Demoralizing day at the range

[SpookyPistolero]

I'm not at all new to shooting (which means exactly squat) but I'm new to real precision shooting. I went shooting today at 100 and 200 yards with my my savage 22 and 700 in 308. Man, I am garbage behind a rifle. I've shot idpa, had a couple of carbine courses, but I just can't keep a decent group. It was to the point that I was checking to see if the scope was loose. I'd have a rough 1 moa group, then some randomness. I did the dot torture targets and some would be on the dot, some were insane.

I read constantly on technique, dry fire, but it's clearly not translating to accuracy. I want to take a precision course, but I think more remedial work is in order.

I found an appleseed shoot about two hours away away from me, I believe I will make time for it this summer. Past that, I'm not sure what to try!

Not sure I have a clear goal with this post except to lament my mediocrity! But any advice will be taken quite seriously, haha. Anyone had this sort of rut?

 

[Pester]

Everyone is mediocre at some point....guess it depends on how you define your goals. There are a lot of folks here who could help however they cant give you real world feedback. My recommendation is:
1. Assume you will have to practice a lot and save for that
2. sign up for some of the online training videos here. Well worth the money. You can also augment those by searching under nssf on you tube and you can get access to a lot of primer videos
3. go to a shoot and ask for feedback. My experience is that those interested in accuracy/distance shooting is a small group and very willing to help each other.

You could also take your rifle to a smith and make sure that there is nothing functional that needs to be done.

Keep shooting

 

[Ultraman550]

Anyone had this sort of rut?

If anybody says they haven't then they haven't tried. For me it just clicked one day. I've only finally reached 1000, but about 2 months ago it just clicked. Rifle position, holds, etc.. If this sport was easy it would be boring. Failing just makes you more passionate about succeeding and hitting those milestones you set for yourself is one of the best feelings out there.

 

[Dogtown]

It happens to everyone eventually. Stepping back and forcing yourself to walk through the fundamentals from time to time isn't a bad idea.

 

[--BLACKOUT--]

Same thing happened with me... one day, BAM, everything clicked. I would read all I could on this site and take 1, maybe 2 aspects I wanted to get better at. To hell with what the paper said, I just worked on fixing one thing at a time. I kept plugging away and one day, I could see hits on paper through the scope at 100yds. From there, I moved back further and further until things came apart again and I would start all over.

All it takes is time and money!

 

[I Am Hero]

Surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet but what is your setup on the .308? Custom rifle? Heavy barreled factory rifle? Sporter contour? Hand loads?

If you take a 700 ADL in .308 and stick surplus .308 ammo I wouldn't expect anything either haha. I figure since you have taken carbine courses and shot IDPA then you know a good chunk of info already, but it is always worth asking what your gear is.

 

[Diablo]

So, have you really gotten to the basics? How's your caffeine intake? Did you get a good night's sleep? Have you been worried/frustrated about other things in your life, that may be running over into your shooting? Were you shooting from a good, steady rest? Was it a windy day? Were you using ammunition that you had previously done well with, or was this an experimental trip? When all else fails, move closer, see a good eye doctor, use a shotgun, or call Dr. Phil.

 

[SpookyPistolero]

Thanks so much for the responses guys. Seriously. I will be mulling over of this extensively.

The rifle is a rem 700 aac-sd in a B&C medalist stock. Scope is a vortex 4-16, using federal 168gr match ammo. I'm in the middle of trying to decide whether to get a whole new rifle, chassis system, or reloading setup. I'm kind of at a loss here. It would really help to have someone shoot this rifle who knew what they were doing, so I could start ruling things out.

I wish I could nail down am 'x' factor here, in terms of sleep or caffeine intake, etc. But I can't find much to blame except myself.

I'm going to keep at it regardless. I'm going to search for every resource I can find and start from scratch.

Are the training videos here a wise move in the absence of one-on-one instruction? Certainly willing to give that a try.

Again, I appreciate the responses so far!

 

[Flyinghunter]

Paraphrased old saying...But a bad day at the range is better than a good day at work?

 

[sirhrmechanic]

Spooky: Precision shooting is not something you just 'do' by having equipment and a free day at the range.

It's a skill you evolve. A bad first day should merely motivate you to have a better second day and an even better third day... and by day X you will be doing great.

When I graduated police academy a decade ago, my classmates asked me how my shooting scores were so high. I told them my secret... 10,000 rounds a year every year since I was about 14... I graduated the academy at age 40 (second career). Putting lead down range has been the work of a lifetime. How's that for the worst kept secret ever?

Keep at it. Every day you will get a bit better. And earning a skill is always more satisfying than simply getting handed it. If you're limited as to $$ and time shooting big bore... get an air gun. As I wrote in another post earlier this evening... the fundamentals are the fundamentals. Doesn't matter if they are developed with a TRG or a .22 or a .177. Master the little gun and the big one will be easy.

Cheers and keep at it.

Sirhr

 

[SpookyPistolero]

Thanks much, I agree. I didn't mean to imply this is my first rodeo. I have a number of range sessions at this, but less than convincing skill to accompany it. I've labored under the belief that talent comes after the long haul. Regardless, I'm going to keep at it. Perhaps more with rimfire than with match ammo at a buck a round!

 

[Slim Chance]

Spooky,
Take someone who is an experienced rifleman on your next range trip. He can observe your technique and help you. Your set up sounds good. Stability and consistency are the keys.

 

[steve123]

Next time out make sure the parallax error is dialed out on your scope. Your scope can appear focused but the parallax error can still be present. You can determine error is dialed out by moving your eye around while looking through the scope. If the reticle is jumping around as you move your eye then PE is present. You want the reticle to remain still as you move your eye around while looking through the scope.

Also check every fastener on the entire scope, mount and rifle system.

If you are shooting crap factory ammo then expect crappy groups. EDIT, dinner was ready so I didn't get a chance to read entire thread. FGMM will do the trick.

Same goes for the 22.

 

[bobtodrick]

I think many of us need to keep in mind that many of the really good, consistent shooters put a heck of a lot more ammo downrange than most of us.
I come from a photographic background (mainly as a supplier) and one of my customers a few years back made a very valid point. He said that a lot of hobbyists could produce one or two images that were every bit as good...if not better than what he was paid a lot of money to make. But he was so well paid because he did it every single day and could more or less guarantee that while not every one of his images would be an award winner...they would all be damn good.
Same with shooting. I started precision shooting about 3 years ago. (as in 100 to 200m with .22WMR).
The first summer...maybe one out of four outings made me happy. (usually shoot every weekend)
Not great so I bought a better scope...2.5 times the price of the rifle.
Had it properly bedded and a custom trigger.
2nd summer I was happy with about 1/2 my outings.
Now I'm happy most of the times if their isn't problematic wind (my next issue to work on).
There really is nothing I can pinpoint over the last year to account for the improvement except the fact that I've put in enough time behind the thing that a lot of stuff like breathing, cheekweld and so forth are now starting to become second nature (I'm sure I'm not the only one who has sat behind the gun and been really conscious that my cheekweld just does not feel exactly the same as the last shot...so I make adjustments which I know are likely self defeating).
I had a friend of mine who teaches precision shooting to LE personnel tell me that if you decide to make a small change in your shooting that you hope will make an improvement...that it will take at least 1000 rounds before that change becomes 2nd nature. Again, he says (and it makes sense if you believe in the above) that too many times shooters make a bunch of changes at once to try and find the 'cure', without ever getting consistent enough at any of the changes to have them really make an improvement.
I guess all this drivel really boils down to...if you've discounted hardware issues...that training and time is of paramount importance.

 

[LanceS4803]

I started shooting competitively at a young age with the Jaycee's Daisy BB Gun tournaments, at local, state and international levels.
Talk about learning the fundamentals! And, at just 15 feet. An X is an X, at any distance. The margin of error with a .177 projectile is pretty darned small.
Don't underestimate what fundamentals can be learned at short distances, with unconventional weapons.
(I still shoot these airguns every now and then. Even took it to work to assist one of our LEOs who was having a rifle accuracy issue.)

You may also find a day shooting with Appleseed enlightening.

 

[marduk185]

The Human League - Human - YouTube

 

[997/2man]

I shot my 1st rifle match 41 years ago.


Don't beat yourself up.


YOU SHOULD SEE ME GOLF! AHAAHAAHAAHHAA!

 

[alpine44]

As mentioned before, you need to measure your practice in thousands of rounds or 8# jugs of powder before you can get close to the accuracy a good rifle can deliver.

If we assume that the rifle/ammo/scope combination is sound (which a more experienced shooter could verify) and shoot on a calm day, we have to avoid the following accuracy killers:

- Bad trigger habits
- Inappropriate and inconsistent rest of the gun (especially with lighter rifles)
- Parallax

Have someone load you rounds without powder and spent primers and have someone on the line insert them in your magazine/gun. When you drop the firing pin on one of the dummies you will see how clean your trigger pull is.

To avoid parallax, adjust the scope to the firing distance if possible and make sure you are looking straight into the tube by checking the shadow around the field of vision. Also, check for cant at this point.

To learn letting a high power rifle recoil in a consistent fashion (the gun moves as soon as the bullet moves down the barrel) is going to take the most practice.

 

[alpine44]

Forgot one of the most important things in life - breathing.

While you align the reticle with the target, let it come to rest naturally on the X towards the bottom of the exhalation without straining or getting blue in your face. Then, take another slow, relaxed breath and SMOOTHLY pull the trigger on the bottom of that cycle. Practice this "rhythm" with your 22 by only gazing into the distance at first. Then add sight alignment to it.

In the beginning, it does not matter how many breaths you take until you are ready to fire. Just focus on NOT holding your breath and ripping the trigger through because you had a brief moment of decent sight alignment. When shooting from an unstable position where you cannot get a steady sight alignment it is much better to "stir" around the X while smoothly pulling the trigger through, rather than taking a "snap" shot.


You can see the rhythm and a lot of other good habits in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjG1JZxiui0

 

[delfuego]

Check your parallax!!!

 

[Switchblade]

Fundamentals:
Proper Sight alignment
Proper Sight picture
Proper body position
Breathe, Relax, Aim, Stop Breathing, Squeeze(BRASS)
PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE...you get the idea, as this part goes ad nauseum(until you are sick of it)

Practice all of this at 100M until you are beyond frustration and can shoot every round into one ragged hole. 3 rounds, 5 rounds, 10 rounds, 20 rounds
Now you are ready for the 200M line(HAHAHAHA). Repeat the above until you have every round into a 1/2" circle
Then comes the fun...300M. Oh, you think you're good, HA! 1.5" circle. You DO remember that ad nauseum line, right? That word frustration? Yeah, work past it with PRACTICE(oh, that stuff, again...)

Guess what? It's also a perishable skill, so you get to do it the rest of your life, or, you can go play golf or billiards(Both are cheaper)

 

[djskit]

I have buddy that just got into precision riflery - he is a very successful/sponsored 3 gun competitior, but is having a real hard time transitioning.

He was all over the place in the last match I was R.O.ing and I made it a point to watch his technique. He was btch lapping the hell out of the trigger. I'm calling him "pimp hand strong" from now on.

Point being, tens of thousands of reptitions of his 3-gun trigger style really did him a dis-service when it came to precision work. He's doing tons of dry firing with property trigger technique but it will be a long road.