I have a CZ 455 in a Manners stock. Torque is set at 35lbs for front & rear. It will commonly shoot 1” at 100. It was due for a thorough cleaning so it was taken down, cleaned & put back together. Nothing changed. My 50 yard zero was off 1/10. Elevation was good. Shot decent groups at 50. Took it out to 100 & it went to shit. It now throws 1-2 fliers (out 1” or more) out of 10 rounds. SK Standard + is what it likes. I tried SK Match & Lapua Center X and got the same result. I’m at a loss what happened.
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CZ 455 Throwing Fliers
- Thread starter SgtJKM
- Start date
How many rounds before you cleaned it and how many rounds did you put through it after cleaning it when you decided it was throwing fliers?
How well did you clean it?
+1 how many rounds before you cleaned it?
I had this happen to me once. I had probably 2500 rounds in my barrel, and did a not very thorough cleaning job, which left me with a very unevenly cleaned bore. Thus flyers. Took me almost 300 rounds to get it back on track.
Next time I cleaned it properly... Boretech Rimfire Blend, soak/leave in for 15min.
Shot great within 5-10 rounds.
Whenever my 455 has does this, there's been lead in the barrel.
I soak a nylon brush with a 50/50 mix of hoppes #9 and Kroil. Let it set for 10-15 minutes, then push a very tight patch through the bore, and look at the patch.
If it looks like it has tiny bits of silver on it, it's lead. I will then repeat the above process until I don't see any lead on the patch. After doing this, my rifle may take 5-10 rounds before the groups tighten back up.
If the bore is really leaded, soak the bore with Kroil overnight. It's a penetrating oil and gets under the lead and lifts it off. And use a tight patch, one that is real hard to push down the barrel.
I soak a nylon brush with a 50/50 mix of hoppes #9 and Kroil. Let it set for 10-15 minutes, then push a very tight patch through the bore, and look at the patch.
If it looks like it has tiny bits of silver on it, it's lead. I will then repeat the above process until I don't see any lead on the patch. After doing this, my rifle may take 5-10 rounds before the groups tighten back up.
If the bore is really leaded, soak the bore with Kroil overnight. It's a penetrating oil and gets under the lead and lifts it off. And use a tight patch, one that is real hard to push down the barrel.
Apologies for the late response. Been radio silent for a few days. I recently cleaned the entire rifle since it had been some time (approximately 2000 rounds) since it's last cleaning.
I tried playing with torque settings yesterday and did not notice any measurable improvement. It still throws 1-2 fliers in each 10 shot group.
I will go back and take a look at possibly "re-cleaning" the barrel. Maybe theirs something I missed. Appreciate your input.
It did not. I check that each time it comes out of the stock for cleaning/maintenance.
I should had clarified on the torque setting as well. The barrel torque is one thing, I'm still using a wooden stock, but there were a lot of guys screwing with different torque settings on the stock screws as well. 15-24 on stock, 30-35 on barrel. I spent hours plundering Rimfire Central and I think I settled on 20 and 30. Supposedly and it makes sense, if you over torque barrel, you'll obturate the chamber.
Also have you tried using a HDY rim thickness gauge and tried sorting just for giggles to see if maybe the headspace may be an issue?
One other thing, are you using a bipod or shooting off a benchrest top, like a SEB, Sinclair etc. I was trying to dial in a new gun last weekend and almost turned my Harris into an Air Force bipod, making it fly. Don't have a pic rail on that particular gun so I can't currently use my Atlas on it and I kept fighting with the pod lock and legs spinning.
Also have you tried using a HDY rim thickness gauge and tried sorting just for giggles to see if maybe the headspace may be an issue?
One other thing, are you using a bipod or shooting off a benchrest top, like a SEB, Sinclair etc. I was trying to dial in a new gun last weekend and almost turned my Harris into an Air Force bipod, making it fly. Don't have a pic rail on that particular gun so I can't currently use my Atlas on it and I kept fighting with the pod lock and legs spinning.
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Does it throw the first few shots or the last or is it random.
First or last may be the magazine. May have assembled trigger differently. Random shots thrown can be from the lot of ammo.
Just a few thoughts.
First or last may be the magazine. May have assembled trigger differently. Random shots thrown can be from the lot of ammo.
Just a few thoughts.
Does it throw fliers with a warm barrel? My 455 doesn't like cold weather. And if I don't pull a snake through it every 200-300 rounds it kinda opens up.
Interesting you mention that. It has been pretty cold in Missouri now for a few months and the rifle was shooting better in the warm weather. I will have to experiment with this. Thanks!
Hope that's all it is. Ammo stays in my pocket and if it's real cold usually takes 2 rounds to get it "driving tacks"
That is one thing I do is keep the ammo at room temperature until it's ready to be fired but the rifle stays outside the whole time.
It sure sounds like fowling of some sort. The cleaning part is what changed. It can sometimes take days to really clean a barrel depending on condition.
One thing I am sure of is that the barrel was thoroughly cleaned from end to end
Did you use Kroil in it?
The last time I took my 455 to the range it wasn't shooting as good as it normally does. I ran a tight patch through it and it did better for a few stings then soured again. I patched it again and there was lead on the patch again. I brushed the bore with a nylon brush soaked in Hoopes #9 and Kroil and let it set for awhile, then a tight patch and there was lead on the patch again. I ran a real wet patch through it as let the rifle set for a day, then ran a tight patch with Kroil on it and got a big piece of lead out of it. I need to run the bore scope through it but I expect it's leading up from a burr when CZ cut the chamber/throat area.
And out of all my 22 rifles, this CZ is the most temperamental whenever the temperatures drop below 50.
The bore is squeaky clean. It had just a bit of leading in the first inch or so of the chamber area. I cleaned it then ran a bore scope through it just to be sure I got everything and also ensure there were no visible issues in the barrel. The barrel has no hot spots, rough machining marks or anything that would say "this is what's causing your issue". I use the Kroil and Hoppes also but with a small patch wrapped around a brush. Usually 5 passes brightens things up and gets the barrel super clean.
What part of Missouri do you live in?
I'm in central MO. about 25 miles from Columbia.
I'll be shooting on Monday when the temps are over 50.
I'm in central MO. about 25 miles from Columbia.
I'll be shooting on Monday when the temps are over 50.
Bench Rest Rifle Club of St Louis (Wright City, MO) is where I shoot.
Don't ignore the firing pin assembly. Once that gets dirty you will get inconsistent ignition and velocity fluctuations.
I'm curious where the flyers are going. If they are any which way or high and low. Obviously high low can be associated with velocity.
Are you running a chronograph and keeping track of velocity spreads?
Of the ammo the OP noted, none of them did particularly well over the chronograph during our recent testing.
I would see about Eley Force or RWS pistol match if you can find it. Both did well in my testing for both good groups and low velocity spreads.
Also keep in mind the weather this time of year. 22LR is finicky about temperature changes and some ammo does fine in the summer but not so good in the cold. Keeping it in your pocket may be part of the problem because the ammo temp changes rapidly once you pull it out.
One more suggestion... If it isnt shooting well when clean, then that is actually quite normal for a 22. Maybe you just need to keep shooting to season the bore until it settles down.
Think about the coefficient of friction between the lead and a clean barrel, vs between lead and a leaded up barrel. Lead to lead is more greasy right. Sometimes too clean a barrel is the problem.... But easily fixed by more rounds down the pipe.
If you trace the problem back to too clean, then don't clean it quite so well next time.
I'm curious where the flyers are going. If they are any which way or high and low. Obviously high low can be associated with velocity.
Are you running a chronograph and keeping track of velocity spreads?
Of the ammo the OP noted, none of them did particularly well over the chronograph during our recent testing.
I would see about Eley Force or RWS pistol match if you can find it. Both did well in my testing for both good groups and low velocity spreads.
Also keep in mind the weather this time of year. 22LR is finicky about temperature changes and some ammo does fine in the summer but not so good in the cold. Keeping it in your pocket may be part of the problem because the ammo temp changes rapidly once you pull it out.
One more suggestion... If it isnt shooting well when clean, then that is actually quite normal for a 22. Maybe you just need to keep shooting to season the bore until it settles down.
Think about the coefficient of friction between the lead and a clean barrel, vs between lead and a leaded up barrel. Lead to lead is more greasy right. Sometimes too clean a barrel is the problem.... But easily fixed by more rounds down the pipe.
If you trace the problem back to too clean, then don't clean it quite so well next time.
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