Rifle Scopes Dialing for Absolute Zero on new rifle scope, possible?

[Senor_Barney]

Went to reconfirm zero on my scope this morning... and before I loosen the turrets to dial back to zero I want to get the consensus from users here: How realistic it is to achieve an ABSOLUTE zero at 100 yards?

In other words, should I expect my point of aim at 100 yards to line up exactly with my point of impact?

The issue I've run into on more than one of my scopes (I've just dealt with it and never cared to ask) is that my point of impact will be +/- 0.1mil of my point of aim when shooting off a bench (See picture below from session this morning). Thats 1cm at 100 or 0.32 MOA but a lot more further out.

Rifle: AI/AT
Scope: SB PMII 5-25X
Cartridge: 6.5cm Berger 140gr
Conditions: 84F, 0-3mph headwind,

Purple dot: Point of Aim @ 100 yards.

Right Hole: Two shots into same hole with same POA. First shot was 0.1mil Right of POA. Took follow up shot to confirm.

Left Hole: Two shots into same hole with same POA. Made Left 0.1mil correction on windage turrets after first two shots (did not touch elevation at this point). Result was two more shots in same hole.

At the end of the day my shots are +/- 0.1 on windage with (effectively) no influence from wind. If I dial left I'll be 0.1 Left of aim and if not Ill be 0.1 Right of aim.

Assuming a) I'm following shooter fundamentals b) scope is tightened to spec c) nothing related to action screws etc....are my results a concern or not uncommon?

I can live with these results at close range and update in Strelok Pro.

 

[OREGUN]

I don’t think this is uncommon….and is the reason target shooters tend to use 1/8 MOA click turrets…so that a “click” is smaller than a bullet diameter. With .1 mil clicks, a “half-click” might be needed to truly center POI/POA for a 100 yard zero.

So, go with what’s closest or go with the direction that is “in to the prevailing wind” or go with the direction that favors your personal body mechanics…i.e. if you tend to push rounds left when shooting off of barricades, the go with the “right” zero.

For steel targets, both “zero” settings are likely close enough to be on, so PRS shooters use mils which dial faster even though they leave that small amount of accuracy on the table.

That’s my take on it anyway.

 

[ma smith]

There is sw tool that will adjust your ballistic calculator if you are like .04mils high or low depending on which click you pick. I think its called "true zero" calculation (?).Thats if your 100% sure your data is dead nuts.Next option is shoot more data, more positions, use math or an app, and make changes if variance is outside ±.04 from dead nuts.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Went to reconfirm zero on my scope this morning... and before I loosen the turrets to dial back to zero I want to get the consensus from users here: How realistic it is to achieve an ABSOLUTE zero at 100 yards?

I run an old school AI AW rifle in .308 with an S&B 5-25 x56 scope
Zeroed the scope 10 years ago for the lot of 155gr Lapua Scenar factory ammunition I had.

To this day, pull the rifle out of the bag, take it to the firing line, the first round will go exactly where aimed (as in within a 1cm square) at 100 yards and with slow fire all the other rounds will be just about right on top of it. The only variable is am I any good at holding the rifle that day.

For example:
I hadn't shot it for over a year, took it to the range, pulled it out of the bag, ran a quick wet swab and dry swap down the barrel to make sure there wasn't any debris, lined it up and then hit the lower section of a 1cm square I was aiming for the center of.

I would bet if you get a TacOps rifle and use their recommended factory ammunition for it & have everything else perfect, you'd probably be hitting the exact point of aim each time.


The above being said, your position behind the rifle can easily change the POI by 0.1 mil at 100 yards.
On my AW, the POI is often about 0.1 mil different at 100 yards if I'm setting the rifle on the bench with me sitting down, vs. me shooting prone depending on how I position my head.

So you might consider seeing what your position variables are.

Can you get the target all lined up perfectly, close your eyes, fully relax, take a bit of a rest, open your eyes and still be exactly lined up on target?
You might find being 100% sure of your position behind the rifle between setting the zero and confirming the zero fixes the issue if all else is good.

 

[_Windrider_]

Went to reconfirm zero on my scope this morning... and before I loosen the turrets to dial back to zero I want to get the consensus from users here: How realistic it is to achieve an ABSOLUTE zero at 100 yards?

In other words, should I expect my point of aim at 100 yards to line up exactly with my point of impact?

The issue I've run into on more than one of my scopes (I've just dealt with it and never cared to ask) is that my point of impact will be +/- 0.1mil of my point of aim when shooting off a bench (See picture below from session this morning). Thats 1cm at 100 or 0.32 MOA but a lot more further out.

Rifle: AI/AT
Scope: SB PMII 5-25X
Cartridge: 6.5cm Berger 140gr
Conditions: 84F, 0-3mph headwind,

Purple dot: Point of Aim @ 100 yards.

Right Hole: First shot was 0.1mil Right. Took follow up shot to confirm. POI is wo shots into same hole with same POA.

Left Hole: Made Left 0.1mil correction on windage turrets (did not touch elevation at this point). Result was two more shots in same hole.

At the end of the day my shots are +/- 0.1 on windage with (effectively) no influence from wind). If I dial left I'll be 0.1 Left of aim and if not Ill be 0.1 Right of aim.

Assuming a) im following shooter fundamentals b) scope is tightened to spec c) nothing related to action screws etc....are my results a concern?

View attachment 7707618

Considering .1 mils is .36” at 100 yds I’d say you are good to go. Unless you are off by some exact multiple of a tenth of a mil it will never be exact.

 

[Senor_Barney]

Considering .1 mils is .36” at 100 yds I’d say you are good to go. Unless you are off by some exact multiple of a tenth of a mil it will never be exact.

Helpful feedback from all...

Silver lining here is clearly my turrets are tracking properly because the second group was 0.1mil Left of the first group.

However, it still kind of bugs me that there is what seems like an element of "fluke" or "coincidence" as to whether the POI is exactly where the crosshair lines up at 100. I would like to be able to dial zero, aim, and impact exactly where I am aiming. Maybe too much to ask 300, 400, 500 yards etc....but at 100 it doesn't seem like I'm asking the world.

I was thinking maybe I need to mount the scope differently or dial differently (assuming I am doing all the above mentioned regarding body positioning). In the end, ~0.3 inches / ~1cm at 100 yards is nothing to balk at and will just be something I need to keep in mind when dialing at distance. Yes, at 500 yard that can easily become 2-3 inches, but still manageable error.

 

[_Windrider_]

Helpful feedback from all...

Silver lining here is clearly my turrets are tracking properly because the second group was 0.1mil Left of the first group.

However, it still kind of bugs me that there is what seems like an element of "fluke" or "coincidence" as to whether the POI is exactly where the crosshair lines up at 100. I would like to be able to dial zero, aim, and impact exactly where I am aiming. Maybe too much to ask 300, 400, 500 yards etc....but at 100 it doesn't seem like I'm asking the world.

I was thinking maybe I need to mount the scope differently or dial differently (assuming I am doing all the above mentioned regarding body positioning). In the end, ~0.3 inches / ~1cm at 100 yards is nothing to balk at and will just be something I need to keep in mind when dialing at distance. Yes, at 500 yard that can easily become 2-3 inches, but still manageable error.

The error can be mitigated. Use the offset feature in a ballistic calculator to refine it. It unless your scope is 1/8 MOA or .05 mil turrets it can only get so refined. Being within 1/3 MOA is pretty fuckin good

 

[Senor_Barney]

I use Strelok Pro...do you know if that has similar functionality as what you are mentioning? If so...where in the app do I note that my POI is 0.1mil left of POA?

I'm thinking this is it below...

 

[_Windrider_]

I use Strelok Pro...do you know if that has similar functionality as what you are mentioning? If so...where in the app do I note that my POI is 0.1mil left of POA?

I'm thinking this is it below...

View attachment 7707747

Yes zero offset

 

[_Windrider_]

I use Strelok Pro...do you know if that has similar functionality as what you are mentioning? If so...where in the app do I note that my POI is 0.1mil left of POA?

I'm thinking this is it below...

View attachment 7707747

Also, many people zero .1 left on purpose. Helps with SD. Pretty sure that’s a common practice for @lowlight

 

[W54/XM-388]

Something to think about is that if you can't get your scope to hit the exact zero spot for some reason, you might find that changing the order in which your scope base is tightened gives you just enough to hit the center. Small things like the exact order screws get tightened down in, or a little bit more or less torque can make just enough difference if you are trying to get your crosshairs 0.05 mils over.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Depends on what kind of turret you have. With certain ones (like on my AMG) you can adjust it so that you move the reticle in between 2 click points. You are actually moving the reticle to one of the click points.

 

[Senor_Barney]

Something to think about is that if you can't get your scope to hit the exact zero spot for some reason, you might find that changing the order in which your scope base is tightened gives you just enough to hit the center. Small things like the exact order screws get tightened down in, or a little bit more or less torque can make just enough difference if you are trying to get your crosshairs 0.05 mils over.

Wowsers...I'll need to investigate that. Because it didnt do this last week, but I took the scope off the rifle like an idiot over the weekend - hence the need to re-zero this morning.

Spuhr mount...I just go to the 5-6nm on the base and go in the 1-2-3-4 order it has on the four screws

 

[Andrew863]

When I first got my Razor gen 2 I didn't care for how the turrets adjust till I took it to the range and zeroed my rifle. You can make them perfect because there is no click when the turret is lose. I haven't had any other scopes like this but its nice once u get use to it.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

When I first got my Razor gen 2 I didn't care for how the turrets adjust till I took it to the range and zeroed my rifle. You can make them perfect because there is no click when the turret is lose. I haven't had any other scopes like this but its nice once u get us to it.

Exactly. That's how the AMG is too with the L-tec turrets. You can dial that wheel to any place you want and get your zero exactly on zero. It's a little bit of a pain but it's cool to be able to do that. You can sort of do it with kahles turrets too but not the same way as the Vortex. I love the vortex L-tec turrets myself.

 

[FourT6and2]

It's not uncommon. But that doesn't mean it's acceptable. Everybody has different expectations of precision and accuracy and what they want out of their rifle. And there are many factors that go into why you might not get an "absolute zero" at 100 yards, as you call it. Some of those things can come down to shooter error (improper technique), your ammo, weather conditions, your barrel, the target itself moving in the wind, etc.

That said, my personal expectations are that I can put 3 shots in the same hole at 100 yards, 5x per 100 rounds. And at least a few 5-round groups that are in the same hole. And this is with factory ammo, not hand loads. It's never come down to the scope.

Now let's say a 3-shot or 5-shot group is all in the same hole, but that hole is a tenth of a mil (or more) off from my actual POA, then that means it's the scope. Looking at your photo in the OP, your two shots are what I would consider to be not grouped well enough to know if it's the scope or something else. Not trying to be harsh. But unless you can get at least three shots touching, I wouldn't call that good enough for a true zero (for my standards).

Let's say you have what YOU consider an acceptable group and zero at 100 yards. But it's 0.1 MIL from your actual POA. At 1,000 yards, that's only 3.6 inches. That's not going to break the bank, so to speak. Can you accurately and precisely hit a 3.6" target at 1,000 yards? Probably not. At 600 yards, your zero will only be off 2.16" from your POA. But... that's actually something. At Highpower matches, that actually makes a difference, for example. I've seen people group that tight at 600 yards and 2" can matter in those situations with whether you hit the three-inch x-ring or something else. It really comes down to what you are ok with.

Ideally, I'd want POA and POI at 100 yards to be dead-nuts the same. And if that happens between two 0.1 MIL increments on your scope, then unfortunately there's not a lot you can do about it other than what someone has suggested, which is to re-mount your scope again a few times until you get lucky. Sometimes moving your scope forward/backward in the rings/mounts a bit and then re-torquing, can help.

 

[Senor_Barney]

Not trying to be harsh. But unless you can get at least three shots touching, I wouldn't call that good enough for a true zero (for my standards).

I learned a lot from your post. And it looks like I'll be going back to the range to remount the scope and try again.

To be clear...the hole on the right in my picture is actually 2 Shots in the same hole (initial shot then follow up for confirmation). The hole on the left is a subsequent two shots in the same hole. So four shots into two separate holes 0.1 mil apart.

I am having precision (same hole) but not accuracy? Or is it the other way around....?

 

[ormandj]

It's not uncommon. But that doesn't mean it's acceptable. Everybody has different expectations of precision and accuracy and what they want out of their rifle. And there are many factors that go into why you might not get an "absolute zero" at 100 yards, as you call it. Some of those things can come down to shooter error (improper technique), your ammo, weather conditions, your barrel, the target itself moving in the wind, etc.

That said, my personal expectations are that I can put 3 shots in the same hole at 100 yards, 5x per 100 rounds. And at least a few 5-round groups that are in the same hole. And this is with factory ammo, not hand loads. It's never come down to the scope.

Now let's say a 3-shot or 5-shot group is all in the same hole, but that hole is a tenth of a mil (or more) off from my actual POA, then that means it's the scope. Looking at your photo in the OP, your two shots are what I would consider to be not grouped well enough to know if it's the scope or something else. Not trying to be harsh. But unless you can get at least three shots touching, I wouldn't call that good enough for a true zero (for my standards).

Let's say you have what YOU consider an acceptable group and zero at 100 yards. But it's 0.1 MIL from your actual POA. At 1,000 yards, that's only 3.6 inches. That's not going to break the bank, so to speak. Can you accurately and precisely hit a 3.6" target at 1,000 yards? Probably not. At 600 yards, your zero will only be off 2.16" from your POA. But... that's actually something. At Highpower matches, that actually makes a difference, for example. I've seen people group that tight at 600 yards and 2" can matter in those situations with whether you hit the three-inch x-ring or something else. It really comes down to what you are ok with.

Ideally, I'd want POA and POI at 100 yards to be dead-nuts the same. And if that happens between two 0.1 MIL increments on your scope, then unfortunately there's not a lot you can do about it other than what someone has suggested, which is to re-mount your scope again a few times until you get lucky. Sometimes moving your scope forward/backward in the rings/mounts a bit and then re-torquing, can help.

What factory ammunition do you shoot that you expect that? That seems like a very unrealistic expectation for factory ammunition for multiple three shot groups, and repeatedly doing it for five shot groups takes a great rifle and bench setup even for handloads. I may be misreading what you wrote. I just don’t want OP chasing unattainable goals.

OP: Very common. If you can adjust turrets freely like the above mentioned vortex you can tune it out. Same with remounting the scope base or rings, sometimes that will work, but with a 1/10mil scope you normally just deal with it and build it into your ballistics calculations. Most of them (the ones you should be using) support zeros that aren’t dead on. They’ll factor it into the longer distance calculations where it actually starts to matter, and keep you as close as they can.

 

[Burdy]

Leave it .1 left and you don't have to pull your hair out as much on spin drift.

 

[Burdy]

What factory ammunition do you shoot that you expect that? That seems like a very unrealistic expectation for factory ammunition for multiple three shot groups, and repeatedly doing it for five shot groups takes a great rifle and bench setup even for handloads. I may be misreading what you wrote. I just don’t want OP chasing unattainable goals.

OP: Very common. If you can adjust turrets freely like the above mentioned vortex you can tune it out. Same with remounting the scope base or rings, sometimes that will work, but with a 1/10mil scope you normally just deal with it and build it into your ballistics calculations. Most of them (the ones you should be using) support zeros that aren’t dead on. They’ll factor it into the longer distance calculations where it actually starts to matter, and keep you as close as they can.

We get a lot of rifles through our hands for LE demonstrations and I can say that it is very commonplace to see consistent .1xx" groups in factory 6.5 CM ammo across multiple rifles (same brand, but not custom) and believe it or not, several different factory loads of different brands.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

We get a lot of rifles through our hands for LE demonstrations and I can say that it is very commonplace to see consistent .1xx" groups in factory 6.5 CM ammo across multiple rifles (same brand, but not custom) and believe it or not, several different factory loads of different brands.

I was going to ask the same thing when I read what you wrote, it's very hard to believe. It takes a very good hand load to put 5 in one hole. I've never seen any factory ammo do that. I'd sure like to know what ammo this is so I can quit loading

 

[Burdy]

I was going to ask the same thing when I read what you wrote, it's very hard to believe. It takes a very good hand load to put 5 in one hole. I've never seen any factory ammo do that. I'd sure like to know what ammo this is so I can quit loadin

Well to be fair he said 5 different 3-shot groups in one hole out of 100 rds. Either way, I don't think the ammo we are shooting matters in a direct sense. More that we searched and and found a few factory loads that shoots excellent out of these particular rifles. I wouldnt expect the rifle to shoot that well with all ammo or the ammo shoot that well with all rifles. I should also add that my shooting personally doesn't get much better than 1/4", but we have one guy who can consistently produce these 1.xx" groups on multiple rifles that come in.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Well to be fair he said 5 different 3-shot groups in one hole out of 100 rds. Either way, I don't think the ammo we are shooting matters in a direct sense. More that we searched and and found a few factory loads that shoots excellent out of these particular rifles. I wouldnt expect the rifle to shoot that well with all ammo or the ammo shoot that well with all rifles. I should also add that my shooting personally doesn't get much better than 1/4", but we have one guy who can consistently produce these 1.xx" groups on multiple rifles that come in.

I've seen some Berger ammo do very well, an shot some very well . (.25 moa or so), maybe I have a different meaning of "one hole" .

"at least a few 5-round groups that are in the same hole. ". Putting 5 in the same hole is very difficult to do with good hand loads, and I've never seen that with factory ammo, even one that a particular rifle likes. Maybe it's possible, but hard to believe it's so common it's an "expectation"???

Maybe I'm picking words apart too much here, I try not to do that and the over all point being made was fine. Not trying to be a dick and so im happy to just let it go.

 

[ormandj]

Well to be fair he said 5 different 3-shot groups in one hole out of 100 rds. Either way, I don't think the ammo we are shooting matters in a direct sense. More that we searched and and found a few factory loads that shoots excellent out of these particular rifles. I wouldnt expect the rifle to shoot that well with all ammo or the ammo shoot that well with all rifles. I should also add that my shooting personally doesn't get much better than 1/4", but we have one guy who can consistently produce these 1.xx" groups on multiple rifles that come in.

I still find it hard to believe, five three-shot groups or otherwise, with factory ammunition. Regardless, as long as the OP doesn’t expect that level of performance from factory ammunition, it doesn’t really matter if it’s true or not.

A good factory ammunition matched to a rifle capable of it shoots 1/2 MOA consistently, and will hit 1/4 with luck (I’ve seen it once or twice) but I have never seen anything like you’re describing with any consistency. That’s in rifles with Bartlein barrels and custom actions in chassis or manners stocks with great shooters that can shoot 1/4-1/3 MOA with great handloads. Consistent single hole repeatability is benchrest free-recoil territory with purpose built rifles and highly optimized loads.

I’m with @BuildingConceptsllc , let me know what factory loads and what rifles these are, I’d save a ton of time loading and a mess of money with full custom rifles.

 

[Burdy]

I've seen some Berger ammo do very well, an shot some very well . (.25 moa or so), maybe I have a different meaning of "one hole" .

"at least a few 5-round groups that are in the same hole. ". Putting 5 in the same hole is very difficult to do with good hand loads, and I've never seen that with factory ammo, even one that a particular rifle likes. Maybe it's possible, but hard to believe it's so common it's an "expectation"???

Maybe I'm picking words apart too much here, I try not to do that and the over all point being made was fine. Not trying to be a dick and so im happy to just let it go.

No offense taken at all. I wouldn't say its an "expectation" but its just not a surprise anymore when we see these groups. I would agree that 5 shots is significantly more difficult, both from the standpoint of the ammo and mentally after you have already laid in the first 3.

 

[theLBC]

take your scope off, put it back on. maybe you'll get lucky with a 0.05mil shift.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I was going to ask the same thing when I read what you wrote, it's very hard to believe. It takes a very good hand load to put 5 in one hole. I've never seen any factory ammo do that. I'd sure like to know what ammo this is so I can quit loading

Have you seen the test groups TacOps sends with their rifles using factory ammo? Often in the 0.1 MOA range

Also try the Lapua Match ammunition from a good lot, in a barrel that likes it and you'd be surprised how tiny of a group you can get.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Have you seen the test groups TacOps sends with their rifles using factory ammo? Often in the 0.1 MOA range

Also try the Lapua Match ammunition from a good lot, in a barrel that likes it and you'd be surprised how tiny of a group you can get.

I have seen some really impressive things from those rifles, but I don't recall how many rounds he shoots when he does it or what the parameters are there. I will definitely try out some lapua match ammo though, but what do you mean by "a good lot" ? Just one that my rifle likes a bunch?

 

[ormandj]

Cherry picked group if it’s factory ammo. There’s no factory ammunition I’ve ever run across consistent enough to do that repeatedly. I’ve never shot a tacops rifle but this forum has a few threads full of praise, so I’ll just go with the flow and not argue the rifle’s capability, but there is no way anyone is printing .1 five shot groups with factory ammunition with any consistency even if the rifle is a .1 or better BR rifle.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I have seen some really impressive things from those rifles, but I don't recall how many rounds he shoots when he does it or what the parameters are there. I will definitely try out some lapua match ammo though, but what do you mean by "a good lot" ? Just one that my rifle likes a bunch?

There is a reason people pay the money to places like Lapua to send their rifle in and have the factory test fire several lots of ammo to find the one that fits their barrel best and then they buy a couple cases of it and shoot that. It is very common to have small variances lot to lot, even from the best brands (much like you could get with your powder) and sometimes the specific variance makes it shoot really well in your rifle & not another, or the opposite, depending on the exact details of your barrel and rifle.

You can:
Tune the rifle to the specific factory ammo (the secret sauce TacOps does, they build the rifle around a single specific factory round)
Tune the ammunition to the rifle (what most hand loaders are doing as well as some custom ammo places)

Then for those who shoot factory ammo and want to go the next level,
Find the specific, exact high quality factory ammo that your rifle really likes, then find a lot number where the exact tiny differences in lots line up perfectly with what your barrel wants (what the Lapua testing center does for serious competitors).

 

[Steel head]

Considering .1 mils is .36” at 100 yds I’d say you are good to go. Unless you are off by some exact multiple of a tenth of a mil it will never be exact.

Doesn’t the vortex razor allow you better resolution on your zero?

 

[_Windrider_]

Doesn’t the vortex razor allow you better resolution on your zero?

No clue. Never owned a vortex. Someone did mention you can slip the turrets on the AMG I think.

 

[Steel head]

No clue. Never owned a vortex. Someone did mention you can slip the turrets on the AMG I think.

Yea
Same system as the razor.

 

[FourT6and2]

Cherry picked group if it’s factory ammo. There’s no factory ammunition I’ve ever run across consistent enough to do that repeatedly. I’ve never shot a tacops rifle but this forum has a few threads full of praise, so I’ll just go with the flow and not argue the rifle’s capability, but there is no way anyone is printing .1 five shot groups with factory ammunition with any consistency even if the rifle is a .1 or better BR rifle.

I don't want to derail this thread, but please read what I wrote. I'm not interested in bickering via a straw-man argument. I said five 3-shot groups out of 100 rounds and a few 5-shot groups... out of 100. Those are my personal standards for my rifle.

I'm shooting factory Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor ELD-M.


EDIT: Pics removed because Mr. Narcissist's ego needs to police the forum.

 

[FourT6and2]

What factory ammunition do you shoot that you expect that? That seems like a very unrealistic expectation for factory ammunition for multiple three shot groups, and repeatedly doing it for five shot groups takes a great rifle and bench setup even for handloads. I may be misreading what you wrote. I just don’t want OP chasing unattainable goals.

OP: Very common. If you can adjust turrets freely like the above mentioned vortex you can tune it out. Same with remounting the scope base or rings, sometimes that will work, but with a 1/10mil scope you normally just deal with it and build it into your ballistics calculations. Most of them (the ones you should be using) support zeros that aren’t dead on. They’ll factor it into the longer distance calculations where it actually starts to matter, and keep you as close as they can.

Read my post above. And I'm not telling OP he should expect those kinds of results. I thought I was pretty clear in my first post, but oh well. My bad!

 

[FourT6and2]

We get a lot of rifles through our hands for LE demonstrations and I can say that it is very commonplace to see consistent .1xx" groups in factory 6.5 CM ammo across multiple rifles (same brand, but not custom) and believe it or not, several different factory loads of different brands.

Yep. Same.

 

[FourT6and2]

Maybe I'm picking words apart too much here, I try not to do that and the over all point being made was fine. Not trying to be a dick and so im happy to just let it go.

Yeah, I think you're reading into it a bit more than what's warranted lol. I'm happy to hit the range with you or anybody else that wants to. I'm not claiming I can shoot 5-round groups in one hole every time lol. Just that my expectations for my rig and my abilities are a few of those out of 100 rounds. 3-shot groups are the norm. That's for when I zero my rifle. The rest of my time is spent shooting at distance on the 1,000-yard range or out on BLM.

 

[Burdy]

I don't want to derail this thread, but please read what I wrote. I'm not interested in bickering via a straw-man argument. I said five 3-shot groups out of 100 rounds and a few 5-shot groups... OUT OF 100 ROUNDS. Those are my personal standards for my rifle. That is my MINIMUM requirement. In practice, for three-shot groups, I see those results much more often. It's really boring at this point. I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. Meet me at the range. And the rig performs well out to 1,000 yards. It's incredibly predictable and reliable.

I'm shooting a custom rig chambered by Jon Beanland (the black one). Factory Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor ELD-m, 140gr. I've never hand loaded in my life.

Groups on this barrel have opened up slightly (due for a re-barrel). But yeah, before I hit 2,800 rounds or so groups in the teens were commonplace. Here's a 0.12 MOA group. If anybody is in the Sacramento, CA area, I'm happy to prove it. Meet me at Sac Valley any time.

I'm not gonna post a million group photos but I'm happy to hit the range with you.

These are from before I zeroed for the first time with a new barrel.

Here's 1,000-yard target (head shots were at 200).

Some Highpower scorecards at 600, 800, 900, and 1,000 yards.

Here's 600 yards. If you've shot highpower or on any range where you have target pullers, you know why the stickers are there. But the x-ring is three inches in diameter. That's ten shots. 600 yards. Factory ammo. Three-inch bullseye.

FWIW, 140 ELD-M is one of the loads we get the .1xx groups from as well.

 

[308pirate]

However, it still kind of bugs me that there is what seems like an element of "fluke" or "coincidence" as to whether the POI is exactly where the crosshair lines up at 100. I would like to be able to dial zero, aim, and impact exactly where I am aiming.

That's impossible. Every system has errors, however small. Add them up and you will never have exact accuracy.

The biggest source of error is you.

You're being way unrealistic and need to dial it down.

 

[OREGUN]

Holy Christ this thread is a train wreck in slow motion.


Dude stacked two right, clicked over, and missed left by 1/2 a click value…and asked about making his impact be in the middle.

Everything else is some kind of weird dick measuring contest involving factory ammo…?

Great, your rifle shoots some small groups at 100.
Awesome, you are content to shoot some mediocre F-class scores.
Sweet you can hit an IPSC at 1000.
Oooooo….you‘re LE

NOBODY CARES AND ITS NOT GERMANE TO THE ORIGINAL POST

 

[Senor_Barney]

Holy Christ this thread is a train wreck in slow motion.


Dude stacked two right, clicked over, and missed left by 1/2 a click value…and asked about making his impact be in the middle.

Everything else is some kind of weird dick measuring contest involving factory ammo…?

Great, your rifle shoots some small groups at 100.
Awesome, you are content to shoot some mediocre F-class scores.
Sweet you can hit an IPSC at 1000.
Oooooo….you‘re LE

NOBODY CARES AND ITS NOT GERMANE TO THE ORIGINAL POST

I just happened to finally have time to document and post about something I have observed (on my rifles and others) a few times in the past. There has been some helpful advice here that I am going to take with me back to the range, also some entertainment value.

I wasn't aware of the functionality in Strelok Pro to input a zero offset. I will try that. And, I will also look at remounting the scope.

It isn't the end of the world for my shooting (maybe I should care more). Yes, 0.1mil off at 100m is nothing, but at 800m it is ~3inches (?). So long as I am made aware now of the dynamic I can compensate with my dials and holds.

At the end of the day, 2 shots one hole, then 2 shots one hole 0.1 click away shows my turrets track (at least at 100), so that's the silver lining here.

 

[Senor_Barney]

Read my post above. And I'm not telling OP he should expect those kinds of results. I thought I was pretty clear in my first post, but oh well. My bad!

Small world, I shoot at Sac Valley!
Will be there at the next monthly Long Range practice Friday 10/1

The fellow shooters there are super willing to lend advice and I'm super willing to soak it like a sponge. So much to still learn here, but enjoying every step of the process.

 

[FourT6and2]

Holy Christ this thread is a train wreck in slow motion.


Dude stacked two right, clicked over, and missed left by 1/2 a click value…and asked about making his impact be in the middle.

Everything else is some kind of weird dick measuring contest involving factory ammo…?

Great, your rifle shoots some small groups at 100.
Awesome, you are content to shoot some mediocre F-class scores.
Sweet you can hit an IPSC at 1000.
Oooooo….you‘re LE

NOBODY CARES AND ITS NOT GERMANE TO THE ORIGINAL POST

Only train wreck post in here is yours from what I can tell. I got called out, so I provided proof. I've never seen someone fly off the handle like you just did. Kinda weird...

 

[FourT6and2]

Small world, I shoot at Sac Valley!
Will be there at the next monthly Long Range practice Friday 10/1

The fellow shooters there are super willing to lend advice and I'm super willing to soak it like a sponge. So much to still learn here, but enjoying every step of the process.

Sweet. PM me and we'll figure out the details. I shoot with the NCPPRC too.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Only train wreck post in here is yours from what I can tell. I got called out, so I provided proof. I've never seen someone fly off the handle like you just did. Kinda weird...

Seems to me that e everything was very kosher and just a discussion right ? That's what we do here isn't?

 

[FourT6and2]

Seems to me that e everything was very kosher and just a discussion right ? That's what we do here isn't?

Yep. I think that guy's been social distancing his entire life...

 

[Burdy]

Seems to me that e everything was very kosher and just a discussion right ? That's what we do here isn't?

Yeah so weird.... while we did get sidetracked I thought this conversation was extremely cordial. Plus he couldn't even get his facts right, no one said they were LE (I am not and never have been) and if we were measuring, I guess I was measuring someone else's.

 

[FourT6and2]

In any event... the NCPPRC guys will help you out with whatever you need. They're good folks.