CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

[Rassmussen]

Hey guys!

I am looking into buying a new small caliber rifle, and have been checking out the CZ Varmint. I sort of had my mind set on it, but then I stumbled upon a thread on a Norwegian rifle forum. They where pointing out issues with this particular model consistently throwing the first shot. Other shots are dead on, and accuracy is said to be superb.

This phenomenon is reported on several different types of ammo. They tested the rifles from a bench, to withdraw the shooter from the equation, and still found that the Varmint does indeed throw the first shot.

Now there is no conclusion as far as why this model has this problem, but it is mentioned that since the CZ models have a "thight" barrel, the fat from previous bullets may cause this. Now, there are several reports of this happening, on various age of rifles, so a bad batch of rifles is unlikely.

Now I understand that a lot of people on this forum own these rifles, so any comment on if there really are any problems with the first shot?

-R

 

[sharac]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

I have such rifle and i cannot confirm that. With RWS (target rifle) ammo there is no such behaviour. I had "problems" with SK/lapua Magazine (500 round tin package) with flyers but that's ammo not rifle. But i do clean it with patch or two after shooting as i am not comfortable with storing dirty rifles...

 

[Rassmussen]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

Referring to the tests they made, cleaning the rifle has zero effect on the rifles ability to not throw the first shot.

-R

 

[sharac]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

Haven't read that discussion so i wouldn't know. I must say though i've bedded mine and sanded stock since it had right side of the barrel touching wood (thats pretty common with those rifles). Where does the first shot go (down/up left right random?) since i find it very odd. I would say its colder in Norway that in Slovenia and first shot goes downwards due to heat capacity of cold bore and certain amount of energy is being spent to warm up the barrel...but that can be easily tested with shooting from a room temperatures or in summer.

Check on rimfirecentral if someone there has any ideas or can confirm this as a fact and not hearsay.

 

[Rassmussen]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

First shots are reported to different impact points. One rifle is reported to be high by 12-15 cm (approx 4,7-5,9 inches) above center, another high by 7 cm (2,7 inches) and the last I could find was 7 cm down to the right.

All rifles are fired from a fixed bench position.

It is reported that this only seems to effect the Varmint model, which makes it even more strange. The CZ American seems not to be affected at all. It seems more and more likely that this is a barrel problem.

-R

 

[sharac]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

I'd call this a BS. My 452 Varmint was never off for more than 3cm and even that shooting from shoulder @ 50m with large part of it my poor shooting. Maybe there is a defective batch however why only first shot... I think that if that was the case with this rifle there would be plenty of such observations all over the world as those are very popular shooters.

 

[TonyC]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

My first shot is generally 1/2" out of the subsequent group at 50yds - I've never been able to come up with an completely adequate explanation for it and it's certainly different from centrefire cold bore vs. cold shooter discussions.

I don't clean the rimfire barrel and I had some thoughts about powder residue/bullet coating and moisture but frankly I don't worry about it that much. I always shoot with a moderator (suppressor) and it's never been an issue using a fouling shot.

Rifle is a CZ452 American/Silhouette chopped to 14 inches and devcon bedded in to a McMillan varmint stock without using the front barrel lug screw.

TC

 

[MTETM]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

I have NOT found this to be the case with my 452 varmint. I am cheap and like to practice so my ammo of choice is Federal 510 and I have not experienced first round flyers.
I have removed the barrel lug/screw, added a pillar for the action, bedded the entire action and first 1.5 inches of the barrel.
The rifle shoots great for me.

 

[TonyC]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

I thought after typing that I can't even remember the last time I checked this - my habit is to use a fouling shot before shooting for record or taking the first varmint shot.

I'm pretty sure I have not checked since I switched stocks 1 year + ago. I'll give it a try.

TC

 

[Rassmussen]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

I have done some more research, and it seems that there are more people out there that have had the same problem.

I came across a post over at rimfirecentral that discussed the exact same problem, but it does not seem to be that widespread.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292976&highlight=fliers

-R

 

[sharac]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

One option might be not cleaning and leaving lube in the barrel. As it is cold lube is more solid after first shot barrel get heated a bit so does the lube which in turn gets softer more viscous hence different friction for consequent shots.

After it gets cold here i can do some testing (will try to force myself to leave barrel dirty

) to see if that is the case.

 

[TonyC]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sharac</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One option might be not cleaning and leaving lube in the barrel. As it is cold lube is more solid after first shot barrel get heated a bit so does the lube which in turn gets softer more viscous hence different friction for consequent shots.

After it gets cold here i can do some testing (will try to force myself to leave barrel dirty

) to see if that is the case.
</div></div>

I think you may be on to something there but my thought process was that the .22lr generates very little heat and even on a cold day with plenty of time for the barrel to cool the condition does not seem to come back.

I speculated it may be a combination of lube/powder residue mix becoming thicker with a lengthy exposure to air since the last outing or perhaps attracting some level of moisture.

No big deal regardless!

TC

 

[sharac]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

My varmint gets quite warm to the touch if i shoot fast (i like to practice/fool around with fast bolt recycle from 10 round magazine in less than 15 seconds) and with fats being solid to certain point and then instantly melting i would assume that could be the source of the problems. I will try to test this since I've been following clean/no clean discussions for a long time.

But i agree 100% even if that would be the case it is a very small problem to overcome...

 

[MTETM]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

I thought I would give this a go and see what the rifle would do. Although I stated I have never seen the problem, I thought I would make damn sure and provide some evidence. These are just the CBS and 1 followup shot.
I will do it again when I get home this evening and shoot a 5 shot group...
Target was shot prone with the bi-pod.

I shot these 2 targets this am. They were shot 1 hour apart. It was 30 degrees this am, so I would say the 2nd group was a cold bore as well. The rifle was left outside at the shooting line.

Ammo is Federal 510's. Range was 40 yards, just where I put the target, nothing purposeful about the distance.

I will let the target speak for itself.

Rifle

 

[Teo74]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

I have always heard the Americans are usually more accurate and do not have cold bore problems like the varmints do. I have had both and have not had problems with either.

 

[hgr2]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

Guess I got a good one, no problems at all.

 

[DeeGee]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

I have two varmints, one in .22lr and one in .17hmr. Both shoot the first shot of the day about 2.5" high. It doesn't appear to matter whether they are dirty or clean (or, more properly, I haven't observed a pattern yet). It doesn't matter how many other shots I take with heavier calibers, or even with one of the Varmints, the first shot with one is always off. I have the same scope on each and I bet if I get someone to hand me one such that I didn't know if it was the first shot or not I could tell. The rifles are extremely accurate, after that shot. I thought it was just me, but I don't have the problem with any other rifles.

 

[MTETM]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

I shot a 5 round cold bore group at 40 yards when I got home from Dinner today....

First 2 shots cut each other in half, center of the pasty...next three still in the .75 inch pasty...

Conclusion...Not rifle

 

[sobrbiker883]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

MTETM-what stock is that?

Back on topic, my Silhouette never had such problems (barrel lug locked to barrel with set screw and action up through barrel lug bedded) with Wolf MT or SK Standard Plus.

I have a new to me Varmint that I haven't shot yet, but will try it out once I quit swapping optics around and get a scope back on it.

 

[MTETM]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body">MTETM-what stock is that?</div></div>

I made the stock. Started life as a rough-cut 2x6. Has a layer of 2 oz fiberglass and polyester resin. It is my poor rendition of my Manners GAT. Decided I needed something with similar ergo to my center-fires for positional and weak-side practice. I have another black cut out.

Sorry for the short hijacking...

 

[Rassmussen]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

Thanks for the input guys.

I have decided on a CZ American. I'm having an integral silencer fitted so it seems like a better option anyways.

Thanks!

-R

 

[mavrick10_2000]

Re: CZ Varmint supposedly throws first shot

Never had that issue with my 452 Varmint. It's bone stock. As far as cleaning I wipe off the exterior. Put several bricks of Federal Champion Bulk and Wolf Match through it. Always same POI whether 1st shot or 100th of the day, unless I'm pulling, pushing or otherwise.