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Hunting & Fishing David Petzal needs straighting out.

sandwarrior

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Minuteman
Apr 21, 2007
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I was looking for a long range video while surfing the net, and the Google search came up with this:

Shooting Long Range: The Generational Theory | Field & Stream

In general I don't agree with Petzal on a whole lot. But he does write and promote gun ownership and use.

But, I'm feeling more than a little offended by his stance that "real men" used bayonets and those who go beyond the wire and live in a whole lot more dangerous twelve inch world than he portrays, are just sneaky. That somehow, the "guts" title we see in them {corrected: "snipers" } isn't justified. First, he's never even used a bayonet, as second, his reference to combat is WWII movies (He should've seen "Saving Private Ryan")

Next, it's just as much our responsibility to hand down hunting ethics as it is for a kid to learn them. When I was a kid, good steel scopes were just becoming the norm. Open sights were still widely used on a lot of old lever guns. Does that make us bad for taking to new technology? I mean a scope in a long shot situation is going to be a lot better than an open buckhorn, so why use it?

He points out how tough it is to scan 180 degrees from a stand. When I moved to Minnesota and saw a lot of tree stands, I was amazed at the number of alcohol bottles I found in vacated deer stands. And the number of soused hunters getting in their vehicles and headed to the bar I saw. I've done my share of drinking in deer camp but not when I'm out hunting with a weapon. These weren't youngsters either. So maybe the ethics question goes both ways.

In short, I'd like for you to read the article and voice your opinion in the comments. Mine was a negative. But, understand that I'm not fond of Petzal and his "I'm right every time" philosophy of writing.
 
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He points out how tough it is to scan 180 degrees from a stand. When I moved to Minnesota and saw a lot of tree stands, I was amazed at the number of alcohol bottles I found in vacated deer stands. And the number of soused hunters getting in their vehicles and headed to the bar I saw. I've done my share of drinking in deer camp but not when I'm out hunting with a weapon. These weren't youngsters either. So maybe the ethics question goes both ways.


Uh, it's Minnesota. I'd be drunk all the time too if I had to live there.
Oh, and I completely agree that Petzal is the worst outdoor "gun-writer" in the biz (if that was what you were saying).
 
A sample of Petzel's writing:

grandpa_simpson_yelling_at_cloud.jpg


I find him not always wrong...but for damn sure not always right.
 
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It's not just the magazines, but here on the web to be sure! Long Range Hunting, operated by a guy that touts huskemaw scopes as the greatest thing to every be mounted on a rifle. With very little if any range time, you'll be able to take game a very long ranges just by putting the right dial on your huskemaw......... A shill, yes. Yet, he has managed to get quite a following.
 
Just for fun, I read a feature article in Guns Magazine about a "high-end" budget duo customized Taurus/Mossberg revolver/shotty (along with a custom ceracoated CKRT knife) Friday on the plane. This little combo was just a fuzz over 3 grand and the writer spent most of the time talking about the great work of the "customizer" and the virtues of the shotty. Well, I get down to the Taurus and then it starts. Something to the effect of the customizer says his idea here was to shoot 44 Specials and not the 44 Mags in the little 5 shot revolver so writer was not surprised to get cylinder bind and light strikes on 44 Mag ammo (well it is a Taurus no matter how much love you lay on it with a dremel and ceracoat). Turns out the customizer(not using gunsmith here on purpose) failed to reinstall the FP return spring (IIRC). But in the end it was OK and the everyone should hire them to get a pair of their own.
When the Ruer 22 Hornet bolt gun came out a writer I know had written an article. I asked him straight up "should I get one?" since his article was so positive. Nope, it took Ruger three guns to get him one that would group anything inside 3" @ 100 yards. BTW, this guy also won a match (according to one of his articles)that I was at and he wasn't.
NEVER believe anything most of them write!
 
Interesting read, however I did not get the same negative vibe.

Same here, with no negative feelings from the article..... you hear the same thing from car guys who were around in the 60's. Hard to compare my father's 67 ss camaro to my 13 Mitsu EVO. Technology moves pretty fast, and can be confusing to previous generations. I do tip my hat to those who keep nostalgic traditions alive. I have seen a few shooters that were quicker with a lever than I could ever be with my colt ar15 carbine. If you think your a great shot..... hit up a CMP match some time. Shooting a 1903, m1 carbine or garand will bring a little humility to your life.
 
Forgive me sandwarrior, I can't bring myself to reading any articles from those rags? I haven't opened a copy of my NRA Rifleman for 3 years, my wife retired last September so I can't pack them with her anymore.
 
Forgive me sandwarrior, I can't bring myself to reading any articles from those rags? I haven't opened a copy of my NRA Rifleman for 3 years, my wife retired last September so I can't pack them with her anymore.

Duly forgiven Milo. As I mentioned I came across the article just doing a "long range shooting" search and had it not been opened for me, I never would have ventured there.

As to nostalgia, I'm actually all about that. I loved shooting my 1899 Savage in .250-3000. For a 1915 lever-gun, it shot pretty damn accurate. My 1891, 1895 and 1909 mausers have shot exceptional. So good in fact I was able to take them to 1000 yds. with my best duplication of that era ammunition. My 1951 K-31 is flat out awesome in that regard.

Where I get the negative vibe from is his labeling of "snipers" as an insult. I think it's mostly him and a few around him that don't like them. From what I see, he doesn't like them today.

While I know the younger generation wants more instant gratification, we older generations like it as well. I still say hunting ethics is not given from electronic devices, rather they are given from us. Those of us who have learned by being out there need to pass it on or it won't be out there for the next generation. Equipment has improved immensely in the past 20 years. I don't think using that equipment is a downside as long as new hunters understand their limitations. That's all he had to say. I didn't need to hear all the other put-downs. If you didn't get a negative vibe from the article, I think you are giving him a lot of latitude.
 
90% of the "content" in gun/outdoor rags is just blowhard BS, knocking down strawman arguments they set up for themselves, or advertising disguised as an article.

Yes. I started reading gun magazines while deployed last year sitting on a Navy ship with nothing to do. I usually flip through the pictures and put them back on the shelf, but with literally NOTHING else to do, I began reading some of the articles. I made it through maybe 6-7 "brands" of gun/hunting magazines before I gave up hope. I went through several with a red pen, correcting very basic grammatical errors, never mind content...

It's kind of obvious if you think about it, though. What specific, useful information do you honestly expect to learn from a 2-4 page article that's published for the masses?
 
This anti LR hunting crowd is cut from the same cloth as the anti crossbow crowd, or in my dad's day the anti compound bow group. As technology advances the old dyed in the wool guys crow how unethical it is to shoot your prey from 800 yds, 60 yds or even 35 yds. It seems silly to fight against people on our side! Ive have seen those who with a 300 WM that couldn't make an clean kill and watched my 13 yr old little sister drop a doe with .357 mag as if the earth had been jerk from beneath its feet. Hunting isn't target practice. The knuckleheads that are out blowing legs off of deer are the ones who lend credibility to the real anti hunting groups.
 
Watching Petzal on GUN NUTS (Outdoor Channel) was painful to say the least. During his multi-episode rant on LR shooting every sentence had, "This is how the snipers do it" or "Snipers yada yada yada". Its like fucking spare me. Especially when his first "Long Range Tip" is don't shoot long range.

Gun rags are advertisements...nothing more. Jokers like Petzal and Bodington are just salesman masqaraiding as shooters.

I do believe the show GUN NUTS is no longer on the air.

What has boddington said that lumps him in with this other asshole? I have read some good stuff by boddington.
 
I agree about Boddington, his writing is both interesting and thought provoking. Some of his preferences are not mine but that's no sin. He writes for the public, which is by and large not us.

His target audience does not handload, and is more likely interested in buying a package and employing it as bought.

He favors his advertisers' products, and I'm thinking that's because he gets them from them gratis. The products he gets are probably expensive because that's what the suppliers prefer we buy.

I admit that at least one of the things I feel when I read his work is envy, because I'm highly unlikely to ever be able to afford either the equipment he employs, or the hunts he takes them on. I don't think any of this is a bad thing.

I have written for magazines (Precision Shooter and Tactical Shooter) and been paid to do it. As such (and it was pretty minimal), I wasn't writing for approval, I needed the bucks. I didn't last long at it, and that's probably as it should be.

But that's still a somewhat rare perspective around here.

I would not do it now, even if I could (and the odds don't favor that by a long shot). That's because I have learned so much more about what I don't know in the intervening decades. A mag writer does not get enough space to allow for the splitting of hairs or the hedging of bets; and there is no question that slamming the advertisers is bad form.

My own articles were somewhat longer than is the norm we are talking about, and that could only have happened in the magazines for which I wrote. Oddly (maybe), they are now extinct.

Greg
 
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Well, I can agree with the shooting tip for Petzel. He probably shouldn't shoot long range and neither should have of the guys that attempt to. They think they can buy a big magnum, a "military dot scope", and suddenly they are experts and can shoot the gnat off a horse's ass at 500 yards. The reality is most people shouldn't be encouraged. I've seen lots of braggarts talk about killing stuff at exceptionally long ranges, and when you go shooting with them for the first time you get to see their bullets strike the dirt half way to the berm.

Regardless, Petzel is still a moron.
 
Petzal just likes poking the bear. It's definitely nothing to get this upset about.

from my movie-watching perspective, the bad guy snipers are always the cowards, the good guy snipers are heroes.