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Digital Scale help?
- Thread starter bjohnson87
- Start date
Re: Digital Scale help?
Most reloading quality scales use the same chip. I have had really good luck with my older Dillon D-Terminator
Most reloading quality scales use the same chip. I have had really good luck with my older Dillon D-Terminator
Re: Digital Scale help?
Ok cool thank u i will give it a try more accurate and conveniate rather than those balancing scales
Ok cool thank u i will give it a try more accurate and conveniate rather than those balancing scales
Re: Digital Scale help?
I have been from beam to electronic back to beam, or 10-10 to RCBS ChargeMaster to Gen 1 Prometheus, knowing what I know now the ChargeMaster was a waste of money, CM are time savers but there not more accurite than a well tuned 10-10, and niether is better at anything when compared to the Prometheus.
I have been from beam to electronic back to beam, or 10-10 to RCBS ChargeMaster to Gen 1 Prometheus, knowing what I know now the ChargeMaster was a waste of money, CM are time savers but there not more accurite than a well tuned 10-10, and niether is better at anything when compared to the Prometheus.
Re: Digital Scale help?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been from beam to electronic back to beam, or 10-10 to RCBS ChargeMaster to Gen 1 Prometheus, knowing what I know now the ChargeMaster was a waste of money, CM are time savers but there not more accurite than a well tuned 10-10, and niether is better at anything when compared to the Prometheus. </div></div>
8 days ago you recommended someone buy one as the gold standard of dispensers, now they are a piece of junk?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That piece of art replaced a chargemaster, get a chargemaster, there the gold standard of electronic dispensers. </div></div>
As a guy with 2 Chargemasters I'd say that there are more accurate scale options out there, but the Chargemaster is hard to beat for speed and convenience. Also, when used correctly, they can be "accurate enough" for most shooting and most shooters.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been from beam to electronic back to beam, or 10-10 to RCBS ChargeMaster to Gen 1 Prometheus, knowing what I know now the ChargeMaster was a waste of money, CM are time savers but there not more accurite than a well tuned 10-10, and niether is better at anything when compared to the Prometheus. </div></div>
8 days ago you recommended someone buy one as the gold standard of dispensers, now they are a piece of junk?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That piece of art replaced a chargemaster, get a chargemaster, there the gold standard of electronic dispensers. </div></div>
As a guy with 2 Chargemasters I'd say that there are more accurate scale options out there, but the Chargemaster is hard to beat for speed and convenience. Also, when used correctly, they can be "accurate enough" for most shooting and most shooters.
Re: Digital Scale help?
Last week I got the Lyman, it was less than god, I should have read the reviews first.I took it back.
I just bought the 1500 Chargemaster and checked the first 100 (I'm an anal engineer) charges on my 5-0-5 and they were all dead on. I also did the straw trick right off the bat.
So far so good but I've only had it for 3 days now.
Last week I got the Lyman, it was less than god, I should have read the reviews first.I took it back.
I just bought the 1500 Chargemaster and checked the first 100 (I'm an anal engineer) charges on my 5-0-5 and they were all dead on. I also did the straw trick right off the bat.
So far so good but I've only had it for 3 days now.
Re: Digital Scale help?
Now Jason I didn't say the CM was Junk, in the mass market of digital dispensers a ChargeMaster is the gold standard, but as far rock solid repeatability over and over again a beam scale is the winner, but there slow when compared the CM, BJ87 was asking about accuracy, in this world of electronic wiz bang gizmos old school is the clear winner in repeatable accuracy.
Now Jason I didn't say the CM was Junk, in the mass market of digital dispensers a ChargeMaster is the gold standard, but as far rock solid repeatability over and over again a beam scale is the winner, but there slow when compared the CM, BJ87 was asking about accuracy, in this world of electronic wiz bang gizmos old school is the clear winner in repeatable accuracy.
Re: Digital Scale help?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And for me the CM was a waste of my money, because it wasn't what I wanted</div></div>
LOL, well some of have to slum the CMs until we can get a Prom 1 or 2, I'll keep dreaming.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And for me the CM was a waste of my money, because it wasn't what I wanted</div></div>
LOL, well some of have to slum the CMs until we can get a Prom 1 or 2, I'll keep dreaming.
Re: Digital Scale help?
There is a major difference between a set of scales and a digital measurement device.
That difference is, when the scale is not operating well, you can see it, and fix it. You see, the precision of the scale is determined by the amount of friction in the pivot points (fulcrum,...). You can tell if the scale is operating precisely by weighting a charge, and then disturbing the platen with a toothpick so that the balance is thrown off. If the scale returns to the exact point it held originally, the scale is operating precisely. And if not, this gives you an indication as to how far off it might be.
In addition one can clean the pivot points on a scale, and with my Redding scale, I can measure precisely down into the 0.025 grain level (1/4 of 0.1 grains) with a clean set of pivot points.
Cheap, cleanable, last forever, no drift, What is not to like. (Oh, yeah, that hard to read thing...)
There is a major difference between a set of scales and a digital measurement device.
That difference is, when the scale is not operating well, you can see it, and fix it. You see, the precision of the scale is determined by the amount of friction in the pivot points (fulcrum,...). You can tell if the scale is operating precisely by weighting a charge, and then disturbing the platen with a toothpick so that the balance is thrown off. If the scale returns to the exact point it held originally, the scale is operating precisely. And if not, this gives you an indication as to how far off it might be.
In addition one can clean the pivot points on a scale, and with my Redding scale, I can measure precisely down into the 0.025 grain level (1/4 of 0.1 grains) with a clean set of pivot points.
Cheap, cleanable, last forever, no drift, What is not to like. (Oh, yeah, that hard to read thing...)
Re: Digital Scale help?
"in this world of electronic wiz bang gizmos old school is the clear winner in repeatable accuracy."
Amen. And digital dumpsters are "faster" only if the beam scale/trickler/manual measure users use them incorrectly.
"in this world of electronic wiz bang gizmos old school is the clear winner in repeatable accuracy."
Amen. And digital dumpsters are "faster" only if the beam scale/trickler/manual measure users use them incorrectly.
Re: Digital Scale help?
Fuzzball;
Could you be so good as to tell us how to use the trickler correctly?
Thanking you in advance.
Fuzzball;
Could you be so good as to tell us how to use the trickler correctly?
Thanking you in advance.
Re: Digital Scale help?
I dunno - from my experience the main advantage of electronic scales from start to finish they are much faster at weighing than beam scales. That said, they aren't as consistent as beam scales, so there is a time and place for them.
For plinking ammo I would normally use a simple powder thrower and just weigh with an electronic scale every "nth" charge to make sure there's a minimum standard of consistency.
For match ammo, it's all about consistency however, so each charge gets weighed carefully. But I tend to use a digital scale/dispenser to do the initial charge slightly under and then place it on a beam scale and trickle from there. The reason being the dispensers can be inconsistent but rarely mine have been more than 0.3gr off at any given time. So I purposely under throw and then trickle by hand into a reliable beam scale for the final charge. This double weighing for me has resulted in very consistent match ammo...of course, your mileage may vary.
Bottom line - for match ammo don't rely 100% on digital scales.
I dunno - from my experience the main advantage of electronic scales from start to finish they are much faster at weighing than beam scales. That said, they aren't as consistent as beam scales, so there is a time and place for them.
For plinking ammo I would normally use a simple powder thrower and just weigh with an electronic scale every "nth" charge to make sure there's a minimum standard of consistency.
For match ammo, it's all about consistency however, so each charge gets weighed carefully. But I tend to use a digital scale/dispenser to do the initial charge slightly under and then place it on a beam scale and trickle from there. The reason being the dispensers can be inconsistent but rarely mine have been more than 0.3gr off at any given time. So I purposely under throw and then trickle by hand into a reliable beam scale for the final charge. This double weighing for me has resulted in very consistent match ammo...of course, your mileage may vary.
Bottom line - for match ammo don't rely 100% on digital scales.
Re: Digital Scale help?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That difference is, when the scale is not operating well, you can see it, and fix it. You see, the precision of the scale is determined by the amount of friction in the pivot points (fulcrum,...). You can tell if the scale is operating precisely by weighting a charge, and then disturbing the platen with a toothpick so that the balance is thrown off. If the scale returns to the exact point it held originally, the scale is operating precisely. And if not, this gives you an indication as to how far off it might be.
In addition one can clean the pivot points on a scale, and with my Redding scale, I can measure precisely down into the 0.025 grain level (1/4 of 0.1 grains) with a clean set of pivot points.</div></div>
I don't want to hijack this thread, but can you explain a good way to clean the pivot points that will not promote rust, dust sticking, etc?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That difference is, when the scale is not operating well, you can see it, and fix it. You see, the precision of the scale is determined by the amount of friction in the pivot points (fulcrum,...). You can tell if the scale is operating precisely by weighting a charge, and then disturbing the platen with a toothpick so that the balance is thrown off. If the scale returns to the exact point it held originally, the scale is operating precisely. And if not, this gives you an indication as to how far off it might be.
In addition one can clean the pivot points on a scale, and with my Redding scale, I can measure precisely down into the 0.025 grain level (1/4 of 0.1 grains) with a clean set of pivot points.</div></div>
I don't want to hijack this thread, but can you explain a good way to clean the pivot points that will not promote rust, dust sticking, etc?
Re: Digital Scale help?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Amen. And digital dumpsters are "faster" only if the beam scale/trickler/manual measure users use them incorrectly.
</div></div>
Umm...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Amen. And digital dumpsters are "faster" only if the beam scale/trickler/manual measure users use them incorrectly.
</div></div>
Umm...
Re: Digital Scale help?
I don't know if Scott is still providing this service, its been a while for those that want to use a beam ballance. I could would not thing about not having one, if for nothing else than to check other weighing devices.
"Scott Parker can modify balance beam scales to enhance sensitivity and more importantly, repeatability. Scott tells us: "You can literally count kernels with these scales--after tuning, the scales typically gain a half order of magnitude in sensitivity and a full order of magnitude in repeatability. Outside of a $250+ laboratory scale, a tuned beam scale is the most accurate and precise balance you can buy. I have tuned several 10-10s. They all have turned out very sensitive, consistent and hold linearity like a dream. The sensitivity after tuning is such that one kernel of powder registers a poise beam deflection. For repeatability, I remove the pan and replace it for the zero 10 times. The zero line and the poise beam balance line must coincide for each of those 10 tries. I then set the poises to read 250.0 grains. I remove and replace the pan 10 times with the calibration weight. For repeatability, the poise beam balance line must return to that same balance point ten times. I then adjust the poises back to zero and recheck the zero. A report is generated detailing the initial inspection of the balance, the corrective actions performed and any remaining concerns. I sell Ohaus type 10-10 and model 5-10 scales for $70.00 + shipping. I can also modify your existing 5-10 or 10-10 scales for $20.00 + shipping. Email me at [email protected] or call (661) 364-1199."
I don't know if Scott is still providing this service, its been a while for those that want to use a beam ballance. I could would not thing about not having one, if for nothing else than to check other weighing devices.
"Scott Parker can modify balance beam scales to enhance sensitivity and more importantly, repeatability. Scott tells us: "You can literally count kernels with these scales--after tuning, the scales typically gain a half order of magnitude in sensitivity and a full order of magnitude in repeatability. Outside of a $250+ laboratory scale, a tuned beam scale is the most accurate and precise balance you can buy. I have tuned several 10-10s. They all have turned out very sensitive, consistent and hold linearity like a dream. The sensitivity after tuning is such that one kernel of powder registers a poise beam deflection. For repeatability, I remove the pan and replace it for the zero 10 times. The zero line and the poise beam balance line must coincide for each of those 10 tries. I then set the poises to read 250.0 grains. I remove and replace the pan 10 times with the calibration weight. For repeatability, the poise beam balance line must return to that same balance point ten times. I then adjust the poises back to zero and recheck the zero. A report is generated detailing the initial inspection of the balance, the corrective actions performed and any remaining concerns. I sell Ohaus type 10-10 and model 5-10 scales for $70.00 + shipping. I can also modify your existing 5-10 or 10-10 scales for $20.00 + shipping. Email me at [email protected] or call (661) 364-1199."
Re: Digital Scale help?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FoxtrotBravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't want to hijack this thread, but can you explain a good way to clean the pivot points that will not promote rust, dust sticking, etc? </div></div>
{This used to be so easy when Trichloroethane was available...}
I use brake cleaner and cue-tips. Clean the fulcrum and the bearing with wipting action. Clean the other pivot points with brake cleaner and cue tip by sort of smashing the top of the cue-tip into the wire loops. Let dry for about 1 hour. Then one small drop of gun oil on a cue tip and just touch the pivot points, leaving the fulcrum dry.
Repeat anytime the scale seems to loose precision.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FoxtrotBravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't want to hijack this thread, but can you explain a good way to clean the pivot points that will not promote rust, dust sticking, etc? </div></div>
{This used to be so easy when Trichloroethane was available...}
I use brake cleaner and cue-tips. Clean the fulcrum and the bearing with wipting action. Clean the other pivot points with brake cleaner and cue tip by sort of smashing the top of the cue-tip into the wire loops. Let dry for about 1 hour. Then one small drop of gun oil on a cue tip and just touch the pivot points, leaving the fulcrum dry.
Repeat anytime the scale seems to loose precision.
Re: Digital Scale help?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugsly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">found this at a garage sale, been pretty good so far
</div></div>
Garage sells are the best places to find those things. I flip them on eBay all the time.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ugsly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">found this at a garage sale, been pretty good so far
</div></div>Garage sells are the best places to find those things. I flip them on eBay all the time.
Re: Digital Scale help?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FoxtrotBravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't want to hijack this thread, but can you explain a good way to clean the pivot points that will not promote rust, dust sticking, etc? </div></div>
{This used to be so easy when Trichloroethane was available...}
I use brake cleaner and cue-tips. Clean the fulcrum and the bearing with wipting action. Clean the other pivot points with brake cleaner and cue tip by sort of smashing the top of the cue-tip into the wire loops. Let dry for about 1 hour. Then one small drop of gun oil on a cue tip and just touch the pivot points, leaving the fulcrum dry.
Repeat anytime the scale seems to loose precision.</div></div>
Thanks a lot! I'll give that a try.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MitchAlsup</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: FoxtrotBravo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't want to hijack this thread, but can you explain a good way to clean the pivot points that will not promote rust, dust sticking, etc? </div></div>
{This used to be so easy when Trichloroethane was available...}
I use brake cleaner and cue-tips. Clean the fulcrum and the bearing with wipting action. Clean the other pivot points with brake cleaner and cue tip by sort of smashing the top of the cue-tip into the wire loops. Let dry for about 1 hour. Then one small drop of gun oil on a cue tip and just touch the pivot points, leaving the fulcrum dry.
Repeat anytime the scale seems to loose precision.</div></div>
Thanks a lot! I'll give that a try.
Re: Digital Scale help?
After nearly 3 decades us using my RCBS 304 (Ohaus) which I truly love and still sits on my bench, my best friend convinced me to get the VIC 123. OMG! It's the shiiiit! I love this thing. It's so frickin fast! My standard, when loading my 6.5x47L with H4350 is +/- .02 gr. I simply use a tweezer to take or put a single grain of powder. My friend ALWAYS gets less than 12 ES with his loads because of this thing.
Alan
After nearly 3 decades us using my RCBS 304 (Ohaus) which I truly love and still sits on my bench, my best friend convinced me to get the VIC 123. OMG! It's the shiiiit! I love this thing. It's so frickin fast! My standard, when loading my 6.5x47L with H4350 is +/- .02 gr. I simply use a tweezer to take or put a single grain of powder. My friend ALWAYS gets less than 12 ES with his loads because of this thing.
Alan
Re: Digital Scale help?
My Chargemaster has never let me down and would by another one tomorrow if I needed one.
My Chargemaster has never let me down and would by another one tomorrow if I needed one.
Re: Digital Scale help?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jedi8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Chargemaster has never let me down and would by another one tomorrow if I needed one. </div></div>
I absolutely agree with this statement. If mine goes down, I'll first email RCBS and see if they'll fix it. If not, I'll buy another one on the spot. I LOVE this thing.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jedi8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My Chargemaster has never let me down and would by another one tomorrow if I needed one. </div></div>
I absolutely agree with this statement. If mine goes down, I'll first email RCBS and see if they'll fix it. If not, I'll buy another one on the spot. I LOVE this thing.
Re: Digital Scale help?
"Fuzzball; Could you be so good as to tell us how to use the trickler correctly?"
Sure. But it isn't just the trickler, as such, it's the whole arrangement of the tools on the bench for a good work flow. I rarely see photos of loading benches with the powder handling equipment well positioned. MOST of the time I see beam scales sitting flat on the bench top, measurers on the press or edge of the bench, etc, all very poor (awkard/slow to use) locations!
Locate a powder measure in a bench mount in proper relation to the press and adjust the measure so there is little need to trickle, then put the beam scale at or near eye level and use a good trickler (Redding). Producing precise charges manually can be very nearly as fast as any digital dumpster system.
I can rapidly size, measure/weight each (rifle) charge and seat bullets without moving my feet. My young friends with costly digital dumpsters are amazed at how quickly my reloading goes. And, sometimes, how well my ammo shoots.
"Fuzzball; Could you be so good as to tell us how to use the trickler correctly?"
Sure. But it isn't just the trickler, as such, it's the whole arrangement of the tools on the bench for a good work flow. I rarely see photos of loading benches with the powder handling equipment well positioned. MOST of the time I see beam scales sitting flat on the bench top, measurers on the press or edge of the bench, etc, all very poor (awkard/slow to use) locations!
Locate a powder measure in a bench mount in proper relation to the press and adjust the measure so there is little need to trickle, then put the beam scale at or near eye level and use a good trickler (Redding). Producing precise charges manually can be very nearly as fast as any digital dumpster system.
I can rapidly size, measure/weight each (rifle) charge and seat bullets without moving my feet. My young friends with costly digital dumpsters are amazed at how quickly my reloading goes. And, sometimes, how well my ammo shoots.
Re: Digital Scale help?
Link to a very fast beam scale setup, drop straight into the pan, in the past I used a pan with a funnel built in, which helped
http://shootingsoftware.com/smallprojects.htm
Link to a very fast beam scale setup, drop straight into the pan, in the past I used a pan with a funnel built in, which helped
http://shootingsoftware.com/smallprojects.htm
