunting rifle, and will be using Titanium hardware through out as I am neurotic and rusting hardware drives me insane. I also abuse my stuff quite a bit...great combo.

Anyway, I ordered up a bunch of hardware in Titanium from Ti64 in Texas and RaceTi in England for my rifle, stock, and optic. Wanted to share the optic stuff since I am done with it.

The Spuhr rings use a non standard screw, so I needed to turn all the heads down on a lathe:

An added benefit of this, which many Spuhr owners will appreciate, is the deeper bit depth in the screw head:

The attachments work with standard M4 x 10 countersunk screws:

The cross bolts I decided to go from a bolt and washer to a flanged bolt from RaceTi:

Here are the final pics:

 

[overmatch]

Great finished product. Glad to see I'm not the only one who dislikes rusty hardware. Think it would be possible to source / fabricate Ti Mlok mounting hardware? It's the only stuff that seems to constantly rust no matter how closely I keep an eye on it.

 

[Bacarrat]

You can make millions selling upgraded hardware for Spuhr mounts.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

Great finished product. Glad to see I'm not the only one who dislikes rusty hardware. Think it would be possible to source / fabricate Ti Mlok mounting hardware? It's the only stuff that seems to constantly rust no matter how closely I keep an eye on it.

Thanks! Yeah, it drives me insane for sure.

Definitely doable. I did look myself a while back and couldn't find the T-Nuts manufactured by anyone in Ti, but the T-Nut dimensions are readily available online and any competent machine shop should be able to make you them. The #10-24 screws in Titanium can be found all over the internet.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

You can make millions selling upgraded hardware for Spuhr mounts.

Haha yeah maybe! I don't think many people would be in line for what it would cost. I'd have to charge, quick math, about $80 a set for ring screws and cross bolts for it to be worth my time and even then it's a pretty pitiful profit.

 

[Chris1972]

I think people who buy Spuhr would pay the $80.

I do have concern about eliminating the washer on the cross bolt. The friction between the aluminum and titanium may become an issue if it’s removed very often at the torque spec required. Just a thought.

Either way that looks great. If you decide to mass produce put me in line. With a washer please. Lol

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

I think people who buy Spuhr would pay the $80.

I do have concern about eliminating the washer on the cross bolt. The friction between the aluminum and titanium may become an issue if it’s removed very often at the torque spec required. Just a thought.

Either way that looks great. If you decide to mass produce put me in line. With a washer please. Lol

Yeah you may be right! I'll shop around and see what I can find for US or UK made suppliers. I refuse to buy from China, even if they are $0.50 each...

It's a fair point, but given there is no anti rotation or 'biting' component to the fastener if anything there may be marring on the surface. I'll follow up here once install and remove from a rail at torque a few times.

To be candid, a big driving factor for me on that choice was that an M5x35 T25 button head bolt is, from what I found, unavailable or generally a built to order item in Titanium with large MOQ's...I didn't need 40+ of them lol. Again, unless you buy <$2 / ea Chinese hardware...

I'll do some supplier evaluation this weekend, if I can make it cheap enough I'll let you know!

 

[TheOE800]

An added benefit of this, which many Spuhr owners will appreciate, is the deeper bit depth in the screw head:

I don’t understand how more people don’t complain about this.

You can make millions selling upgraded hardware for Spuhr mounts.

Right?

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

I don’t understand how more people don’t complain about this.

Right?

I mean it's ridiculous, idk what they were thinking with that hardware choice personally. I get it that they don't need much torque but God are they easy to damage.

 

[Kiba]

I must have got all the good screws from spuhr, but all their shittiest clamp bars. I've never even come close to rounding one of their screws (even the old button head clamp bar screws with really shallow torx recesses, even shallower than the current cheese head clamp bar screws) but I've broken 5 clamp bars between 11 mounts.

If your torx bit has a radius or chamfer on the very tip that means it will have minimal engagement with the shallow spuhr hardware, you need to grind the radius/chamfer portion off the nose of your torx bit so it has full engagement into the screw head.

 

[Bacarrat]

I must have got all the good screws from spuhr, but all their shittiest clamp bars. I've never even come close to rounding one of their screws (even the old button head clamp bar screws with really shallow torx recesses, even shallower than the current cheese head clamp bar screws) but I've broken 5 clamp bars between 11 mounts.

If your torx bit has a radius or chamfer on the very tip that means it will have minimal engagement with the shallow spuhr hardware, you need to grind the radius/chamfer portion off the nose of your torx bit so it has full engagement into the screw head.

It's a pretty well known fact that Spuhr comes with some of the shittiest torx screws known to exist. It's so bad, I believe they include extras in their mounts now. I haven't bought one in years since last time I wanted some new screws and they were charging 25 bucks plus shipping. I don't know how many of my friends Spuhrs have at least 1 stripped screw on their mount.

 

[Nik H]

Haha yeah maybe! I don't think many people would be in line for what it would cost. I'd have to charge, quick math, about $80 a set for ring screws and cross bolts for it to be worth my time and even then it's a pretty pitiful profit.

I'd pay you $100 for a set.

I have stripped a few cross bolt screws in my time. MHS told me that the metal is purposefully made soft to ensure they are not over torqued and that they don't snap when extracting and cause a larger problem.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

Yeah the stock hardware is a disaster. No hardware should dictate you taking your tools to a belt sander and there is something called a torque spec to prevent over torque!! Most things will indeed snap, sheer, bend, etc. if you're calling the torque spec RFT or 2 ugga dugga's.

I am going to call some suppliers this weekend for hardware and with my father (40 year aerospace engineer working solely with 3 letter spooky agencies for stuff in space) develop a torque spec for the titanium hardware based on the clamping force required. We'll work that out backwards from the stock hardware and torque specs. I'll follow up with you all then and let you know if maybe I'll do a small run of these or something for guys on the hide.

 

[srt-4_uk]

ITT: How to milk sheep

 

[Howell Motorsports]

I would love to be a customer for 4 sets... 100.00 each set

 

[Rodder]

Would this also work for the hunting 1pc mounts? I'd take a set as well if that's the case.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

I would love to be a customer for 4 sets... 100.00 each set

If I end up doing it I will certainly reach out. Thank you all for the interest!

Would this also work for the hunting 1pc mounts? I'd take a set as well if that's the case.

The ring screws are the same so yes on those, I can get whatever length cross bolts are needed too. Not sure that they are the same 35mm bolts, but I'll do some digging and follow up. Either way, possibly different but definitely doable.

 

[Nik H]

If I end up doing it I will certainly reach out. Thank you all for the interest!


The ring screws are the same so yes on those, I can get whatever length cross bolts are needed too. Not sure that they are the same 35mm bolts, but I'll do some digging and follow up. Either way, possibly different but definitely doable.

I believe the cross bolts are different lengths. When I called to order a spare couple for my 36mm mount from MHS, they needed to know which mount I had to send me the proper length

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

I believe the cross bolts are different lengths. When I called to order a spare couple for my 36mm mount from MHS, they needed to know which mount I had to send me the proper length

Yep, you are correct. I just looked at the images. They are definitely way shorter. What part number is your mount? The Spuhr website is pretty good with listing what hardware fits each model.

 

[Nik H]

Yep, you are correct. I just looked at the images. They are definitely way shorter. What part number is your mount? The Spuhr website is pretty good with listing what hardware fits each model.

I have an SP-6002

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

I have an SP-6002

Okay, I am just going to contact Spuhr and get an exact size.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

Update:

1) Reached out to some suppliers today for MOQ's and bulk prices. Going to see how low I can get these for those interested.

2) We ran all the specs through my father's Torque Spec Calculator from work and after pouring over material values for clamp force, Youngs Modulus, yield strength, ultimate strength, etc. we arrived at the conclusion that the lubricated, nominal torque specs between both the ring screws and cross bolts should remain unchanged between the grade 10.9 steel from Spuhr and the Grade 5 6Al-4V Titanium. At the factory torque specs of 15-25 inch pounds on the rings and 45 inch pounds on the cross bolts, the titanium is at about 40% of yield strength while the steel is at about 50% of yield strength.

Some pro's for titanium fasteners in this application:

1) lower weight
2) better corrosion resistance
3) less galvanic corrosion between titanium and aluminum compared to steel and aluminum.
4) More consistent pre-load. Because titanium is of a higher yield strength and lower Youngs Modulus compared to the steel in question, it will absorb more displacement (can elongate more, think of the screw as a spring) without the pre load changing. Pre load will vary under stress in any fastener, but far less in titanium compared to steel. Here that means less change in preload or opportunity for loosening as a result of recoil and vibration.

Cons:

1) this stuff ain't cheap.

 

[Rodder]

So my hunting model is the SCT-3001D. It does look like the base mounts are narrower but that makes sense with it being direct mount.

I'd still be in for a set if you were able to make the right length bolts.

 

[Nik H]

Update:

1) Reached out to some suppliers today for MOQ's and bulk prices. Going to see how low I can get these for those interested.

2) We ran all the specs through my father's Torque Spec Calculator from work and after pouring over material values for clamp force, Youngs Modulus, yield strength, ultimate strength, etc. we arrived at the conclusion that the lubricated, nominal torque specs between both the ring screws and cross bolts should remain unchanged between the grade 10.9 steel from Spuhr and the Grade 5 6Al-4V Titanium. At the factory torque specs of 15-25 inch pounds on the rings and 45 inch pounds on the cross bolts, the titanium is at about 40% of yield strength while the steel is at about 50% of yield strength.

Some pro's for titanium fasteners in this application:

1) lower weight
2) better corrosion resistance
3) less galvanic corrosion between titanium and aluminum compared to steel and aluminum.
4) More consistent pre-load. Because titanium is of a higher yield strength and lower Youngs Modulus compared to the steel in question, it will absorb more displacement (can elongate more, think of the screw as a spring) without the pre load changing. Pre load will vary under stress in any fastener, but far less in titanium compared to steel. Here that means less change in preload or opportunity for loosening as a result of recoil and vibration.

Cons:

1) this stuff ain't cheap.

I have yet to see any quality product in this hobby be cheap

 

[Glassaholic]

I have yet to see any quality product in this hobby be cheap

HopticUSA's saddle blankets are pretty cheap and they're quality

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

So my hunting model is the SCT-3001D. It does look like the base mounts are narrower but that makes sense with it being direct mount.

I'd still be in for a set if you were able to make the right length bolts.

Yessir, those have a bit of a different mounting system. The bolts pull a clamp on an angle upward into the mount against the rail. They are a little bit shorter as well. Regardless, I don't see why I can't supply that so long as I have the bolt specs and head diameter to cut them (if needed). I shall keep you posted!

I have yet to see any quality product in this hobby be cheap

True. I guess when you put it into perspective that you're putting this hardware into a $400 mount that holds potentially a $3-5,000 optic on potentially a $3-10,000 rifle its not so bad!

 

[Nik H]

HopticUSA's saddle blankets are pretty cheap and they're quality

Granted…I use them. Their quivers are pretty reasonable as well

 

[91Eunozs]

Nice!

When I was into mountain bikes, one of my buddies made the comment that my race bike “had more titanium bits than the Air Force”…. LoL.

Big fan of upgraded fasteners, and a bit envious of what you’ve accomplished with your setup! Well done.

Have you considered nitriding or anodizing (can you anodize titanium?) the fasteners black?

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

Nice!

When I was into mountain bikes, one of my buddies made the comment that my race bike “had more titanium bits than the Air Force”…. LoL.

Big fan of upgraded fasteners, and a bit envious of what you’ve accomplished with your setup! Well done.

Have you considered nitriding or anodizing (can you anodize titanium?) the fasteners black?

Haha I know exactly what you're talking about, had a coworker who used to mountain bike. Quite a bit of Ti on those!

Thank you very much, I appreciate it. May start making these for guys on the hide.

I was just going to leave mine in the white personally, but it's super easy to annodize titanium most colors. All you need is some battery's, baking soda, water, cables, and tinfoil. Color is dependent upon voltage applied, a lot of hobbyists at home achieve this by linking up 9 volts like Legos. All that said, I believe black requires a unique process.

Here's a good resource for it:

Anodized titanium color chart 9 thru 90 volts

Aloha O-community. Some of you know I've been anodizing. But when I first researching things, I noticed I could never find a comprehensive chart showing 'ALL' the colors. After doing this, I now understand why. Some colors, like all those in the 30 volt range, look similar to one another. Some...

www.oakleyforum.com

Not sure what the process entails totally, but it would seem you can achieve black annodizing by adding manganese phosphate into the mix:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0026057605804179

 

[Nik H]

Keep us posted on your decision @Obi-WanKannoli

 

[LeftyJason]

Nice!

When I was into mountain bikes, one of my buddies made the comment that my race bike “had more titanium bits than the Air Force”…. LoL.

Big fan of upgraded fasteners, and a bit envious of what you’ve accomplished with your setup! Well done.

Have you considered nitriding or anodizing (can you anodize titanium?) the fasteners black?

These are all possible as well.

 

[Glassaholic]

Nice!

When I was into mountain bikes, one of my buddies made the comment that my race bike “had more titanium bits than the Air Force”…. LoL.

SR-71 was made out of almost all titanium surface panels, they did this for its heat resistance at speed. What's funny is most of the titanium that Lockheed purchased was from Russia at the time, so in essence Russia supplied the material for the greatest spy jet that ever existed.

Big fan of upgraded fasteners, and a bit envious of what you’ve accomplished with your setup! Well done.

Agreed

Have you considered nitriding or anodizing (can you anodize titanium?) the fasteners black?

Brilliant idea.

Not sure what the process entails totally, but it would seem you can achieve black annodizing by adding manganese phosphate into the mix:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0026057605804179

What you've done here is pretty slick and you can see a lot of interest from the community, just hurry up and do it before Spuhr catches wind of this and starts offering them (likely not going to happen anytime soon though).

 

[91Eunozs]

What @Glassaholic said …. I’m in for a set

 

[giumau1]

In for two kits (sp-6001 mounts) : 5 cross bolts each, 12 ring screws each, two attachment screws each.
Maybe a ‘spare kit’ of one item per type would be nice to have too.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

Heard back today and got some MOQ's for bulk orders from the supplier in the US I'd like to work with. They are Grade 5 Ti-Al6-V4 rolled thread screws. Rolled is important, drastically reduces chances of galling. I am going to tally up what's in this thread so far and get an order in to do a run for those that have been interested. I'll renew my SH supporter status and post a F/S thread.

 

[91Eunozs]

So for my SP 3001, I’d need:

12 x ring screws
5 x cross bolts

Looks like my mount uses M5x35mm cross bolts: https://spuhrwebshop.com/en/isms/sp...lubricant film to ensure proper torque values.

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

So for my SP 3001, I’d need:

12 x ring screws
5 x cross bolts

Looks like my mount uses M5x35mm cross bolts: https://spuhrwebshop.com/en/isms/sp/30/0-mil/sp-3001.html#:~:text=M5x35 Torx 20 screws for the side clamp,dry lubricant film to ensure proper torque values.


View attachment 8111921

View attachment 8111920

Thanks for the heads up! If anyone else wants to post in here what they need (quantity of mounts / models) it would be helpful.

Again, for the mods, I will resume my supporter status and post an F/S thread in the px.

 

[91Eunozs]

Please link to the FS post here … watching this thread

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

@overmatch , @91Eunozs , @giumau1 , @Nik H , @Glassaholic , @Rodder , @Howell Motorsports , @Cberndt , @Bacarrat and any others interested;

Would you prefer the flanged bolt or washer and bolt for the cross bolts? I personally prefer the flanged bolt, but want to know what the preference may be prior to placing a bulk order for hardware. Thanks all.

 

[91Eunozs]

@overmatch , @91Eunozs , @giumau1 , @Nik H , @Glassaholic , @Rodder , @Howell Motorsports , @Cberndt , @Bacarrat and any others interested;

Would you prefer the flanged bolt or washer and bolt for the cross bolts? I personally prefer the flanged bolt, but want to know what the preference may be prior to placing a bulk order for hardware. Thanks all.

Flanged bolt for sure

 

[Chris1972]

Washers for me but I will go with the consensus. I see no need to complicate things.

 

[Nik H]

@overmatch , @91Eunozs , @giumau1 , @Nik H , @Glassaholic , @Rodder , @Howell Motorsports , @Cberndt , @Bacarrat and any others interested;

Would you prefer the flanged bolt or washer and bolt for the cross bolts? I personally prefer the flanged bolt, but want to know what the preference may be prior to placing a bulk order for hardware. Thanks all.

Flanged bolt for me

I have a Spuhr SP-6002. It has 4 cross bolts and 12 ring screws

I'd like two sets

 

[Nik H]

Thanks for the heads up! If anyone else wants to post in here what they need (quantity of mounts / models) it would be helpful.

Again, for the mods, I will resume my supporter status and post an F/S thread in the px.

Please link here

 

[Holliday]

A set with 1-2 extra cross bolts and 2 extra cap bolts would be nice. Spares, in case down the road you no longer make them.

 

[TheOfficeT-Rex]

I'd be in for a set for an SP-4006, prefer washers but wouldn't turn down the flanged bolt.

 

[NiteQwill]

I'd be highly interested, given pricing

I have a few mounts...

4601 (12 ring / 5 clamp)
4601 (12 ring / 5 clamp)
4602C (10 ring / 4 clamp)

 

[giumau1]

@overmatch , @91Eunozs , @giumau1 , @Nik H , @Glassaholic , @Rodder , @Howell Motorsports , @Cberndt , @Bacarrat and any others interested;

Would you prefer the flanged bolt or washer and bolt for the cross bolts? I personally prefer the flanged bolt, but want to know what the preference may be prior to placing a bulk order for hardware. Thanks all.

Flanged bolt is my preference Thank you @Obi-WanKannoli!

 

[Glassaholic]

@overmatch , @91Eunozs , @giumau1 , @Nik H , @Glassaholic , @Rodder , @Howell Motorsports , @Cberndt , @Bacarrat and any others interested;

Would you prefer the flanged bolt or washer and bolt for the cross bolts? I personally prefer the flanged bolt, but want to know what the preference may be prior to placing a bulk order for hardware. Thanks all.

I actually have QD mount, so I do not need cross bolts, just ring bolts.

 

[Rodder]

I'd prefer flanged but I'm easy. Looks like my Tikka direct mount only has 3 cross bolts but id definitely take extras, same with the ring screws

 

[Obi-WanKannoli]

I'd prefer flanged but I'm easy. Looks like my Tikka direct mount only has 3 cross bolts but id definitely take extras, same with the ring screws

Can you send me a picture of this mount? The cross bolts may be shorter if it isn't for pic rail.