Debating a PCC, optic question

[TurboTrout]

I’m thinking of building a PCC, it would be a pistol, 9-12” or so barrel, 9mm

Be mostly for some PCC matches and classes, and to have fun at my local range that’s 22 and pistols only. Obviously also have the ability for home defense like anything else.

I like a low profile and light weight reflex like sight, I like the foot print and glass size of the SRO, but it’s very expensive for how basic bitch the rest of it is.

Ideally I would like a more pronounced reticle, big fan of the larger MOA ring with a couple MOA dot, just catches the eye and has a little of the peep/ring sight logic to it, auto adjusts brightness would be nice but not a deal breaker.

Holosun makes something similar, but I don’t want chicom shit and they seem like that have more plastic to glass chunkyness than the SRO.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[Downtown]

USPSA PPC matches require a pistol caliber carbine. A brace equipped "handgun" does not qualify. Though I realize that's not really what you're asking.

 

[308pirate]

I like a low profile and light weight reflex like sight, I like the foot print and glass size of the SRO, but it’s very expensive for how basic bitch the rest of it is.

There's always gimmick-filled chinesium crap for guys who think quality in design, engineering, and manufacturing is "basic"

 

[308pirate]

USPSA PPC matches require a pistol caliber carbine. A brace equipped "handgun" does not qualify.

@TurboTrout you might want to think twice before you sink money into something you can't use.

 

[308pirate]

Ideally I would like a more pronounced reticle, big fan of the larger MOA ring with a couple MOA dot, just catches the eye and has a little of the peep/ring sight logic to it,

Everyone raves about those reticles, yet they suck balls. Having the reticle draw the eyes to it is the LAST think you want, if you know how to actually use a reflex sight.

 

[MarkCO]

Adjustable reticles, rugged, big window. I have it on my 10mm PCC. Got it before it was on the market and beat on it pretty good. Should be worth your time to take a look at it.

FastFire™ 4 | Burris Optics

www.burrisoptics.com

 

[davsco]

i have the c-more 6moa slideride on my minor and major open handguns and did the same for my sbr and full size pcc's, zero issues.

SR SlideRide Red Dot Sight, Polymer Body, Standard Switch

Heads Up Display for Fastest Target AcquisitionSuper Bright Red Dot with Adjustable Intensity and Interchangeable Dot ModuleInfinite Adjustment for Windage and Elevation Featuring Positive Locking ScrewsPolymer Body, Standard Intensity Switch (Dial Rheostat)Direct Mounting for Custom and...

cmore.com

 

[davsco]

from the uspsa rules:

Must have stock attached and be capable of being fired from shoulder position
• Note: Sig Brace and any variant thereof is not allowed
• Handgun to carbine conversions are allowed, provided they meet the criteria above. (See Special Conditions)

there are a lot of "outlaw" static and falling steel matches though that don't have these restrictions

 

[shoobe01]

USPSA PPC matches require a pistol caliber carbine. A brace equipped "handgun" does not qualify. Though I realize that's not really what you're asking.

Same for IDPA. I confuse everyone by having [gasp!] and SBR. And am often the only one who shoots PCC. I do it every month. without fail, as "CQB" practice for the carbine. It's fun. Just did a mid-trajectory sight offset failure last month (match DQ!) which I'd have not done setting my own COFs up.

I have the same RDS as on my carbine. Doesn't matter what I run, but if you like it there, it'll work here. Only difference from 5.56 carbines is I never mount the magnifier because so close range.

 

[TurboTrout]

View attachment 7699460

@TurboTrout you might want to think twice before you sink money into something you can't use.

I was thinking maybe some outlaw matches, the idea of “submitting” to get a stock isn’t something in the cards on principle. Ether way I’m just looking to have fun with it in a social semi competitive setting, my day job has enough rules, don’t need my fun to drown in them too lol

 

[TurboTrout]

i have the c-more 6moa slideride on my minor and major open handguns and did the same for my sbr and full size pcc's, zero issues.

SR SlideRide Red Dot Sight, Polymer Body, Standard Switch

Heads Up Display for Fastest Target AcquisitionSuper Bright Red Dot with Adjustable Intensity and Interchangeable Dot ModuleInfinite Adjustment for Windage and Elevation Featuring Positive Locking ScrewsPolymer Body, Standard Intensity Switch (Dial Rheostat)Direct Mounting for Custom and...

cmore.com

I was looking at those, but are they as big as they look? Seems like a lot of body

My AR has a jpoint on a 45 offset, it’s the ring and the dot, I love that thing, but they don’t make the ring and dot anymore.

As a primary optic having a bigger window would be nice.

 

[TurboTrout]

There's always gimmick-filled chinesium crap for guys who think quality in design, engineering, and manufacturing is "basic"

Just at their price point be cool to have a little innovation. If they didn’t feel threatened they wouldn’t be crying to the courts to try to attack holosun.

Im sure the quality is better on the trijicon, but damn if they couldn’t have multiple reticles, solar backup, turn on with movement, or just anything new, the fit and finish is great, no doubt, and the cute little mini pelican case it comes it is fun, but shit, for $600+ bring something else to the table to help me swallow that price point.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Everyone raves about those reticles, yet they suck balls. Having the reticle draw the eyes to it is the LAST think you want, if you know how to actually use a reflex sight.

I've got a dot that is selectable between an eotech style and a plain dot. I really wanted the eotech reticle to work great but it doesn't. It's fine for A zones on wide open targets but as soon as your going for head A's up close, 25 yard plate racks or really anything where you need some precision, the big ring was always in the way of something I needed to see.

 

[308pirate]

for $600+ bring something else to the table to help me swallow that price point.

I've never paid more than $490 for any Trijicon reflex sight. And I have two SROs and an RMR.

 

[308pirate]

I've got a dot that is selectable between an eotech style and a plain dot. I really wanted the eotech reticle to work great but it doesn't. It's fine for A zones on wide open targets but as soon as your going for head A's up close, 25 yard plate racks or really anything where you need some precision, the big ring was always in the way of something I needed to see.

The big donut can be extremely accurate. Center whatever you want to hit in it and don't snatch the trigger.

The problem with the big donut is that it draws your eyes to it, making you slower in transitions and even on the draw.

The last thing you want to focus on is the reticle. Most guys who think they're target focused can't shoot with a piece of tape covering the front of an RDS' lens. Because they aren't.

 

[CK1.0]

For outlaw matches a pistol PCC will be cool, and everybody always wants a shorty because they look cool...

But don't sleep on the 16" 9mm PCC's, and not just because they're legal for USPSA/IDPA and those matches can be fun to shoot sometimes, most 16" 9mm PCC's are quieter than most short PCC's with a can, sometimes by a lot too. With the 16 inchers there's literally zero concussion, and combined with how quiet they are, it makes for a really really fun gun when you want to run around and shred... it's scary how many rounds one can burn through without experiencing any kind of fatigue at all from shooting them.

For a decent PPC optic look at the Holosun 403R (it's like a super affordable T2), or just get a 510C if you wanna try the donut of death (though, you'll probably end up turning off the ring and just using the dot like has been mentioned).

 

[shoobe01]

But don't sleep on the 16" 9mm PCC's, and not just because they're legal for USPSA/IDPA and those matches can be fun to shoot sometimes, most 16" 9mm PCC's are quieter than most short PCC's with a can, sometimes by a lot too...

Oh yeah, with the heavy subs he handloads the other guy (and MUCH better shooter) at our local club with his 16" PCC is CRAZY quiet. Absolutely in the range of suppressed. You can hear downrange impact.

My SBR can be useful for very close quarters, just did some nice work last month with a carry-the-baby as I could shoot the gun shouldered with one hand. But fast people REALLY can drive the 16" guns, and they have zero recoil or rise, so can be run shockingly fast.

 

[TurboTrout]

For outlaw matches a pistol PCC will be cool, and everybody always wants a shorty because they look cool...

But don't sleep on the 16" 9mm PCC's, and not just because they're legal for USPSA/IDPA and those matches can be fun to shoot sometimes, most 16" 9mm PCC's are quieter than most short PCC's with a can, sometimes by a lot too. With the 16 inchers there's literally zero concussion, and combined with how quiet they are, it makes for a really really fun gun when you want to run around and shred... it's scary how many rounds one can burn through without experiencing any kind of fatigue at all from shooting them.

For a decent PPC optic look at the Holosun 403R (it's like a super affordable T2), or just get a 510C if you wanna try the donut of death (though, you'll probably end up turning off the ring and just using the dot like has been mentioned).

I was checking out a JP GMR, it just seems if you’re going to have 16” of stainless and a full stock, it’s hard for me to not just want to shoot rifle rounds, or for pure fucking around range only fun go 22LR


For me one of the reasons I like the small and light 9” 9mm with folding/telescope stock/brace types is how agile they are

 

[308pirate]

Ether way I’m just looking to have fun with it in a social semi competitive setting, my day job has enough rules, don’t need my fun to drown in them too lol

Nothing sucks the enjoyment out of a day of competition like inconsistent rules and their inconsistent application, which is what you get in outlaw matches.

At least with USPSA I know that I'll have a reasonable expectation of fair competition and consistent application of the rules.

 

[shoobe01]

Don't ignore the calmness. Esp stuff like that JP is like a .22 firing CBs that also knocks down steel plates with good authority. Beats a short 5.56 with suppressor for sedate shooting, and that's saying a lot. Plus... good luck with a centerfire rifle for pistol matches

But mostly, I think most of us have /all/ these guns. I never bring the 9 mm anywhere that I can shoot 5.56 (or .308) safely. It's a niche item.

 

[Billl223]

Here's a C-More mounted on a PCC. I also used them on USPSA Open guns. 5500 rounds on this one on the PCC

 

[Steel head]

I’m really wanting to update the red dot on my 9mm PCC.
The SRO is looking pretty appealing.

 

[CK1.0]

I was checking out a JP GMR, it just seems if you’re going to have 16” of stainless and a full stock, it’s hard for me to not just want to shoot rifle rounds, or for pure fucking around range only fun go 22LR


For me one of the reasons I like the small and light 9” 9mm with folding/telescope stock/brace types is how agile they are

It's hard to explain... a 9mm carbine is a zillion times more fun than a AR in like 97% of the situations guys usually shoot AR's.

If it's a "operator thing": I would never ever fucking ever want to shoot any AR indoors without a can, and extra hell no for a short one, and they're all about as long or longer than an unsuppressed 16" 9mm PCC if they've got a can... so they effectively handle the same (in fact actually, in lots of ways the AR+can is a lot worse unless it's integral and under a handguard), and in soooo many real-world situations where situational awareness and accurate fire is way more important than any mythical "stopping power", a PPC/subgun is really probably the better tool for the job.

Plus, not to derail the thread, just me personally, but I hate .22's and am a little suspicious of adults who shoot them regularly , to me I might as well shoot a f'ing airsoft gun, I don't even really consider those "precision trainers" really training, or any training with a rimfire training at all... 9mm is my "22LR" I guess...

 

[Steel head]

It's hard to explain... a 9mm carbine is a zillion times more fun than a AR in like 97% of the situations guys usually shoot AR's.

Yea, I really enjoy mine.
I rarely shoot my regular AR’s any more.

 

[shoobe01]

...Plus, not to derail the thread, just me personally, but I hate .22's and am a little suspicious of adults who shoot them regularly , to me I might as well shoot a f'ing airsoft gun, I don't even really consider those "precision trainers" really training, or any training with a rimfire training at all... 9mm is my "22LR" I guess...

I don't normally say it out loud but actually am quite of this opinion. Have several good airsoft guns, a carbine dressed broadly to match my real carbine, and an M&P. Oh, and a SIRT M&P and AR SIRT bolt, which are very useful.

I have to travel to ranges and they are 300 or 1400 depending on which, but I only had a short-ish range place to train, I'd totally make myself a 9 mm "precision rifle" trainer (even if it had to be a semi auto) and run subs through it, to get the worst possible trajectory, so I have to work all the range and dialing. Also, go crazy on handloads. I brought this up once in a .22 trainer thread and was yelled down as "this is about .22s!!!!"

Oh, last thing: Earlier in my shooting career I had many fewer guns at any one moment, and it happened I attended a somewhat action oriented rifle match when I didn't own what anyone else would consider a rifle. Instead of borrowing I just used what I had, a 9 mm CALICO. 16" as this is before KS allowed NFA devices. Handloaded the hottest 147s it could take (a lot more than you should put in a handgun), and rather cleaned up on the short range stuff. Even did /okay/ all the way out to 300, but I did it with an RDS only so no dialing and no reticle, and my skills at the time plus holding TEN FEET over the target was... not conducive to entirely consistent hits so the total score was not spectacular.

 

[TurboTrout]

It's hard to explain... a 9mm carbine is a zillion times more fun than a AR in like 97% of the situations guys usually shoot AR's.

If it's a "operator thing": I would never ever fucking ever want to shoot any AR indoors without a can, and extra hell no for a short one, and they're all about as long or longer than an unsuppressed 16" 9mm PCC if they've got a can... so they effectively handle the same (in fact actually, in lots of ways the AR+can is a lot worse unless it's integral and under a handguard), and in soooo many real-world situations where situational awareness and accurate fire is way more important than any mythical "stopping power", a PPC/subgun is really probably the better tool for the job.

Plus, not to derail the thread, just me personally, but I hate .22's and am a little suspicious of adults who shoot them regularly , to me I might as well shoot a f'ing airsoft gun, I don't even really consider those "precision trainers" really training, or any training with a rimfire training at all... 9mm is my "22LR" I guess...

I’m not a operator, don’t want to be one, I’m also not a construction worker through I have lots of tools, same deal.

Also how are you into guns and don’t like 22s? That’s like the foundation in a way, but to each their own. Most of the folks I see who don’t like 22s it’s like a ego machismo thing?

Reminds me of a friend who came out on the boat, it was a little more sporty than normal, and I wasn’t racing anyone so o thought I’d have some fun and get the teak gunwales wet, friend says he’s going to go below and take a leak, I say don’t try to piss standing up, he’s all like I’m not going to sit and piss like a woman, yeah, nothing’s more mainly than asking if I have some clothes he can borrow because he pissed on himself

Ohhhh ego

Just figure for a fun steel smacker, that’s pistol cal to shoot at a few local ranges, and be the default home defense choice, a short 9mm with a good RDS and light might be the way to go