Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

KillShot

KillShot

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May 25, 2010
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#1
Has anyone else heard, read, or know anything about this? I don't know about you, but this shit sorely pisses me off. When does it stop?!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
In October, we brought you the story of Demin Zawity, a Muslim member of the Junior ROTC member at Ravenwood High School in Brentwood, Tenn., who was not allowed to march in a program parade because she insisted on wearing her head covering, or hijab. At the time, military rules forbid such head coverings. Zawity employed the help of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), and now, the Department of Defense has relented and changed the rules.

CAIR announced the decision late last week and says it will apply to both Muslim and Sikh students.

“We welcome the fact that Muslim and Sikh students nationwide will now be able to participate fully in JROTC leadership activities while maintaining their religious beliefs and practices,” CAIR National Executive Director Nihad Awad told the Orlando Sentinel.</div></div>

Full Article — The Blaze
 
#2
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

Hate monger. HAHAHA. It is bullshit and it won't stop until we have completely lost our national identity and sovereignty. We must conform to the standards of the "world".
 
#3
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

That is interesting I am sure this is what Middle Eastern Countries are saying as well don't you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It is bullshit and it won't stop until we have completely lost our national identity and sovereignty. We must conform to the standards of the "world".
</div></div>
 
#4
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is interesting I am sure this is what Middle Eastern Countries are saying as well don't you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It is bullshit and it won't stop until we have completely lost our national identity and sovereignty. We must conform to the standards of the "world".
</div></div></div></div>

No, it's more like " duba duba ah dubbity dubba derka dubba dub..."
 
#5
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

Those towel headed bastards have no place in our organizations! Why this new and brutal policy is an affront to all that is right and good in America. DOWN WITH FREEDOM OF RELIGION!
/sarcasm off
Sekhon1.JPG

If patriotic but religiously observant Sikhs, Muslims, Hacedic Jews, and Athiests want to serve then the more power to them. Changing a cover to meet thier religious needs isn't hurting anyone.
 
#6
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

I'm all for it! We need more people from Pakistan to wear Army greens. That guy just looks outstanding in the uniform.

When I look at his giant beard and ceremonial head garb it just screams AMERICAN SOLDIER!

Something like that.
 
#7
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm all for it! We need more people from Pakistan to wear Army greens. That guy just looks outstanding in the uniform.

When I look at his giant beard and ceremonial head garb it just screams AMERICAN SOLDIER!

Something like that. </div></div>

His family name is Sekhon, and he was CO of a MASH until his retirement. FWIW, he looks fine.

dde5pv.jpg


It seems that it's getting so bad these days that they'll let just about anybody into your old club.
 
#8
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

I believe that it was during WWII that the Sikh's fought alongside the Canuckians in a number of battles. Keyword there, was ALONGSIDE.

Back home here, with the Royal Canadian Legion rules, there was NO headdress or hats to be worn by males, at all. Any person entering said establishment covered had to A) remove cover, B) buy a round (out of respect for all) and C) apologize to the Queen. Until a particular Sikh pointed out the fact that he could not enter these esteemed establishments due to his turban.

Upon reviewing the facts.... and some abashed foot-shuffling... the rules were changed to welcome the Sikh's into these soldiers haven's. For at the very least, if a man is good enough to fight alongside, he is more than good enough to drink alongside.

Or play darts, shuffleboard, pool, snooker, cards, etc.

In THIS case, it was a matter of perspective and view.
 
#10
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

Allow me to expand, just a bit. My grandfather was one of the signatories that began our local legion upon returning home from the war. Not only that, but he also helped design and build the original building. In his off hours, from working as a Service Mgr. at the local CAT dealership.

At the time, demography being what it was (here and most places across Canada) there weren't hardly any Sikh's around. That being said, it wasn't until the mid 60's where Grampa stated that he saw his first. (His theater of operations was Holland, and west Germany)

So anyways, it just simply wasn't a concern OR an issue, until one day it was pointed out that it was. There were many MANY soldiers who didn't want the rule changed. UNTIL their (the Sikh's) service history was brought up.

Those men fought alongside 'us' with their turbans on (and not a helmet) ergo they can drink alongside us too. Just like anyone else, and as it should be.

Some of the old stodgers were against that for some time. I, myself, see no issue whatsoever.

Meanwhile, there are many who see the "changing of the dress uniform" of the RCMP as pushing the limits, though. It'd been the uniform for a few centuries, with the understanding of requirement upon application to....

But that is a whole other can of worms, best left for another thread in the least.
 
#12
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

Join an organization and don't like the rules. Get it changed just for you or a very small part of society that it really has no benefit for because you knew what you were signing up for. Sounds like American these days.
 
#13
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Um, <span style="font-weight: bold">our</span> armed forces, <span style="font-weight: bold">our</span> rules. Last time I checked no one has been forced to join against their will for several years. </div></div>

<span style="font-style: italic">Our?</span> You gotta hip me to the part of that "our" that makes it "yours" so that you can decide what is and isn't American enough to serve and possibly die for "your" cause.
 
#15
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

Would it help some of you individuals, if I were to re-iterate the fact that we're talking about ALLIED FORCES,,, not necessarily members from the same country?

Ie The Canadians, AmeriYanks, Brits, Aussie's, Indian's, etc..... we're all ALLIES. Wouldn't/shouldn't/couldn't we all drink together, if we've shed blood together?

I'm sure there's some sparking in the wires somewhere.... somebody's getting a "ground-fault".
 
#16
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 50calcruiser</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Um, our armed forces, our rules. Last time I checked no one has been forced to join against their will for several years. </div></div>
Ahh yes our armed forces. No turbans allowed since 1865.
zouav.jpg


@Sean
You may or may not be aware that a Sikh took command of the BC Regiment a couple months ago, he's also a pretty eloquent speaker.
 
#17
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

I'm disappointed that this is seen as an issue. Freedom of religion covers all religions, including those currently in an unfortunate spotlight of ignorant generalization. Muslim, Jew, Christian, etc... an American is an American, the fact that these people are serving their country should be the focus of this story, and that the country has a mechanism to give them equal respect. Perhaps some people have manipulated these mechanisms for selfserving reasons not of the original intent, but how is that different than manipulating your freedom of speech to express an ignorant opinion?
 
#18
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

When one joins the armed forces they GIVE UP SOME RIGHTS, that is part of the program. Your 1st adm rights are almost gone! To allow a group to dictate what head gear the military must allow is placing uniform discipline in the hands of those not in the command. For example: what if a new little "church" had as part of its "rules": no member shall shine shoes/or wear shined shoes. How about, all members shall wear sun shades during day light hours? The list could go on and on. How big a "church" would be required before the DoD had to "kiss their butts"? One man-ten-a million? I can easily see how quickly and easily this thing could get out of hand. One rule for all, or how about-one uniform code for all? I like that idea, in short: all being treated equally, no "special treatment".
 
#20
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

I wonder if this would be allowed?
The Rastafarian Culture and Spiritual Belief in Jah



Rastafarians believe in respect for all living creatures and hold self respect in high regard. Spiritual freedom is also an important aspect of the Rastafari movement and belief in the culture of their African past. Part of the Rasta’s belief is the total rejection of Babylon or the modern society and way of living. The exact Rastafari religion seems open to individual interpretation but all strive to worship Jah Rasafari with their way of life. Rasta’s only eat foods that are pure and without artificial additives. Rastafarians mostly abstain from coffee, added salt, tobacco, strong alcohol, pork and shellfish. They will smoke the herb though as this helps with their spiritual enlightenment, opens the mind and is supposed to bring them closer to Jah. Rasta's also believe in eternal life and immortality as did the famous Bob Marley. Considered as a legend of Rastafari movement, with his dreadlocks Bob Marley helped spread the Rasta word by touring with his Jamaican music and strong belief in the Rasta religion.
As the "smoking of the herb" is one way of saying, "smoking dope", if one claims to be a rasta, then a pos drug test should not be held against them? right?
 
#22
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sundown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder if this would be allowed?
The Rastafarian Culture and Spiritual Belief in Jah



Rastafarians believe in respect for all living creatures and hold self respect in high regard. Spiritual freedom is also an important aspect of the Rastafari movement and belief in the culture of their African past. Part of the Rasta’s belief is the total rejection of Babylon or the modern society and way of living. The exact Rastafari religion seems open to individual interpretation but all strive to worship Jah Rasafari with their way of life. Rasta’s only eat foods that are pure and without artificial additives. Rastafarians mostly abstain from coffee, added salt, tobacco, strong alcohol, pork and shellfish. They will smoke the herb though as this helps with their spiritual enlightenment, opens the mind and is supposed to bring them closer to Jah. Rasta's also believe in eternal life and immortality as did the famous Bob Marley. Considered as a legend of Rastafari movement, with his dreadlocks Bob Marley helped spread the Rasta word by touring with his Jamaican music and strong belief in the Rasta religion.
As the "smoking of the herb" is one way of saying, "smoking dope", if one claims to be a rasta, then a pos drug test should not be held against them? right? </div></div>
Look boys and girls. A strawman!
What if the Amish decided to join the armed forces en masse. We'd have to give them lanterns, horses, and sundials and arm them with pitchforks, an affront to America! Hurr.
 
#23
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

Strawman? It appears some poorly informed are commenting. Rasta's have brought numerous suits against the U.S. to use dope-even in prison! Reason? 1st adm, one need only google rasta's and "legal marijuana" use. Here is an example:
On September 28, 2004, hearings were scheduled before the U.S. Federal Court in Philadelphia Pa in regards to violation notices issued on December 20, 2003 and March 20, 2004 and April 17, 2004 to Ed Forchion and Pat Duff in connection with their actions of smoking marijuana in Independence National Historical Park. The defendants, representing themselves as RASTAFARIANS, submitted to the Court and the government a pleading denominated as “Motion: To Dismiss ‘Affirmative Defense’ of Religious Freedom (42 U.S.C. §2004bb(a)).”


At the hearing on September 28, 2004, the defendants invoked the protections of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (“RFRA”), 42 U.S.C. § 2000bb-1, claiming to be Rastafarians who were using marijuana in a religious ceremony. They further claim that the Ninth Circuit in Guam v. Guerrero, 290 F.3d 1210 (9th Cir. 2002) held that “the RFRA forbids prosecuting Rastafarians for using marijuana within the federal realm, such as a United States territory or a national park.”

The Government admitts that under limited circumstances, the RFRA creates an affirmative defense in a criminal prosecution but cliams these two individuals are not practicing religion but staging a "political protest" of the drug laws.

On Nov 10th, 2004 Judge rapoport agreed with the Federal Prosecutor and convicted these two individuals, on Nov 12th, 2004 they were sentenced to one year FEDERAL PROBATION.

Take a look at this case in PHILADELPHIA PENN. (USA) http://www.njweedman.com/smokeout

This isn't a wild case of "what if", but rather, an ongoing series of law suits, costing Americans piles of money in the Federal courts. Sooner or later, it will be argued in Fed Court,that the military should/must allow rasta's to use their drugs.
 
#24
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PanaDP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To the OP: Why, exactly, does this piss you off? I want details. I have my own idea of why but I would love to hear it from your perspective.</div></div>

For the reasons you've already mentioned.

The last time I checked, this is America and that means when you join the military, you conform to what the military uniform code is. If you don't like it, don't join!

We've gone from printing Spanish on damn near everything that's sold in America, to allowing religious groups to dictate how they should be allowed to dress in our military. Oh, sure, right now it's only the headgear but...when does it stop?!

This is America, also referred to as "the land of opportunity". That means, you have the opportunity to LEARN ENGLISH and you also have the opportunity to join the military and when you do, that means you CONFORM to the guidelines of the military. If that's a problem...they can feel free to get the fuck out!

 
#25
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

Then there's the whole concept of "this is how we do things here" which is generally the reason why "over here" is better than "back there".

If things were so bad "back there", and "over here" looks/ed so much better, then why did you come? If you want things the way they were "back there" then feel free to leave, and go back to "back there" where things are/were so much better for you to begin with.

Oh, right... things were shitty "back there" which is why you came "over here" to enjoy the greatness. Don't try to change things "over here" because we don't want it to be like it was "back there". Our ancestors left "back there" many many years ago, because they sucked back then, too.

So really, who should be doing the 'adapting' and the 'changing' and the 'accepting'?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!!!
 
#26
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

I thought they left there to come here to have freedom of religion because they were being persecuted? Why would we persecute people for doing what our people once did?
 
#27
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought they left there to come here to have freedom of religion because they were being persecuted? Why would we persecute people for doing what our people once did? </div></div>

Freedom of religion is great and it's one of the many things that makes America great, however, expecting everyone to make accommodations such as what is being referred to in this article is pure bullshit. No one is being persecuted so I don't know how you came up with that crap. When you emigrate to another nation, you accept their laws...including the requirements of joining their military if you so choose to enlist.

The next thing you know, someone who holds their Scotland heritage in high reguard will be requesting they be allowed to wear a skirt (kilt) on the front lines, if they haven't already.
 
#29
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

it is simple..not hard to understand.

This country is founded on rules and laws. There are far too many exceptions and "turning a blind eye" currently in the US. This is a major problem. Without rules, chaos ensues. Just look at the idiots on TV/internet mobbing stores over nike shoes and black friday sales. Look at the federal government that fails to whole-heartedly fight to keep our borders secure and give the boot to people here in the country illegally draining our resources (school overpopulation, hospitals flooded with no pay patients, even tax refunds).

Uniforms for instance are made identical for a reason. You are NOT an individual when you join the US military. You are part of the a bigger organization. Your personal choices (be it religion, fashion sense, chip on your shoulder...whatever) are not allowed or wanted. You are part of a team. That team has a uniform. If you want to be part of that team, you have to make concessions because being part of a team requires that everyone be on level playing ground. No one person is special. That being said, when you are on personal time, the rules are less stringent and I'm not opposed to people wearing exposed christian crosses, jewish stars, religous hats.

No reasonable person is saying that a muslim cannot be in the US military. They are simply stating the fact that the military has rules that you must follow. A uniform is one of the easiest rules to follow. If you cannot accept that, you will have a really hard time serving in the US military.

One of the greatest things about this country is our tolerance of others. However, they require that everyone has that same level of tolerance. It is a 2 way street. Follow the rules/laws...treat others as you would like to be treated...and the world will be a better place
 
#30
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Maelek</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it is simple..not hard to understand.

This country is founded on rules and laws. There are far too many exceptions and "turning a blind eye" currently in the US. This is a major problem. Without rules, chaos ensues. Just look at the idiots on TV/internet mobbing stores over nike shoes and black friday sales. Look at the federal government that fails to whole-heartedly fight to keep our borders secure and give the boot to people here in the country illegally draining our resources (school overpopulation, hospitals flooded with no pay patients, even tax refunds).

Uniforms for instance are made identical for a reason. You are NOT an individual when you join the US military. You are part of the a bigger organization. Your personal choices (be it religion, fashion sense, chip on your shoulder...whatever) are not allowed or wanted. You are part of a team. That team has a uniform. If you want to be part of that team, you have to make concessions because being part of a team requires that everyone be on level playing ground. No one person is special. That being said, when you are on personal time, the rules are less stringent and I'm not opposed to people wearing exposed christian crosses, jewish stars, religous hats.

No reasonable person is saying that a muslim cannot be in the US military. They are simply stating the fact that the military has rules that you must follow. A uniform is one of the easiest rules to follow. If you cannot accept that, you will have a really hard time serving in the US military.

One of the greatest things about this country is our tolerance of others. However, they require that everyone has that same level of tolerance. It is a 2 way street. Follow the rules/laws...treat others as you would like to be treated...and the world will be a better place</div></div>


Very well stated and that is my point exactly!
 
#31
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

Veer_G,

It is no different than trying to wear a Kirpan in a court house.

There are rules in place that serve a higher, immediate, collective purpose that supersede the practice of religion but do not in anyway repress or denigrate that persons right to practice their religion collectively in public or in private.
 
#32
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shark0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Veer_G,

It is no different than trying to wear a Kirpan in a court house.

There are rules in place that serve a higher, immediate, collective purpose that supersede the practice of religion but do not in anyway repress or denigrate that persons right to practice their religion collectively in public or in private.

</div></div>

Don't waste your time trying to explain because simple logic is something he cannot comprehend and anything he perceives to be an attack, he refers to as racism.
 
#33
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

Fucktards, ALL! Let me school you on military and what has been acceptable for eons. Jewish members in service have been allowed to wear their head gear for a very long time. I have seen yamakuhs that were not able to be fully covered by USMC headgear as well as different versions of USA headgear. Half you fucktards can't even tell the difference between an Indian, or a Muslim due to the fog of your ignorance.
If you have ever served with integrity and honor, you would know damn well that what we fight for is the freedom of religion, as well as the freedom from religion. These are individual stances, but by the very values and ideals we bleed, sweat, and die for, we MUST accept a hijab as well as a yamakuh and a turban if we are to insure the freedom's we so love.
I would rather serve with ten sihk's tha one redneck ignoramous buffoon.
As to those who served, step in to the 21st Century Buck Rogers
FUCK, what a bunch of fucking fucktard fucks. Someone needs to lock this bitch down before it really gets stupid
 
#34
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

I wear a uniform and a badge everyday. Trust me, I fully appreciate the value of a uniform and I fully understand the balance between accommodation and maintaining a functional organization. I've worked under a chain of command for nearly half my life. The point here is, the system must continue to evolve based on the demands of those who are part of the system. Does that mean accommodating everyone, no of course not, it's unrealistic to think a functional organization can accomidate the needs of every individual. If you know how then please share. My point here is the system must continue to evolve, just like our constitution, to change with the demands of the time. If that means adjusting headdress regulations then so be it. Language, so be it. Traditions are rich in this country and we must maintain them but to deny the system the ability to evolve will quickly return us to the situations that our ancestors fled from in the first place.
 
#35
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fucktards, ALL! Let me school you on military and what has been acceptable for eons. Jewish members in service have been allowed to wear their head gear for a very long time. I have seen yamakuhs that were not able to be fully covered by USMC headgear as well as different versions of USA headgear. Half you fucktards can't even tell the difference between an Indian, or a Muslim due to the fog of your ignorance.
If you have ever served with integrity and honor, you would know damn well that what we fight for is the freedom of religion, as well as the freedom from religion. These are individual stances, but by the very values and ideals we bleed, sweat, and die for, we MUST accept a hijab as well as a yamakuh and a turban if we are to insure the freedom's we so love.
I would rather serve with ten sihk's tha one redneck ignoramous buffoon.
As to those who served, step in to the 21st Century Buck Rogers
FUCK, what a bunch of fucking fucktard fucks. Someone needs to lock this bitch down before it really gets stupid </div></div>

This +1
 
#36
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valere</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wear a uniform and a badge everyday. Trust me, I fully appreciate the value of a uniform and I fully understand the balance between accommodation and maintaining a functional organization. I've worked under a chain of command for nearly half my life. The point here is, the system must continue to evolve based on the demands of those who are part of the system. Does that mean accommodating everyone, no of course not, it's unrealistic to think a functional organization can accomidate the needs of every individual. If you know how then please share. My point here is the system must continue to evolve, just like our constitution, to change with the demands of the time. If that means adjusting headdress regulations then so be it. Language, so be it. Traditions are rich in this country and we must maintain them but to deny the system the ability to evolve will quickly return us to the situations that our ancestors fled from in the first place.

</div></div>

You've made some very good and valid points. Thank you, as it is something to think about.
 
#38
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valere</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wear a uniform and a badge everyday. Trust me, I fully appreciate the value of a uniform and I fully understand the balance between accommodation and maintaining a functional organization. I've worked under a chain of command for nearly half my life. The point here is, the system must continue to evolve based on the demands of those who are part of the system. Does that mean accommodating everyone, no of course not, it's unrealistic to think a functional organization can accomidate the needs of every individual. If you know how then please share. My point here is the system must continue to evolve, just like our constitution, to change with the demands of the time. If that means adjusting headdress regulations then so be it. Language, so be it. Traditions are rich in this country and we must maintain them but to deny the system the ability to evolve will quickly return us to the situations that our ancestors fled from in the first place.

</div></div>

It is this great society and its rules that allow for freedom of religion not the religions themselves.

By their very nature religions do not make accommodation for others beliefs. In fact they encourage others to follow their way and their way alone or be damned.

Thus it is our society, its rules and its open approach to individual freedoms that needs to come first above all others.

Individuals can choose their role within our society whereas changing our society to conform to an individuals belief will only unbalance the system.

As stated previously this does not in anyway denigrate or deprive an individual or group from practicing their religion, belief system or any other individual freedom but standards must be upheld. A watered down version of our society that attempts to placate individual groups does not serve the greater good.
 
#40
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Switchblade</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fucktards, ALL! Let me school you on military and what has been acceptable for eons. Jewish members in service have been allowed to wear their head gear for a very long time. I have seen yamakuhs that were not able to be fully covered by USMC headgear as well as different versions of USA headgear. Half you fucktards can't even tell the difference between an Indian, or a Muslim due to the fog of your ignorance.
If you have ever served with integrity and honor, you would know damn well that what we fight for is the freedom of religion, as well as the freedom from religion. These are individual stances, but by the very values and ideals we bleed, sweat, and die for, we MUST accept a hijab as well as a yamakuh and a turban if we are to insure the freedom's we so love.
I would rather serve with ten sihk's tha one redneck ignoramous buffoon.
As to those who served, step in to the 21st Century Buck Rogers
FUCK, what a bunch of fucking fucktard fucks. Someone needs to lock this bitch down before it really gets stupid </div></div>

Although it pains me to say it... +1
 
#41
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Valere</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wear a uniform and a badge everyday. Trust me, I fully appreciate the value of a uniform and I fully understand the balance between accommodation and maintaining a functional organization. I've worked under a chain of command for nearly half my life. The point here is, the system must continue to evolve based on the demands of those who are part of the system. Does that mean accommodating everyone, no of course not, it's unrealistic to think a functional organization can accomidate the needs of every individual. If you know how then please share. My point here is the system must continue to evolve, just like our constitution, to change with the demands of the time. If that means adjusting headdress regulations then so be it. Language, so be it. Traditions are rich in this country and we must maintain them but to deny the system the ability to evolve will quickly return us to the situations that our ancestors fled from in the first place.

</div></div>

+100
 
#42
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

My grandson is in his junior year on a ROTC Scholorship at Portland State. All his life he wanted to be an Infantry Officer like his grandpa.

I don't care what the DoD says, he starts that crap he knows very will grandpa would kick his ass.

Having said that, I agree, we have uniforms for a purpose. Uniformity, making everyone the same.

To allow everyone to go their own way, would be the end of the military as we know it.

It's not like the suckers were drafted, you join an outfit, you play by their rules. You don't change the rules to fit the individual.
 
#43
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

Ok so I tried to argue as devils advocate but I completely agree that uniformity is what the military is all about. There should not be an exception for anyone unless you are attending a religious service or something of the likes..
 
#44
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

As a fucktard I'm starting a new religion, everyone is going to want to join. It's called "The Most Holy Awesome Bang A Whore Every Ten Minutes Church Of Awesome." This is not a religion for the faint of heart or physically unfit. Yes, it is exhausting but no one ever said getting into heaven was easy. While I'm not a member of the military as soon as my new religion is recognized I'm signing up and demanding the military accommodate me.

As a side thought, if I was in Afghanistan and fighting Taliban (who from the pictures I've seen wear some sort of head dress)I think I would want to be dressed as closely to my buddies as possible to avoid any confusion in the heat of battle. I wonder if it's reasons like this that the military has a dress code?

I don't think this issue has shit to do with religion (that is a a shitty argument for those who like to play the race card), just people wanting to be treated special for no reason other than they can get away with it.
 
#45
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IdahoMike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is interesting I am sure this is what Middle Eastern Countries are saying as well don't you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It is bullshit and it won't stop until we have completely lost our national identity and sovereignty. We must conform to the standards of the "world".
</div></div></div></div>

No, it's more like " duba duba ah dubbity dubba derka dubba dub..." </div></div>

Or...kaderka derka, burcca burcca...
 
#46
Re: Defense Dept. To Allow Head Scarfs in JROTC

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: IdahoMike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Doug.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is interesting I am sure this is what Middle Eastern Countries are saying as well don't you think?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
It is bullshit and it won't stop until we have completely lost our national identity and sovereignty. We must conform to the standards of the "world".
</div></div></div></div>

No, it's more like " duba duba ah dubbity dubba derka dubba dub..." </div></div>

Or...kaderka derka, burcca burcca... </div></div>

Do you people even hear yourselves, or is this just the deafening drone that runs through your heads when you spot someone suspicious, like me? And people wonder why it is that I cling so steadily to God and guns ...
 
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