CZ 455 Varmint vs Savage Accu MK2 bull barrel

[Lager]

What Im using these rifles for is for 50 yard bench rest competitions and Im looking for the most accurate and Im confused.
I sold my Savage because I heard that the CZ was more accurate. The shooter I need to beat at my local 50 yard bench rest comp uses a CZ 452 Varmint.So ,I bought a new 455 that has been fitted with the Boyds tacticool stock and the receiver has been bedded already from the original buyer.
But, I have noticed? When compared side by side , the Savage will actually out shoot the CZ. Not by much, but enough to realize I sold the wrong rifle to buy a more expensive one.
I have the option to buy back my Savage for what I sold it for.But, Im still thinking Im doing something wrong with with either my hold or rest setup and holding it back from what its capable of.
From what I read, everyone says the CZ is better then the Savage, lots better. But, Im not seeing it.
Ive kept everything the same between both rifles, from ammo( Both like Wolf match extra the best) to the scope and the rest.
So, do I buy my Savage back or try and make this CZ work, somehow.

 

[justin amateur]

I've found that bedding the first third of the barrel produced noticeable improvement
in accuracy on all 3 barrel calibers of my 455 varmint. My 455 American with a Lilja sporter barrel
likes the barrel to be fully bedded from the receiver to the end of the stock. I'm pretty sure the
improvement is due to the elimination of stock flex.

 

[usmcchet9296]

the barrel isn't seasoned yet ...you need to break it in

 

[ejk]

Have you experimented with action screw torque settings ? What about the trigger ,does it still have the stock spring ? Even pillared and bedded mine I found a sweet spot by experimenting with action screw torque .I changed out the stock trigger spring for a lighter one and can adjust down to 1lb up to 1.5 lb with no bump fires . I also removed the barrel an made sure the opening in the receiver was clean and free of any burrs and remounted and torqued it to 40 in lbs . Mine is a Varmint with the barrel bedded first 3in from the receiver and rest is fully floated . At 50 yrds it will shoot groups smaller than a dime if I do my part with Wolf match . My factory barrel came with a nice crown . Some have had crown issues on the 455's .

 

[justin amateur]

the barrel isn't seasoned yet ...you need to break it in

Very true, the "2 brick" rule for typical mass produced barrels.
It'll take about 1000 rounds down the bore to polish out and fill the imperfections
left by the machining process in the manufacturing of the barrel.

 

[nnn66]

I had a CZ455 that was a very sweet shooter with both cheap ammo and high quality ammo. I returned it to CZ because of the recall on the SST trigger and bought an Anschutz 1710DHB. Having had the Anschutz for several weeks now, I can say that the CZ was very close in performance. The Anschutz will slightly better the CZ with top notch ammo, but the CZ outperformed the Anschutz with cheap ammo. I am happy with the Anschutz, but it sure was nice to get excellent results with cheap ammo, so I'm sorta kicking myself for letting that CZ go. I would give that rifle a chance. I can't imagine that you could go wrong with a 455.

 

[ivanthesane]

CZs have a nicer fit/finish and wood... and the name behind them. On the other hand, Savage has spots of QC issues. Assuming the QC dept is awake and working properly, Savage and CZ will be fairly equal. Get the Savage, spend your savings on good glass and quality ammo.

 

[Lager]

Interesting ideas from everyone and I thank you for your replies.
Member USM, you talk about seasoning? While I have only about 600 rounds thru the barrel. It actually shot better when it was brand new, its actually degraded since then. Go figure?
Member EJK,Yes I have done some trigger work to reduce the creep and amount of pull weight. It really didnt help anything.The original trigger on the 455 really wasnt all that bad.I did it anyways just fior fun and I like tinkering.Shooting groups dime size is pretty darn good, but I need to reduce that. I take that back, I need to reduce the 1 inch flyer that happens too often to compete. One of the gents I shoot with has a 452 varmint, he hits 3/8 inch 96 times out of 100. He dosent practice, he knows nothing about rifles. He is the guy down the street from you that just shows up at a match and cleans my clock.Ive tried different torque on the screws from very loose to very tight.Made no difference in group sizes in my bedded action. Guess this means the bedding was successful.
Member Ivan,Im very tempted to repurchase my Savage at this time. I think, out of the box they are comparable.Meaning the Savage is a heck of a good shooter for less money.But I think im going to stick with the CZ because of the upgrades available.That and knowing Im doing something wrong..
Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

 

[justin amateur]

I too was going to blame the barrel on my 455 Varmint, when it slung flyers, even with match grade 22lr ammo.
But before I did that, I first proved it wasn't the barrel and needed to look elsewhere for the problem. How?
I put together a testing device to determine just how accurate the barrel really was at 50 yards.

I ran 8 varieties of ammo through the locked down barrel, the results? The cheaper the ammo the more flyers.
The top 3 for accuracy were Tenex, Midas+ and RWS R50. No problem producing moa or sub-moa at 50 yards.
At the time Wolf ME (fall 2012 order) was very consistent. But now, the last 4 bricks of ME I received in October
this year have been slinging flyers, 5 or more out of every box. Once I proved it wasn't the barrel,
it was easy enough to hunt down the problem and solve it.

 

[2guard]

another vote for checking the crown. I don't know about the cz, but a lot of the savage rimfire guys have had their barrels recrowned and have improved accuracy. biggest increase I saw (after making sure the barrel was floated on whatever stock I had), was a good trigger and good ammo. All of the savage rimfires (and all of the savages I have owned for that matter) have had the trigger replaced with the rifle basix version. My barrels did get better after a few hundred rounds, but not to a point where it was a huge difference, just noticeable.
If you want better groups, I would purchase an older Anschutz 54 off gunbroker if you don't mind a single shot. I have seen them go regularly in the $550-700 range. Factory Anschutz trigger will be better and it should be more accurate than the cz or savage. If you decide to get rid of the cz, I wouldn't buy another savage and put a lot of money into it (stock, trigger, bedding, etc) unless you just want a repeater. I keep a savage fv (rifle basix trigger, 1/8 bottom metal, better stock) because I wanted a repeater, but it will be replaced with an Anschutz 64mpr in the future.

right now I shoot a mid-80s walther for 50yd bench and it will shoot much better than I can. It likes r50 and shoots in the .1s when I do my part. this group from my last time out with it 2 weeks ago and is just over 3/16" edge to edge. None of my savage rimfires ever shot this good, they were usually between 1/2 and 3/4" with a few occasional groups under 1/2". I shot lapua center-x through my savages, so it was with good ammo (although it doesn't shoot as well as the r50 from the walther).
5 shots @ 50yds

 

[VTSEAL]

You violated the 7th Law of Rifle Ballistics, which states: In order for Rifle Y to outshoot Rifle X, they must both be in your possession simultaneously.

Your procedure:
Step 1) Sell Rifle X to so that you can justify/afford the purchase of Rifle Y; with expectation that Rifle Y will shoot better than Rifle X.
Step 2) Buy Rifle Y.
Step 3) Shoot Rifle Y.
Step 4) Wish you still had Rifle X.

Proper Procedure under 7th Law of Rifle Ballistics:
Step 1) Want a rifle that outperforms Rifle X.
Step 2) Consider selling Rifle X to justify/afford Rifle Y.
Step 3) Decide to wait to sell Rifle X until you actually see how well Rifle Y performs. Clearly state intention to sell Rifle X after Y proves the better rifle.
Step 4) Buy Rifle Y.
Step 5) Shoot Rifle Y. Note that at this time Rifle Y should outperform Rifle X, in accordance with the 7th Law.
Step 6) Decide it is best to keep Rifle X anyway, because who can't use a good backup rifle. Besides, that will keep Rifle Y honest.

STRONG WORD OF WARNING: This procedure may seem like a good idea to try with girlfriends/wives; but I can assure you from experience that either: 1) acquiring Y before ending association with X; or 2) trying to keep both X and Y at the same time, can result in a HAZARDOUS CONDITION

 

[Merlin O]

You violated the 7th Law of Rifle Ballistics, which states: In order for Rifle Y to outshoot Rifle X, they must both be in your possession simultaneously.

Your procedure:
Step 1) Sell Rifle X to so that you can justify/afford the purchase of Rifle Y; with expectation that Rifle Y will shoot better than Rifle X.
Step 2) Buy Rifle Y.
Step 3) Shoot Rifle Y.
Step 4) Wish you still had Rifle X.

Proper Procedure under 7th Law of Rifle Ballistics:
Step 1) Want a rifle that outperforms Rifle X.
Step 2) Consider selling Rifle X to justify/afford Rifle Y.
Step 3) Decide to wait to sell Rifle X until you actually see how well Rifle Y performs. Clearly state intention to sell Rifle X after Y proves the better rifle.
Step 4) Buy Rifle Y.
Step 5) Shoot Rifle Y. Note that at this time Rifle Y should outperform Rifle X, in accordance with the 7th Law.
Step 6) Decide it is best to keep Rifle X anyway, because who can't use a good backup rifle. Besides, that will keep Rifle Y honest.

STRONG WORD OF WARNING: This procedure may seem like a good idea to try with girlfriends/wives; but I can assure you from experience that either: 1) acquiring Y before ending association with X; or 2) trying to keep both X and Y at the same time, can result in a HAZARDOUS CONDITION

Wisdom speaks.

 

[peaceatwar]

What torque settings are you guys using for a savage mark ii. I just got mine threaded so I had to remove it from the stock and now my groups have opened up ever so slightly. I think it may be due to over torqueing as the damn thing was barely in there before.

 

[ivanthesane]

What torque settings are you guys using for a savage mark ii. I just got mine threaded so I had to remove it from the stock and now my groups have opened up ever so slightly. I think it may be due to over torqueing as the damn thing was barely in there before.

factory spec is 15 inch pounds

WIth the thick bottom metal, you may be able to go more without crusing the wood laminate underneath... when I put my 93fv in a BTV stock I thought about adding pillars since the front isn't even really supported by anything.

 

[ACPjunkie]

I would be happy to trade you my Savage Mk2 for your CZ lol

 

[Lager]

Truly some great responses and included free of charge was a life lesson provided by member VTSEAL. Got a good laugh over that one.
Since I posted this thread, Ive been doing a lot of reading. Ive learned about frequency/ harmonics, holds, rests, follow thru and I realized that Ive been doing everything wrong because I really dont know what I am doing.
The Savage is a good shooter, but what makes me realize that the CZ can be a really good shooter for the money is this.Sometimes I can place 5 rounds thru one little hole using the CZ. The Savage, could not, close but no cigar. The great repeat shots Ive noticed were using the same target and not needing a readjust of the rifle from one target to the next.Thats where my technique or the lack of, is what is holding back the CZ from being a really great shooter.Thnking thats where I need to learn more, then put it into practical by better practice, not what I have been doing. Still like to explore some different ammo thats somewhat available out there, thats my project for tonight. Monday will hit the range with some new to me info and see how it works.
Ive found this Sniper's Hide web site and its members to be a wealth of information. So glad Armorplate made mention to it.
Thanks again.