CZ 457 build, pre and post bedding results

[BigTex]

CZ 457 VPT with factory barrel
Vortex Razor AMG
Seekins low rings
Area 419 scope rail
Area 419 bolt knob
DIP magwell, mag release, and block.
Custom cut full length grade 10.9 action screws.
Reshaped and polished striker
Polished bolt
Manners Lightweight cheek piece
Pillar bedded with MarineTex
Atlas rail / Atlas CAL.

The trigger is breaking at a crisp 18oz with absolutely no creep or overtravel.

I wanted to see how much accuracy I could wring out of the factory barrel, something about spending $500 on a new .22 barrel after I just paid $1k for the gun doesn't sit well with me

Pre bedding 0.513" and 0.580" averages

Post bedding 0.379" and 0.419" averages

It seems to throw a lot less flyers with the bedding job, also the groups are more round and not strung out. All shot with the same lot of SKRM.

Before bedding it was doing 1.25-1.75" @100yds. I didn't have time to shoot at 100 today, but I am really interested to see the results.

 

[Skeetshooter]

Nice work. Convinced me to bed mine for sure. Also, I have shot all of the higher end match grade ammo out of my CZ457. Try the Wolf Match Extra. It has been much more consistent than Center-X.

 

[justin amateur]

I wonder what would occur if you bedded or shimmed the barrel.
Shooting from a bipod, I have to wonder about stock flex and the springboard effect.

 

[45cal4life]

Better performance and the satisfaction of doing the work yourself!!!

 

[padom]

My factory CZ barrels didnt like Center X. SK RM was second best... FGMM 922A was the best at every distance from 50yd out to 400yd

 

[BigTex]

I wonder what would occur if you bedded or shimmed the barrel.
Shooting from a bipod, I have to wonder about stock flex and the springboard effect.

I bedded about 3.5" of the barrel. I was playing with cardboard shims (empty ammo boxes) at the muzzle end of the stock and it made no difference in group size. That Manners stock is pretty rigid, not much stock flex taking place I wouldn't think. I have read all of you and @djdilliodon's threads about CZ shimming and bedding. I was going to full length bed the barrel if it didn't shoot good in this configuration.

 

[Mr.BR]

Bedding a barrel is generaly off no benefit and good smiths generaly avoid it . Full lenght barrel bedding is just bad juju.

 

[BigTex]

Bedding a barrel is generaly off no benefit and good smiths generaly avoid it . Full lenght barrel bedding is just bad juju.

I agree with this for Center fire rifles, but there is a very successful CZ 455 builder that FL beds.

 

[justin amateur]

Free floated is not a rule, only a suggestion.

Never know what will happen until you try it.

Current best results at 200 yards in the 6x5 was produced with a locked down barrel.


Worked for me.


Trav, shimming didn't help?
Then stock flex is not a problem.
How many rounds through the barrel at this point?
I had a factory barrel that didn't settle down
until almost 4k went downrange.
Then it did as well as my Lilja.

 

[BigTex]

It's got about 1200 through it now.

 

[Mr.BR]

So far i bedded about 40+ rimfires have never bedded a barrel except in some prehistoric Enfields with pencil barrel and multipart stock. FL bedding would depend on stock stiffness wheras action bedding does not , if you always load the rifle the same on bipod it might be ok but if you shoot PRS type matches ,the stock is loaded at differnt points you ,might end up with slight POI changes.

 

[RandomWAguy]

Area 419 doesn't list the magwell, block and mag release on their website, do you have to call them?

 

[BigTex]

Area 419 doesn't list the magwell, block and mag release on their website, do you have to call them?

That was a mistake, they are DIP not Area 419. Post edited.

 

[BigTex]

Free floated is not a rule, only a suggestion.

Never know what will happen until you try it.

Current best results at 200 yards in the 6x5 was produced with a locked down barrel.


Worked for me.


Trav, shimming didn't help?
Then stock flex is not a problem.
How many rounds through the barrel at this point?
I had a factory barrel that didn't settle down
until almost 4k went downrange.
Then it did as well as my Lilja.

I'm trying to decide if a Lilja is worth it. What is your opinion? I am really happy with how this gun shoots at 50 yards solidly in the .3s-.4s, )but at 100 it averages 1.25-1.5". In your experience do the Lilja barrels shoot better at 100yds? I'd like to get it sub-moa at 100yds, but I don't want to drop 5 more bills on a barrel for this gun if I have reached the maximum accuracy potential of the system as a whole.

Lilja says their accuracy standard is 1moa, and will usually do 0.3-0.4@50... I already have the latter with my factory barrel. I am not going to spend $500 to shave 1/4 MOA@100. So I guess my main question is how well did your Lilja shoot consistently @100yds?

Is this realistic of a Lilja drop in? This guy is shooting 1 hole groups at 50 and sub 1/2"@100 according to the video.

 

[justin amateur]

I have both Lilja and Shilen 455 barrels.
Both produce better results than most factory barrels.
The reasons being tighter chambers, better rifling, hand lapped bore.
No break in time, no need to fire a couple thousand rounds
to polish out defects in the rifling.
Better crowns all improved my results.
But, it's only worth the money if the ammo quality matches the barrel.
Don't expect a custom barrel to produce worthwhile results
unless you use the top grades of 22lr ammo.
At 100 yards, 10 fps difference between two shots with SV 22lr
produces 1/4 inch of vertical spread.
Typical mid grade ammo shows an ES of 50 to 60 fps.
That's 1.25 to 1.5 inches of vertical, before wind and skill affect results.

 

[BigTex]

The current lot of SKRM that I am shooting has show an ES of 36fps and an SD of 6.9 for 50 rounds per my LabRadar, but I still can't seem to get any better than a 1.25" average group in the 6x5. bedding cut my 50yd groups by 30%, but so far the 100yd average hasn't budged. Maybe I need a calmer day.

 

[justin amateur]

Check headspace and chamber dimensions.
Might be a bit oversized and allowing the cartridges too much movement.
Does your barrel engrave the bullets when chambered?

 

[BigTex]

The headspace is definitely long, 0.048" if I recall. No engraving.

 

[justin amateur]

Mass produced hammer forged barrels can vary in quality.
Some due to the Hammer forging process.
Uneven bore diameter, rough finish on the rifling.
As tools wear out the cuts they produce get sloppy.
You end up with smeared lands, chatter marks,
out of spec dimensions and a misaligned chamber or crown.
You have to decide is it worth the price when chasing consistent accuracy?

 

[BigTex]

I get all of that, I've been in the center fire game a long time. I've just seen too many posts featuring Lilja barrels that didnt shoot much better than my factory barrel. If a Lilja would get me consistently sub-MOA @100, I'd buy one. I just dont want to spend 5 bills and be back where I started. I asked you for real world data because you mentioned ou had experience with Lilja barrels.

My barrel doesn't seem to have any tight or loose spots except its choked really abruptly at the crown. Every thing that I can see without a borescope seems squared away.

 

[justin amateur]

With the centerfire background then you know the mechanical requirements.
CZ builds mass produced Sporter rifles.
Some do quite well, others suffer from Monday morning or Friday afternoon syndrome.
They appear adequate but small deficiencies add up.
I had to build a barrel block test setup to isolate the problem.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-4HBgRgakMvs/USOxD6GTnAI/AAAAAAAABSA/VoW6VBbKdWg/s640/vise1.JPG

With the factory barrel 0.5 inch was the average result at 50 yards.
Testing was done across a chronograph with Midas+.
With the Lilja in the same setup, ended up with a 0.35 inch average.
5 shot groups, but the aggregate group sizes we're significantly larger.
The Lilja showed 0.6 inches, the CZ showed 0.8 inches.
Wind and ammo quality variations make the difference.
I have no access to an indoor range.

 

[garandman]

Thanx for posting this.


I guess i just have unrealistic expectattions for 22rf.

But after years of chasing accuracy in a 22 rf, I think I am done with the caliber for any sort of a precision rifle platform.

From all my precision rifles of whatever caliber, I'm looking for 0.30 - 0.50" at 100yards, not 50. At 50, I'm wanting 0.25" MoA. And I am unwilling to spend the time and money needed to get that.

This thread (in part) helped me confirm that. So.... thanx.

Good lookin' rifle, BTW.

Loved all my 455's and 457's. .

 

[justin amateur]

I hear ya' GM.
When folks post wallet groups, then claim all day long
kinda makes ya' feel like ya' must be doing something wrong.
You are.... y'er believing they're telling the truth.
I've spent the last year trying every brand of rimfire available.
It is amazing just how much variation there is even from the same lot numbers.
If I based my claims solely on my absolute best groups
I wouldn't be offering the complete story.
Out of 10 targets shot, only one or two are worthwhile.
I call 'em random acts of accuracy.
Between wind, ammo quality and human error,
sometimes I do surprisingly well with rimfire, most times not.

With centerfire handloads and a purpose built match rifle, I can do much better.

 

[BigTex]

This is a typical 100yd target with LCX, I ran out of SK. 3-4 tight shots and a dropper. I didnt run this by the LabRadar, I will take it next time. If the droppers are velocity related, which I suspect they are, I think I have entered the area of diminishing returns as far as barrels go. The next step is full custom and I'm not going there on a caliber that's dependent on factory ammo quality. My last 12 consecutive 5 shot groups at 50yds that I posted in the 6x5 averaged 0.399" which is not far from your Lilja average.

I had targets stapled across the top and bottom of this one, that's why there are extra bullet holes.

 

[BigTex]

I hear ya' GM.
When folks post wallet groups, then claim all day long
kinda makes ya' feel like ya' must be doing something wrong.
You are.... y'er believing they're telling the truth.
I've spent the last year trying every brand of rimfire available.
It is amazing just how much variation there is even from the same lot numbers.
If I based my claims solely on my absolute best groups
I wouldn't be offering the complete story.
Out of 10 targets shot, only one or two are worthwhile.
I call 'em random acts of accuracy.
Between wind, ammo quality and human error,
sometimes I do surprisingly well with rimfire, most times not.

With centerfire handloads and a purpose built match rifle, I can do much better.

Exactly, I use the 6x5 thread for my baseline accuracy expectations, I couldn't care less about people posting single cropped groups. I want the whole picture.

 

[BigTex]

Thanx for posting this.


I guess i just have unrealistic expectattions for 22rf.

But after years of chasing accuracy in a 22 rf, I think I am done with the caliber for any sort of a precision rifle platform.

From all my precision rifles of whatever caliber, I'm looking for 0.30 - 0.50" at 100yards, not 50. At 50, I'm wanting 0.25" MoA. And I am unwilling to spend the time and money needed to get that.

This thread (in part) helped me confirm that. So.... thanx.

Good lookin' rifle, BTW.

Loved all my 455's and 457's. .

View attachment 7091671
View attachment 7091674

I came into the whole rimfire thing to compete in NRL22. I knew that centerfire accuracy was not going to happen, but I like to chase accuracy any way. If I could get this thing to be consistently Sub MOA at 100 like it is at 50, I'd be pleased. If not, it is still more than competitive for NRL22. If I had a CF rifle that wasn't consistently sub 1/2MOA, it would be going down the road. Luckily, my rifle builder is top notch and I have always gotten lasers from him. That combined with absolute control over ammunition quality, makes this possible.

 

[BigTex]

Currently the headspace is at 0.046" I think I may try shimming the bolt to close the headspace down to0.042-0.043". I ordered some shims, we'll see how it works out.

 

[BigTex]

Ok guys, I have some results. I was out playing in the wind today, which is not optimal, but you play the hand you're dealt. This lot of SKRM is not shooting as consistently as the last lot, but still acceptable I guess. The rim thickness avg is 0.0435". I shot 18 5 shot groups at 50 yards and 6 5 shot groups at 100 yards both shimmed and unshimmed. wind was 12-15mph from 4:00 but fairly steady.

50yds

0.046" headspace 18 group Avg:0.701"

0.043" headspace 18 group Avg: 0.623"

11% improvement

100yds

0.046" headspace 6 group Avg: 1.454"

0.043" headspace 6 group Avg: 1.109"

23% improvement

Like I said earlier, conditions were sub optimal. I will do further testing later if the wind ever dies down.

 

[djdilliodon]

I’ve bedded thousands of rimfire a from cz’s to anschutz and everything else in between. Also have done my fair share of centerfire as well. Free float, full length, partial etc, can be a hit or a miss depending on the gun and setup. Most guns I did full length where factory barrels and how much I did was done via range testing to tune it. It was a ton of work and time to do this! Once I went custom fit barrels I did action area only it an inch and did the tuning via the rifle. To shoot lights out a killer barrel is a must! You also need a proven chamber for what you intend to shoot. How it’s fit also makes a difference (permanently attached). Trigger, action, and bolt work is a must as well. Ignition has to be as consistent as possible or vertical stringing will be the norm. To get a rimfire to do consistent 1/4” or better takes some work but when it’s there, it’s all worth it!

 

[BigTex]

I decided to glue the barrel in today, after doing so, the bedding under the barrel was not correct any longer so I ground it out. I am going to shoot it tomorrow, free floated and glued in. I may re-bed depending on how it shoots.

 

[BigTex]

I got out and shot in this final configuration with the same crappy lot of SKRM. It did ok(.5-.7), but most of the groups were vertically strung. I pulled it apart at the house and could see a rub mark on the bedding compound under the barrel, so I ground out some more, enough to get 4 dollar bills between freely. It's going to be a week or so before I get back out, but I got a lot of SK Pistol Match Special and SK Standard + to try as well.

 

[Frankr]

I’ve bedded thousands of rimfire a from cz’s to anschutz and everything else in between. Also have done my fair share of centerfire as well. Free float, full length, partial etc, can be a hit or a miss depending on the gun and setup. Most guns I did full length where factory barrels and how much I did was done via range testing to tune it. It was a ton of work and time to do this! Once I went custom fit barrels I did action area only it an inch and did the tuning via the rifle. To shoot lights out a killer barrel is a must! You also need a proven chamber for what you intend to shoot. How it’s fit also makes a difference (permanently attached). Trigger, action, and bolt work is a must as well. Ignition has to be as consistent as possible or vertical stringing will be the norm. To get a rimfire to do consistent 1/4” or better takes some work but when it’s there, it’s all worth it!

Out of curiosity, did you ever accurize a 17hmr or 17hm2 barreled action?

Really wondering what would be possible with a gun and barrel maxed out for one of those rounds.

 

[Guesty]

Travclem, how is your rifle going now?
I’m fascinated to find out as I have a new Cz457 Varmint which is fair accuracy wise, but I’m wondering about next steps such as stock bedding and bolt shimming.

 

[BigTex]

It's shooting pretty consistently on the .5s @50 and 1.25" @100. I'm going to re barrel it when I get around to it.

 

[Guesty]

Well it certainly seems that you have done everything that could be done to improve accuracy and consistency so far, so the the final step must be to change the barrel.
I certainly hope you get accuracy like in the video above at post #14. Please do let us know how you get on.

 

[Bantam1]

My 457 MTR hasn't been super picky with ammo, but some stand out like the regular Norma Match. I have shot Federal GMM, SK Standard Plus, Wolf Match, CCI SV, Norma Tac?, CCI Select, Eley Tenex and probably a few more I can't remember. I did 10 shot group at 50 yards with each. What I found is the barrel does like a few run through it of each ammo type before testing the groups. Some take 10 rounds, others take 20-30.

When I cleaned the barrel it took about 60 rounds to get back to shooting tiny groups again. I get odd fliers with everything but Wolf and Norma. I suspect bedding may help it based on the OP results. Almost everything chronoed about the same speed around 1100-1130. The CCI select was 1193. The Norma, Wolf and TenEx all had single digit SD for 10 shots. Norma and Wolf (old and new lots) had ES in the teens.

I didn't buy this rifle to shoot tiny groups at 50 yards. I now only shoot it 100-500 yards (new enjoyment for me). I want to try 600 but scope elevation and reticle limitations have me stuck at 500 max.

 

[tinman52]

Man, that looks good! well done

 

[BigTex]

Got a Bartlein barrel in today. Will see how it shoots later this week.

 

[OneBill]

Prefit?

 

[1911Operator]

Looking at a Bartlein barrel myself..look forward to your range report

 

[Mr.BR]

What is the price difference between CZ 457 and Anschutz 64 in US , can you get a new barrel for the price difference? Even so CZ still some ways to go reaching Anschutz

 

[littlepod]

I don't have a CZ 457, but it looks like it's been a lottery game... some 457's I see shoot pretty damn great right out of the box. Also with all this variance, the shooter does have a lot of effect on groups. With a proven rifle, and ammo lot, how well were you able to shoot @ 100? My factory T1X barrel shoots on average 1.1" with SK+, .9" with good lots, and shoots .7's with match ammo like Eley Tenex. I ended up buying a new barrel for my Tikka though from IBI (McGowan is also a good place to get barrels ~$325 shipped). New barrel is shooting .7's @ 100 with Center-X. I can't see why the T1X or CZ 457 have any real difference in terms of precision. The next jump is just the V22 with a controlled feed mechanism in case the feeding/scraping of the round on the barrel could cause minor variances.

 

[BigTex]

Prefit?

Yes

 

[BigTex]

Looking at a Bartlein barrel myself..look forward to your range report

Hopefully tomorrow afternoon.

 

[BigTex]

I don't have a CZ 457, but it looks like it's been a lottery game... some 457's I see shoot pretty damn great right out of the box. Also with all this variance, the shooter does have a lot of effect on groups. With a proven rifle, and ammo lot, how well were you able to shoot @ 100? My factory T1X barrel shoots on average 1.1" with SK+, .9" with good lots, and shoots .7's with match ammo like Eley Tenex. I ended up buying a new barrel for my Tikka though from IBI (McGowan is also a good place to get barrels ~$325 shipped). New barrel is shooting .7's @ 100 with Center-X. I can't see why the T1X or CZ 457 have any real difference in terms of precision. The next jump is just the V22 with a controlled feed mechanism in case the feeding/scraping of the round on the barrel could cause minor variances.

This gun averaged 1.25-1.5" @100yds with SKRM and the factory barrel. I have some groups posted in the 6x5 thread.

 

[BigTex]

What is the price difference between CZ 457 and Anschutz 64 in US , can you get a new barrel for the price difference? Even so CZ still some ways to go reaching Anschutz

Yeah, this rifle is a money pit as I have stated in other threads, but it is a fun project for me. Not sure the cost of the 64 over here, but if I was doing it all over, this would be a Vudoo, not an Anschutz.

 

[littlepod]

Every rimfire barrel is super picky so I'd try to be a bit more conclusive with ammo types before concluding it's just the barrel's fault. I got a new match barrel, and went and shot my Eley Tenex ammo that has consistently done .5-.7" at 100 yards with my factory ruger 10/22 and T1X. The new barrel hated all of my Eley Ammo.. Target, Contact, Match, Tenex all shot around .9" - 1.3". I was worried...

I then went over to SK ammo and it was shooting my SK+ at 1", LRM at .85". My lot of Rifle Match did not take though, and was getting 1.1" with it. I then borrowed some boxes of LCX and shot a 6x5 of .75"

I just put an order in for 2 boxes each SK Pistol Match Special, SK Biathlon Sport, Flat Nose Match, another few boxes of Rifle Match, and Pistol King to see...

 

[BigTex]

Every rimfire barrel is super picky so I'd try to be a bit more conclusive with ammo types before concluding it's just the barrel's fault. I got a new match barrel, and went and shot my Eley Tenex ammo that has consistently done .5-.7" at 100 yards with my factory ruger 10/22 and T1X. The new barrel hated all of my Eley Ammo.. Target, Contact, Match, Tenex all shot around .9" - 1.3". I was worried...

I then went over to SK ammo and it was shooting my SK+ at 1", LRM at .85". My lot of Rifle Match did not take though, and was getting 1.1" with it. I then borrowed some boxes of LCX and shot a 6x5 of .75"

I just put an order in for 2 boxes each SK Pistol Match Special, SK Biathlon Sport, Flat Nose Match, another few boxes of Rifle Match, and Pistol King to see...

I have shot SKRM, SK+, SK pistol match special, Lapua Center X, Lapua Midas, Eley Match, Eley Pitol match, Eley Club, Federal 922, Federal Ultramatch, Rws R50, R100, and probably a few more that I am forgetting through this barrel. At least a brick of each. Didn't mean to sound as if SKRM is all I had shot, but SKRM is what it likes best.

As stated before, the factory barrel shot pretty good at 50 but fell apart at 100 with everything. That is the issue I want to correct.

 

[littlepod]

If you look at all of the 6x5's the group size from 50 yards to 100 yards usually goes up by a factor of 3, not 2. People who are putting in .5-.6" groups at 100 yards, are putting in .172-.2's at 50 yards.

If you're doing around .37-.4, then you should be expecting about 1.1 - 1.25" at 100 yards. So I don't think it's falling apart, it's just the barrel/shooter. So you should be able to verify if you get a new barrel that if you get down to .25 at 50 yards, then .75 would be generally your 100 yards.

 

[Mr.BR]

cherry picked group or two does not make it a gun that does 0.5 at 100