Diagonal Stringing

[Jayman_10X]

To my SH brothers,

Need your help again. Here's the deal: I have a 300 WM that overall shoots well, but I know it can do better. It is a new build. The trouble I am having during load development is groups that shoot well, or not, tend to have diagonal stringing, and always in the same direction - lower left to upper right. Thinking it was poor technique on my part, I had a top shooter try it out and he experienced the same issue. The gunsmith who did the build warned me before completion that the wood stock was particularily soft. I had them finish the build with the soft stock and the rifle does perform, I have obtained groups in the low .3's but I suspect it can do much better. I believe I have it narrowed down to one or two things:

1. Soft stock (it was glass/pillar bedded at time of build)
2. Old scope (has peformed flawlessly in the past on a 260 Rem).

So the question I ask is: Has anyone had similar experiences like this? Please share your observations.


thanks in advance,
Jay

 

[Chiller]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

.3 and this is bad?

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

No - but it's not consistent. I know it can shoot in the .1's.

 

[slothlacrosse]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

0.1 MOA? I think you need to check your math.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No - but it's not consistent. I know it can shoot in the .1's. </div></div>

How do you "know" this?

 

[Chiller]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No - but it's not consistent. I know it can shoot in the .1's. </div></div>

Absent Tac Ops I have not seen many rifles that would say .1 all day....any day.....

 

[Chiller]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

and are we talking 3 round....5 round.....10 round groups?

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

We're looking at 3 round groups. And yes I know the rifle will do it, but thanks for asking.

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No - but it's not consistent. I know it can shoot in the .1's. </div></div>

Absent Tac Ops I have not seen many rifles that would say .1 all day....any day.....
</div></div>

Not hard to find these days - if you combine top skill shooting with an equal rifle.

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: slothlacrosse</div><div class="ubbcode-body">0.1 MOA? I think you need to check your math. </div></div>

No.

 

[Chiller]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We're looking at 3 round groups. And yes I know the rifle will do it, but thanks for asking. </div></div>

If you "know the rifle will do it" then repeat what it takes to get the .1 and drive on......?

 

[Hosshunter]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

Check that your scope is level and in line directly over your bore.

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We're looking at 3 round groups. And yes I know the rifle will do it, but thanks for asking. </div></div>

If you "know the rifle will do it" then repeat what it takes to get the .1 and drive on......? </div></div>

Thanks for all your help.

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hosshunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check that your scope is level and in line directly over your bore. </div></div>

Hoss - That's probably not the case - scope/rings were removed from a Surgeon 591 and installed on a Surgeon 1086R. so they are almost certainly in line. It very well could be a slight hiccup internally with the scope. The scope is about 10 years old and has been used a lot. I plan to borrow a different scope for it and try her out; just to isolate the variables.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

don't ya love it when they "know"... and .1 MOA is "Not hard to find these days"


dude... IF you KNOW, and .1 MOA isn't hard... stop asking questions and start teaching... or at least winning EVERY match in the country

 

[billyburl2]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

Sounds like breathing to me.

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">don't ya love it when they "know"... and .1 MOA is "Not hard to find these days"


dude... IF you KNOW, and .1 MOA isn't hard... stop asking questions and start teaching... or at least winning EVERY match in the country </div></div>

Hey Force, if you have nothing useful to add please ago away. What's happening to this forum?

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: billyburl2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sounds like breathing to me. </div></div>

If it was the case with one shooter I may agree, but the issue occurs with two different shooters.

 

[billyburl2]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

Maybe the stock doesn't fit either one you then. Maybe it's the load. Maybe a gnat has persistent gas...

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

Hard to say. My original question was if anyone had a similar experience before (diagonal stringing). So far no?

About this business of .1 rifle. I would suggest read Warren Page's timeless <span style="font-style: italic">Accurate Shooter</span>, published 1973. A great read to this day, Warren predicted a near "one hole future" and when you compare materials, machining, equipment of today it's not even comparable to Page's day. There are a lot of good shooters and rifles today who can hold the .1's and .2's with regularity. This is news?

 

[Chiller]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

Have tried to be soft about it and let you think it though. Let me be BLUNT.
If and that is a big IF you can hit in the .1 “any day….any time” you are on the wrong forum. There are multiple BR guys out there who hold significant records that would not make that claim.

I know call me silly.....

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek077/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek0101/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek071/

 

[Cacciatore]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

When bought a Howa there was a note in the box saying that if their barrel break in procedure was not followed, that when the barrel heated, it would walk high right. The break in involved using windex as copper solvent, so I don't know how great their other advice is either.

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have tried to be soft about it and let you think it though. Let me be BLUNT.
If and that is a big IF you can hit in the .1 “any day….any time” you are on the wrong forum. There are multiple BR guys out there who hold significant records that would not make that claim.

I know call me silly.....

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek077/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek0101/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek071/
</div></div>

Chiller - do you have any experiences of diagonal stringing to share? No? Then please leave.
Or are we just going to spam everything in sight tonight?

 

[TRAAV]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

I've noticed this before when chanting the rifle. First shot your nice and square. When you fire the first round the rifle tourqes and you fire the next, soon and do forth.

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cacciatore</div><div class="ubbcode-body">When bought a Howa there was a note in the box saying that if their barrel break in procedure was not followed, that when the barrel heated, it would walk high right. The break in involved using windex as copper solvent, so I don't know how great their other advice is either. </div></div>

That's interesting. I actually have not used a formal procedure to break the barrel in. Just never had to in the past. This is my first barrel of a specific brand. So that may be an issue, although the barrel cleans with ease. Hey - thanks for the input!

 

[Chiller]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have tried to be soft about it and let you think it though. Let me be BLUNT.
If and that is a big IF you can hit in the .1 “any day….any time” you are on the wrong forum. There are multiple BR guys out there who hold significant records that would not make that claim.

I know call me silly.....

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek077/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek0101/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek071/
</div></div>

Chiller - do you have any experiences of diagonal stringing to share? No? Then please leave.
Or are we just going to spam everything in sight tonight?
</div></div>

Sweetheart....

read this one and get back with us....

http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/max357/houston.html

.1 with a .300WM.....you rock......why were you not shooting at Perry today then?

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TRAAV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've noticed this before when chanting the rifle. First shot your nice and square. When you fire the first round the rifle tourqes and you fire the next, soon and do forth. </div></div>

Hmmm - possibility there. The other shooter used the same rest and we could have been holding the same (i.e. he was using my footprint).

 

[Topstrap]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

My neighbor was over here just the other day with his custom 300 Weatherby and it was doing the same thing. Got the torque wrench out and checked and his action bolts were all loose, also loaned him my bi-pod with gave a much better grip on the bench and wasn't skidding around on the table top. His groups went from diagonal stringing to a nice little cluster.

Could be any number of things, start eliminating one at a time and keep track of anything that helps.

Topstrap

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Topstrap</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My neighbor was over here just the other day with his custom 300 Weatherby and it was doing the same thing. Got the torque wrench out and checked and his action bolts were all loose, also loaned him my bi-pod with gave a much better grip on the bench and wasn't skidding around on the table top. His groups went from diagonal stringing to a nice little cluster.

Could be any number of things, start eliminating one at a time and keep track of anything that helps.

Topstrap </div></div>

Thanks Top - will do.

 

[Graham]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hosshunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check that your scope is level and in line directly over your bore. </div></div>If your scope isn't mounted over the bore you're mounting it incorrectly: Take it off the rail on the side of the stock and put it above the action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chiller - do you have any experiences of diagonal stringing to share? No? Then please leave. Or are we just going to spam everything in sight tonight? </div></div>He can't leave: He's a Moderator. He can, however, make you leave.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TRAAV</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've noticed this before when chanting the rifle. First shot your nice and square. When you fire the first round the rifle tourqes and you fire the next, soon and do forth. </div></div>Hmmm - possibility there. The other shooter used the same rest and we could have been holding the same (i.e. he was using my footprint). </div></div>I'm not sure that just any chant will work, though.

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hosshunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check that your scope is level and in line directly over your bore. </div></div>If your scope isn't mounted over the bore you're mounting it incorrectly: Take it off the rail on the side of the stock and put it above the action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chiller - do you have any experiences of diagonal stringing to share? No? Then please leave. Or are we just going to spam everything in sight tonight? </div></div>He can't leave: He's a Moderator. He can, however, make you leave. </div></div>

If he is the moderator what does that say about this site? Yikes.

 

[Graham]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If he is the moderator what does that say about this site? Yikes. </div></div>Apparently it says that you're not fitting-in very well.

He's a moderator, not <span style="text-decoration: underline">the</span> Moderator. Look at the bottom of any page for the list of Mods.

 

[Force_Multiplier]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Force_Multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">don't ya love it when they "know"... and .1 MOA is "Not hard to find these days"


dude... IF you KNOW, and .1 MOA isn't hard... stop asking questions and start teaching... or at least winning EVERY match in the country </div></div>

Hey Force, if you have nothing useful to add please ago away. What's happening to this forum?</div></div>


what's happening to this forum?

IMHO...assholes like you that come on making bullshit claims..

mall ninja mofos that don't know shit about real shooting but REALLY like to sound cool....

just about the same as the dipshit that came to the shop yesterday talking about being a "Sniper w/ the 101st in Iraq"...his unit was the ones that went into Tikit.. and he "personally greased 17 insurgents"....

all this during 1st gulf war in '91....

338Lm this... 50BMG that....

says all this shit knowing I spent ALL my adult life in the Army... from before we first went to the Kuwait until we left Iraq...

but I'm not supposed to know he's full of shit... just like we're not supposed to know you're full of shit... IF you KNEW any rifle would shoot .1MOA all day, any day...

we'd KNOW who the hell you are...

 

[Chiller]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hosshunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Check that your scope is level and in line directly over your bore. </div></div>If your scope isn't mounted over the bore you're mounting it incorrectly: Take it off the rail on the side of the stock and put it above the action.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Chiller - do you have any experiences of diagonal stringing to share? No? Then please leave. Or are we just going to spam everything in sight tonight? </div></div>He can't leave: He's a Moderator. He can, however, make you leave. </div></div>

If he is the moderator what does that say about this site? Yikes. </div></div>

It means I question your claims.

 

[Furtaker_.223]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

Popcorn is just about ready. Butter anyone?

 

[Boyscout618]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Furtaker_.223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Popcorn is just about ready. Butter anyone?</div></div>

Yo, pass me a bowl.

 

[DP425]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If he is the moderator what does that say about this site? Yikes. </div></div>

Says this site doesn't put up with your bullshit.

Frank's old standard of 5 on 5 needs to come back. As far as most here are concerned, if you can't post up one target with 5 groups of 5 shots... again, on the SAME target... all printing your bullshit claim... then we're going to call you on it.

My question is, if this rifle is good for .1 groups, just what the fuck are you complaining about with diagonal stringing for? Are you telling us your .1 groups are always an oblong hole??





Onto your question- which I shouldn't even humor you with. Why don't you try a 10-shot group and see what happens? Might tell you something about either how you are shooting or how the gun is adjusting itself (if it is actually a problem with the gun).

 

[Chiller]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Furtaker_.223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Popcorn is just about ready. Butter anyone? </div></div>

Layered please

 

[Furtaker_.223]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

Sounds like butter on the fingers. Need to wipe off the popcorn butter before you try and pull the trigger.

Just saying....

 

[Furtaker_.223]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Furtaker_.223</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Popcorn is just about ready. Butter anyone? </div></div>

Layered please</div></div>

That is the only way to eat popcorn.

 

[lawofsavage]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No - but it's not consistent. I know it can shoot in the .1's. </div></div>

I'm interested in the question of who built this rifle?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DP425</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> <span style="font-weight: bold">Frank's old standard of 5 on 5 needs to come back. </span>As far as most here are concerned, if you can't post up one target with 5 groups of 5 shots... again, on the SAME target... all printing your bullshit claim... then we're going to call you on it.</div></div>

Spoken for truth.

OP: post up a 5x5 and we might could legitimately give some real insight.

 

[175G]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not sure that just any chant will work, though.

</div></div>

+1 LMFAO. What chants do work? I personally am partial to "Relax Mulligan! Relax Mulligan! Relax Mulligan!"

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_aMJIVsvxsI"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_aMJIVsvxsI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

 

[shankster..]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chiller</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Have tried to be soft about it and let you think it though. Let me be BLUNT.
If and that is a big IF you can hit in the .1 “any day….any time” you are on the wrong forum. There are multiple BR guys out there who hold significant records that would not make that claim.

I know call me silly.....

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek077/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek0101/

http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek071/
</div></div>

Chiller - do you have any experiences of diagonal stringing to share? No? Then please leave.
Or are we just going to spam everything in sight tonight?
</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Hey shithead, you need to quit typing what your cock holster is saying. .1 MOA consistently? You are full of shit. Wanna make some real money? Start taking bets from people on here. We'll get someone near you to validate your claim. Money will be in escrow. If you don't want to do that, go back to giving rimjobs at truck stops. Pull your pants up and put away the lotion. This isn't fantasy here. If you shot that well, you wouldn't be asking us wtf you are doing wrong. You fail at the interweb son. The only thing you are diagonally stringing are the beads hanging out of your ass.</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">Step up or shut up. I have a $1,000.00 to start things off.</span>

 

[BillyGoatMachine]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jayman_10X</div><div class="ubbcode-body">To my SH brothers,

</div></div>

I wonder if the op still feels this way.......

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

i gots $10 on it

 

[Prebanpaul]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

I will offer some insight to this matter. Your barrel is most likley medium to thin tapper. It is heating up causing the barrel to flex, this will cause a string in your shooting.

To answer some other questions, if you have a gun that will shoot .1 your doing well. For example the world records are as follows, from the IBS (International Bench Rest shooters)

J Neary group size 5 shot .060 August 10th 2005

R Maretzo group size 10 shot .119 September 10th 1983

Now there are 10 guns that shot under the .10 group size listed on the above mentioned sight. That being said there are 6 million guns in the U.S. Do the math, your probably shooting around a .25 group. But not if your stringing them. If you doing that your groups are outside of one inch.

I have learned the hard way, that there are a lot of "snipers, and world class shooters on here that blow things way out of portion. It makes them feel good to put down another shooter instead of taking the time to educate you and help you. Someone helped me once on here so Now I will help you. You asked a question, Your heating up your barrel and for some reason its flexing.

 

[BasraBoy]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

Interesting thread....seems a little odd to ask for help when so much is "known", and then tell guys who are trying to help that they have nothing useful to offer....

Just my £0.02

If I had a rifle (let alone the ability!!) guaranteed to shoot 0.3...let alone 0.1...."all day every day", I'd be a very happy chappy!!

That's what I love about the Hide...always an opportunity to learn

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

Prebanpaul. You're not helping.

 

[TackDriver13]

Re: Diagonal Stringing

I agree with Prebanpaul...

Sounds like you're heating up the barrel and it's starting to walk on you.

...I would LOVE to see some groups...