Digital scale/autotrickler set up recommendations

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edd1e22

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#1
I've been reading the reviews here about autotrickler combos and the pricing ranges from ~$200(Frankfort arsenal/rcbs chargemaster lite) all the way to $1350 for the fx120/area419 setup.

Besides the speed at which it can dispense charges, are there any other considerations to factor in when making a decision on what scale to purchase?
 
#2
419 setup is much more accurate. To the .00 instead of .0

It’s not really a 419 setup though, it’s a guy in Canada making a auto feed system to work with a lab grade pharmaceutical scale. All the original parts that aren’t so good 419 has made much better and offer individually or as kit.

419 setup is awesome and if u got the dime it’s best on market!!!
 
#3
Like stated, the Fx-120/419 stuff is accurate down to .02 grs, and throws and trickles a charge in less than 15 secs. The price is high, but it buys both speed and accuracy. A lot of other solutions get you one or the other, at a lower cost.
 
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#4
Thanks for the feedback. While I value accuracy, I'm willing to sacrifice the speed. Do you guys have a recommendation for a lower cost but accurate scale without going the beam route?
 
#6
I know a lot of shooters that use something like an fx120 and just scoop powder and then use something like a dandy trickler. Seems to be a little faster than straight manual but not at the price of 419 stuff. Keep in mind if you are going to spend the $500 on the scale you can buy the whole kit for 850 ( not 419 kit) and the kit can be purchased at a later time-the trickler an powder throw.
 
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#8
edd1e22 said:
Thanks for the info. Where exactly do I buy this "kit" and what comes with it? I was under the false impression that only area419 made a kit for the fx120.
Click to expand...
Buy here for a scale auto throw combo inside the US. They also have a canadian site if you are across the border.
https://ce-products.myshopify.com/products/a-d-fx-120i-scale-autotrickler-v2-autothrow-combo

The auto trickler is its own thing and can be purchased from the inventor without the scale. https://www.autotrickler.com/auto-trickler.html

419 just came along and offered metal to replace the 3d printed parts etc. Its still "adams auto throw" system.
 
#10
Not IMO but then again I havent used the 419. I dont have an issue with my normal set up.
Almost everyone else will tell you its worth it though so take from that what you will.
 
#11
edd1e22 said:
Spife, thanks for the info. Is there any tangible benefits to having metal parts/area 419 or is it just the "cool factor" and durability?
Click to expand...

Although it is $$$ for what it is, I will say that the powder cup is extremely well built and super nice to use.

I got the balance and cup in Jan and have had the trickler on order since mid Feb. Once it's all together it will be this setup:

ce-products.myshopify.com

A&D FX-120i + Autotrickler + AREA 419 Base & Powder Cup

Cambridge Environmental Products Inc A&D’s FX-120I Reloading scale and Autotrickler.com V2 Autotrickler for reloaders and long range shooters
ce-products.myshopify.com

I just could not justify the extra $$ for the autothrow and 419 parts, when I can essentially accomplish the same thing with a $10 set of Lee powder scoops.
 
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#12
Ran one of the new Intellidroppers up against an A&D and it was about what you’d expect. “Close enough,” as in less than .1 off each throw. Speed was comparable as well.

Main consideration is that it was repeatable. Loaded up the same load in my 6mm and it was the same velocity/spread as the A&D was over 5 shots. If I didn’t already have the FX-120 I would have no reservations about dropping ~$200 on one of those FAs.
 
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#14
The guys shooting low single digits velocity ES and SD tend to measure their charges to the 0.02 grain level that the A&D scale does.

The cheaper solutions use a different type of sensor in the scale which is suceptible to drift.

An auto-trickler is probably one of the best places to spend money in reloading if you want to improve consistency shot to shot.
 
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#15
I just got an A&D FX-120i auto-trickle and auto-thrower combo. My old system was just using my Hornady powder thrower and weighing each charge on a Gempro 250. Both scales resolve down to 0.02gn but the Gempro tends to drift more. It's also much less expensive and when I compared the 2 scales numerous times, the Gempro was on average off 0.02gn (1 kernel of Varget) compared to the A&D so it's definitely an accurate, less expensive option.
 
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#16
The extra money for a scale that doesn't drift and the auto-trickler pays off when you can stretch the interval between spot checks and the results always come back dead nuts on.

The fact that it can meter to the grain pretty much as fast as a person can seat bullets means that it truly is a buy once cry once because faster and more precise wouldn't improve or speed up your reloading.
 
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#17
flyer said:
The guys shooting low single digits velocity ES and SD tend to measure their charges to the 0.02 grain level that the A&D scale does.

The cheaper solutions use a different type of sensor in the scale which is suceptible to drift.

An auto-trickler is probably one of the best places to spend money in reloading if you want to improve consistency shot to shot.
Click to expand...

On the contrary, a good velocity node should not see any difference in velocity or spread from less than .1grs.

Accurate, repeatable charges are certainly of the utmost importance when you’re looking for the most consistent results possible. However .02grs or even .05-06-07grs. will not/should not take a single digit spread and make it ‘not single digits’ assuming all else (brass, neck tension, seating depth, etc.) stays the same.
 
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#18
I've been eyeballing the auto trickle system for a while now. For me the speed and accuracy of each charge is huge.
I was reloading a batch yesterday using two chargemaster lites after throwing 100 charges I noticed that one of the chargemasters was acting funny. When I went to double check my loads all of the throws from that one chargemaster was off, by a lot. After trying several times to re-cal that unit, it will not weigh accurately. Very frustrating!!!!:ROFLMAO:
 
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#19
just browsing said:
On the contrary, a good velocity node should not see any difference in velocity or spread from less than .1grs.

Accurate, repeatable charges are certainly of the utmost importance when you’re looking for the most consistent results possible. However .02grs or even .05-06-07grs. will not/should not take a single digit spread and make it ‘not single digits’ assuming all else (brass, neck tension, seating depth, etc.) stays the same.
Click to expand...
Well yes but the cheaper dispensers read to 0.1 grain and if they drift 0.1, now you might have some off by 0.2 and suddenly your ES and SD are in the 20s or 30s instead of less than 10.

Like everything in shooting: aim small, miss small.

This is one area where you can buy precision. Most everything else relies on technique as much as the quality of the reloading gear.
 
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#20
Ruskin said:
I've been eyeballing the auto trickle system for a while now. For me the speed and accuracy of each charge is huge.
I was reloading a batch yesterday using two chargemaster lites after throwing 100 charges I noticed that one of the chargemasters was acting funny. When I went to double check my loads all of the throws from that one chargemaster was off, by a lot. After trying several times to re-cal that unit, it will not weigh accurately. Very frustrating!!!!:ROFLMAO:
Click to expand...
I had a similar situation, except I was using a traditional charge master. I was loading stuff up for a ladder test and after I had already done 15 or so different loads I noticed something was off with the scale. I had to dump them all and start over, nothing can explain how frustrating that is even though it didn’t take all that long still extremely frustrating. Fix 120 auto dump an trickler here I come!
 
#21
edd1e22 said:
Spife, thanks for the info. Is there any tangible benefits to having metal parts/area 419 or is it just the "cool factor" and durability?
Click to expand...
I've had the autotrickler/thrower FX-120i for over a year. Recently I bought the Area 419 full upgrade. The out the box setup for the scale and auto trickler/throw works fine. The 419 upgrade improves functionality enough for me it was worth the money. The upgraded trickler base is easy to level with screw in adjustable feet. Its extra weight stops the trickler from "walking" around when the stepper motor is running at its lowest speed. If you don't keep an eye on it, it'll move enough away from the powder pan and result in spilled powder. The standard trickler base is 3D printed plastic and you level it by placing slips of paper under one side or another.

The 419 cover is very rigid and greatly reduces vibration of the auto dumper. Being transparent, you no longer have to bend over to watch the powder being trickled/dumped. The 419 billet auto dumper housing is very sturdy and eliminates the straw - replacing it with a funnel that when used with the 419 cup leaves little room for powder bounce.

The 419 DramWorx pyrex hopper holds twice as much powder and when used with the 419 auto throw housing is also much more rigid than the standard 3D printed version running the standard Lee powder hopper.

The 419 cup and self centering tray are perhaps the least significant improvements over the stock plastic in terms of functionality, but they are beautifully made and the extra height of the cup has virtually eliminated powder bouncing out from a powder dump and the self centering tray places the cup in the same place every time without any effort.

It's not cheap, but no question the upgrades improve the performance in terms of far fewer spills, and "re-weighs" due to something getting bumped and being able to easily see if a grain of powder has bounced onto the scale tray. In the standard configuration, I was always tweaking the straw, cup or trickler. Now I just power up and start dispensing powder.
 
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#22
I reload mostly for F-TR. When I go to big national matches I load 300+ to 500 or more rounds depending on whether or not a take a different load for my backup rifle and what team evolutions I'll be shooting outside of competition. There are two pieces of reloading kit that I can't imagine how I would live with out, and the auto-trickler is one of them.

Yes, it's a little faster than throwing on a Chargemaster and trickling up on a good scale, but it makes throwing powder charges automatic, you can drink coffee while you fill cases, and the coffee doesn't get cold (or the beer get warm) .

The idea of loading without it is just not acceptable.

As for the trickler walking, I put my scale and my trickler on one of the small green felt bench top mats from Brownells and it never moves.
 
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#23
Hey Praeger - thanks for the great info on the full 419 upgrade! I had a buddy tell me that he was having issues with powder splashing all over from the billet housing straw replacement. He has had his unit for a couple of years now, so the 419 upgrade may have evolved. Your review makes a lot of sense in the high sidewalls of the 419 cup and the extra height provided by the centering tray. Apparently 419 made some kind of "wedge" that was supposed to slow down the rate of powder drop from the billet funnel, but I have heard mixed reviews on that fix. Your info is current as of 4/9 so the powder spill issues may have been ironed out. Thoughts? Thanks again!!
 
#24
The 419 setup is on my wish list.

Right now I'm using the Chargemaster 1500 and Dandy trickler and adjusted the throw settings on the chargemaster so it's faster. I set the charge weight .2 less then I want, and then trickle up. So far I'm liking it.

Adjusting the settings on the chargemaster makes it worthwhile. It would just take too long without doing that. It still takes an average of 20-30 seconds for each throw including the trickle, but the accurate throws I'm now getting is worth the extra few seconds.
 
#26
mthomas001 said:
Hey Praeger - thanks for the great info on the full 419 upgrade! I had a buddy tell me that he was having issues with powder splashing all over from the billet housing straw replacement. He has had his unit for a couple of years now, so the 419 upgrade may have evolved. Your review makes a lot of sense in the high sidewalls of the 419 cup and the extra height provided by the centering tray. Apparently 419 made some kind of "wedge" that was supposed to slow down the rate of powder drop from the billet funnel, but I have heard mixed reviews on that fix. Your info is current as of 4/9 so the powder spill issues may have been ironed out. Thoughts? Thanks again!!
Click to expand...

I've had my 419 upgrade kit since around Christmas IIRC, and no powder issues here (aside form some random kernel that flies off the trickler and lands on the plate, which is clearly evident the next time the cup goes to zero for the next charge).
 
#28
Correct. I have the full upgrade kit (pricey, but worth it in my opinion). Like many, the price tag of the auto tricker/powder drop kit was a bit intimidating, so I went with the baseline kit to start. After about a month, I could see where the other kit's parts paid dividends in rigidity and ease of use, and so ordered that. No regrets whatsoever.
 
#29
I think it also depends on the size of the cartridge being loaded. For an intermediate to large capacity cartridge (40+ grains) you have larger accuracy nodes for powder charge, so you can get away with more drift in your setup. So if you never run under a .243/ 6 creedmoor cartridge, you can run a chargemaster and get an sd of 10. But the fx is the bees knees by all accounts.
 
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#30
I am running the FX120i with a Frankford Arsenal powder drop and vibratory trickler. It is just as fast as the whole auto throw/trickler set up and just as accurate but was about a third of the total cost. I load for multiple calibers too. Easy to adjust powder drop to get it close then trickle.
 
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#31
Gwain said:
I am running the FX120i with a Frankford Arsenal powder drop and vibratory trickler. It is just as fast as the whole auto throw/trickler set up and just as accurate but was about a third of the total cost. I load for multiple calibers too. Easy to adjust powder drop to get it close then trickle.
Click to expand...

Could you show us a picture of your setup please?
 
#32
IMG_20190427_161424945.jpg
 
#33
I'm not seeing how that's 1/3 the cost since the scale is more than half the cost of an auto-trickler setup.

You might save a couple hundred but you lose the completely automatic dispensing part.
 
#38
edd1e22 said:
I've been reading the reviews here about autotrickler combos and the pricing ranges from ~$200(Frankfort arsenal/rcbs chargemaster lite) all the way to $1350 for the fx120/area419 setup.

Besides the speed at which it can dispense charges, are there any other considerations to factor in when making a decision on what scale to purchase?
Click to expand...

still not what the orig post was asking....but what ever. My point is you can get same results for fraction of the cost of the area 419 full kit as mentioned in orig post, which is true.
 
#39
Just got the Area 419 Autotrickler upgrade for $200 (center base, cup, and trickler base). This was worth the cost of the upgrade. The trickler is virtually silent now due to the increased mass of the base and the scale does not walk at all now with the centering base/cup. Before if you moved the cup even slightly the scale would change weights. That concern is gone now.
 
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#40
surprise said:
I had a similar situation, except I was using a traditional charge master. I was loading stuff up for a ladder test and after I had already done 15 or so different loads I noticed something was off with the scale. I had to dump them all and start over, nothing can explain how frustrating that is even though it didn’t take all that long still extremely frustrating. Fix 120 auto dump an trickler here I come!
Click to expand...
I’m with you brother, I’m going all in with the full 419 set up
 
#43
I recently got the Auto Trickler, A and D scale and Auto Throw. I have also added most of the Area 419 bases and has been said above I think they are worth it. Probably the most worthwhile is the adjustable base for the trickle. As the Adam MacDonald (inventor) says the biggest key to getting accurate charges is adjusting the angle of the trickler barrel and that can easily be done with the 419 base.
One weakness of the Autotrickler/ analytical scale system is that you can't set an automatic/repeatable charge weight as you can with something like a Chargemaster. If you're charging 100 cases with uniform powder weights thats not a problem. But if your doing ladder tests where every 10th charge is different, its a pain. In that case I still use the Omega with the A and D scale (it's easier for me to add kernel by kernel with the Omega).
On my last outing with Autotrickler loaded rounds I had a 5" vertical spread at 600 yards for 20 rounds and SDs between 5 and 8. I'm not where I want to be yet but think I've got the powder uniformity thing covered.
 
#44
You can do ladders with an auto-trickler.

I bought a bunch of small centrifuge tubes to use as reference weights for good charges.

What I can do is load ladder tubes at 10.00 grain, 10.30 grain, 10.60 grain, etc.

Then when I want to do a ladder starting at X grains, I can load another tube at X-10.00 grains and then change my charge by using the X-10.00 and one of the ladder tubes to get to X grains and up the ladder.

That should be pretty quick and easy to verify directly off the scale.
 
#46
WinJim1863 said:
One weakness of the Autotrickler/ analytical scale system is that you can't set an automatic/repeatable charge weight as you can with something like a Chargemaster. If you're charging 100 cases with uniform powder weights thats not a problem. But if your doing ladder tests where every 10th charge is different, its a pain. In that case I still use the Omega with the A and D scale (it's easier for me to add kernel by kernel with the Omega).
Click to expand...

I dont have a problem. Do the same thing ass when I initially set it. Spin the throw bar to where it is throws 2-3 grains low and then spin the trickler base to dispense up to where you want it. Takes 3 seconds to change to the next higher ladder load.
 
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#47
So turns out waiting to by the AutoTrickler worked in my favor with the hole v3 thing coming out when it did. The other cool thing that happened was a buddy of mine owns a scale company and had a fx-200i he gave me. SCORE! Now just waiting for the v3 to show up.
 
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#49
How is everyone liking the V3? I am about to pull the trigger on the combo but now they have a V4 coming out. So I might just buy the scale and wait for the v4. This will be my first year loading and I am trying to be one and done in terms of scales and throwers. If anyone has any input i am all ears. Obviously I will have to throw manually until I get the auto trickler. I really just want to get my order in so I can load but the v4 seems pretty promising.
 
#50
I would say get on the waitlist for a V4. My set up is a V one with some V2 and V3 modifications. The whole set up as a V4 looks really awesome and I know if Adam puts it out there it’s going to work and it’s gonna work well.

The whole V3 set up looks awesome compared to my Kabul together system but my system works and I spent enough money on the stuff without buying a loading system to replace one that works.

That said I’m probably going to get in line for a V4
 
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