Disappointed new Vudoo V22 Sinister Owner

[jpv22]

I recently purchased a Gen 2 Vudoo V22 Sinister with a 16.5 ace barrel and Grayboe stock. I have an Athlon 40x scope mounted and shoot off a Sinclair bipod. It’s the same setup that I use on my Winchester 52d. So far I have put over 600 rounds down range. For me it does not shoot consistently at all. I have tried 2 different lots of Center x, 2 different lots of Midas +, 2 different lots of Eley match and a variety of SK. It has not been able to shoot 2 groups back to back at sub moa at either 50 or 100 yards. I purchased this rifle with 50 yard bench rest and NRL competition in mind.
On a 50 yard USBR target I have shoot in the 240’s with 10-14x with my Winchester 52d. So far the best that I can do with the Vudoo is 228 with 4x. The question is did I get a bad example of a Vudoo? Do I need to put another 500 + rounds through it before it might becomes any good?
Also I use the Vudoo bore guide and I am very picky with cleaning the rifle. When looking through the bore with a scope everything looks great. The crown looks perfect. The bolt is very smooth and I have never had any feed or eject issues.
Any suggestions or helpful hints from other Vudoo owners would be greatly appreciated.

 

[KnowNothing256]

Call VGW, they're highly responsive and helpful. That would absolutely be my first stop, other than checking things like action screw torque, barrel free-float, and other common mechanical issues.

 

[jpv22]

Thanks. I talked with VDW and set the action screws to 45 inch pounds per there recommendation. I have checked and the barrel, a Kurki profile, is free floating. I will give them another call they are very responsive.

 

[littlepod]

Did you check your scope rail to make sure it's tight? I've seen a few come loose.

 

[jbell]

In addition to checking all fasteners for proper torque have you checked how the action fits in the chassis (looking for stress in the bedding), confirmed that the front action screw is not too long and bottoming out as opposed to holding the action tight in the stock? Confirmed the scope is not the problem?

Those are the first few things I would do…

 

[jpv22]

I have checked the scope rail, rings, and bedding. Great advice.

I Just spoke with Greg at VDW. His advice is to use c4 on the chamber and clean then put 3-400 rounds through it to see if it will tighten up. He feels that getting the barrel fouled up will help. If that doesn’t work he said call him back and they will make it right. Great people to deal with!

 

[littlepod]

Is your chamber face perfectly clean? No scraping of the bullet happening at all when you're feeding rounds?

 

[Mike Casselton]

Have you checked to verify that you can remove all parallax from the optic?

Have you tried a known good scope?

 

[JM4590]

Have you tried a known good scope?

^^^

 

[Painterbolt]

Just my experience. I own 2 custom bench rest 22’s that my kids shoot ABRA with and a bergera that I’ve dumped a lot of money into. From my experience 22 guns are very finicky, one day they will shoot one hole and the next I’m shooting 2 inches.

 

[jpv22]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I have done the standard checks with the hardware. The scope is one that I have used on my Win 52 d and have shot a 244 with. I’ve checked all the torque settings for tension screws and rail, and rings. I’ve examined the Greyboe stock looking for any issues. It all checks out. I will do as Greg suggests and see if it improves.

 

[Painterbolt]

Probably good advice, my older bench gun improved a lot at around that round count. My newest one with only about 100 down it is far from impressive.

 

[Lastsaint21]

You do need to make sure you get it broke in. My Vudoo will not impress anyone with SK a Lapua..It will with RWS though.

 

[littlesister]

I recently purchased a Gen 2 Vudoo V22 Sinister with a 16.5 ace barrel and Grayboe stock. I have an Athlon 40x scope mounted and shoot off a Sinclair bipod. It’s the same setup that I use on my Winchester 52d. So far I have put over 600 rounds down range. For me it does not shoot consistently at all. I have tried 2 different lots of Center x, 2 different lots of Midas +, 2 different lots of Eley match and a variety of SK. It has not been able to shoot 2 groups back to back at sub moa at either 50 or 100 yards. I purchased this rifle with 50 yard bench rest and NRL competition in mind.
On a 50 yard USBR target I have shoot in the 240’s with 10-14x with my Winchester 52d. So far the best that I can do with the Vudoo is 228 with 4x. The question is did I get a bad example of a Vudoo? Do I need to put another 500 + rounds through it before it might becomes any good?
Also I use the Vudoo bore guide and I am very picky with cleaning the rifle. When looking through the bore with a scope everything looks great. The crown looks perfect. The bolt is very smooth and I have never had any feed or eject issues.
Any suggestions or helpful hints from other Vudoo owners would be greatly appreciated.

Something no one has mentioned checking is the recoil lug. If the stock inletting is not correct the front action screw will torque against the recoil lug rather than the action assuming your stock has not been bedded. I have found this to be a problem on a couple of aftermarket stocks I've used. You can check for this by removing the action screws and rocking the action or by filling the inlet with modeling clay to check the fit. Actually the recoil lug serves no purpose on a 22lr but can cause all kinds of accuracy problems if not bedded correctly. Also whats up with this 45 inch pounds of torque. Vudoo has been recommending 65 on their actions which also seems high as most 22s shoot somewhere between 30 and 40. Simply because I'm such a nice person I'll throw in one final thought! Why in the world would you go with a 16.5 in barrel if you plan to shoot any form of benchrest!!!

 

[KnowNothing256]

Something no one has mentioned checking is the recoil lug. If the stock inletting is not correct the front action screw will torque against the recoil lug rather than the action assuming your stock has not been bedded. I have found this to be a problem on a couple of aftermarket stocks I've used. You can check for this by removing the action screws and rocking the action or by filling the inlet with modeling clay to check the fit. Actually the recoil lug serves no purpose on a 22lr but can cause all kinds of accuracy problems if not bedded correctly. Also whats up with this 45 inch pounds of torque. Vudoo has been recommending 65 on their actions which also seems high as most 22s shoot somewhere between 30 and 40. Simply because I'm such a nice person I'll throw in one final thought! Why in the world would you go with a 16.5 in barrel if you plan to shoot any form of benchrest!!!

Not a bad thought, but the recoil lug on the Vudoo is pretty tiny, it rides maybe 1/4" below the bottom of the action, as opposed to a centerfire R700 which is more like 1/2". If the Grayboe is inletted specifically for the Vudoo and done incorrectly, then yes, this is a concern. However, if it's a standard R700 inlet, no way is the Vudoo recoil lug bottoming out in the lug recess.

 

[Ericsl2]

Something no one has mentioned checking is the recoil lug. If the stock inletting is not correct the front action screw will torque against the recoil lug rather than the action assuming your stock has not been bedded. I have found this to be a problem on a couple of aftermarket stocks I've used. You can check for this by removing the action screws and rocking the action or by filling the inlet with modeling clay to check the fit. Actually the recoil lug serves no purpose on a 22lr but can cause all kinds of accuracy problems if not bedded correctly. Also whats up with this 45 inch pounds of torque. Vudoo has been recommending 65 on their actions which also seems high as most 22s shoot somewhere between 30 and 40. Simply because I'm such a nice person I'll throw in one final thought! Why in the world would you go with a 16.5 in barrel if you plan to shoot any form of benchrest!!!the

Just curious but what real benefit does a longer barrel have over the 16.5" in the benchrest game? I doubt increased velocity would be the reason because if it's there, it's minimal. Extra weight on the front end to compensate for muzzle rise? It's not really there to begin with on a 22. I'm not knocking your opinion at all, just really curious

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I'd still try a different scope, or put the scope back on your 52D and check groups. My Vudoo suddenly became very inconsistent. Scope had taken a dump after working fine for quite awhile.

 

[Taylorbok]

+4 For checking the scope, put on a known good scope or put it on a rifle you know shoots.

 

[jpv22]

Checked scope on 52d worked like it should. Shot another 100 rounds today and finally it is starting to close up some.

Just curious but what real benefit does a longer barrel have over the 16.5" in the benchrest game? I doubt increased velocity would be the reason because if it's there, it's minimal. Extra weight on the front end to compensate for muzzle rise? It's not really there to begin with on a 22. I'm not knocking your opinion at all, just really curious

Something no one has mentioned checking is the recoil lug. If the stock inletting is not correct the front action screw will torque against the recoil lug rather than the action assuming your stock has not been bedded. I have found this to be a problem on a couple of aftermarket stocks I've used. You can check for this by removing the action screws and rocking the action or by filling the inlet with modeling clay to check the fit. Actually the recoil lug serves no purpose on a 22lr but can cause all kinds of accuracy problems if not bedded correctly. Also whats up with this 45 inch pounds of torque. Vudoo has been recommending 65 on their actions which also seems high as most 22s shoot somewhere between 30 and 40. Simply because I'm such a nice person I'll throw in one final thought! Why in the world would you go with a 16.5 in barrel if you plan to shoot any form of benchrest!!!

The torque specs from Greyboe and a call to VGW verified that on this stock it is 45lbs. I will check the recoil lug again today. We are having a club br match tomorrow and I will go ahead and use it. The weather is supposed to be raining and gusty winds. It should give me an advantage because I practice in adverse conditions just to get better at reading wind. The reason for the 16.5 inch Barrel is I wanted something that I can use for NRL. Also I have a Winchester 52d with an 18 inch barrel and it shots awesome out to 300 yards. A shorter barrel is an advantage for me because all the powder is spent at 16 inches and there is less time in the barrel so my follow through can’t interfere as much with poi.

 

[Badjujuu]

Good to hear your groups are closing up little bit. Sorry you're having a completely different experience from myself or others. VGW always came thru for me in regards to any issues i might have or question about their products.

I'm the complete opposite to you, i specifically asked for longer barrel - currently running 22" MTU. I don't mind the rounds slowing down little bit.

Absolutely see the advantage to 16.5 during NRL matches, especially during movement on barricades.

Good luck on the match tomorrow!

 

[KnowNothing256]

Good to hear your groups are closing up little bit. Sorry you're having a completely different experience from myself or others. VGW always came thru for me in regards to any issues i might have or question about their products.

I'm the complete opposite to you, i specifically asked for longer barrel - currently running 22" MTU. I don't mind the rounds slowing down little bit.

Absolutely see the advantage to 16.5 during NRL matches, especially during movement on barricades.

Good luck on the match tomorrow!

Tell me more about these advantages

 

[Badjujuu]

Oh boy, I'm sure there is plenty of other threads on here folks can hash those short 22 barrels advantages out.......

But I'm not the OP so y'all fire away!!!!!!

 

[littlesister]

Oh boy, I'm sure there is plenty of other threads on here folks can hash those short 22 barrels advantages out.......

But I'm not the OP so y'all fire away!!!!!!

Yes, I should have left off that barrel remark but I just couldn't help myself. I doubt the barrel is the problem but when all else fails that's where you need to look. Hope he finds the problem and the gun turns into a real shooter!!!

 

[Shoots 700's]

I don't think barrel length or anything to do with the barrel is the issue. Scope is my bet. Both Vudoos i have shot the ammo thur th3 same hole at 50 yards

 

[grauhanen]

While longer barrels often lend themselves more easily for effective tuning with a barrel tuner, the short length of the barrel itself shouldn't be an issue as far as it's accuracy potential is concerned. If the scope/mounts and bedding/action screw torque are sound as the OP says, that leaves two possibilities for the rifle continuing to produce the disappointing results of not being able to shoot back-to-back sub-MOA groups at 50 yards.

The first is the bore. Not all bores made by the same manufacturer are equal. As a result some barrels just don't shoot well. Although some sub-MOA groups suggest the bore may not be the culprit, and even though a borescope can't reveal all problems, the bore should nevertheless be scoped for obvious problems.

The second is the ammo. Even inconsistent lots can produce some decent groups. They have difficulty, however, in producing consecutive good groups. The OP doesn't say how the ammo compares in another good rifle. Lots that shoot satisfactorily in one rifle may not do so in others.

 

[68hoyt]

I keep seeing people ask why a recoil lug on a 22 , I read a discussion that the Anschutz guys were having about the little recoil lug on the 54 and why it’s needed for a 22 , the school of thought is not recoil but to keep the action from twisting /moving when you operate the bolt so the action stays in the same place thus promoting accuracy

 

[KnowNothing256]

I keep seeing people ask why a recoil lug on a 22 , I read a discussion that the Anschutz guys were having about the little recoil lug on the 54 and why it’s needed for a 22 , the school of thought is not recoil but to keep the action from twisting /moving when you operate the bolt so the action stays in the same place thus promoting accuracy

Hmm, I don't buy that, there's more than enough clearance on either side of my Vudoo recoil lug to twist the action in the chassis if it's not bolted in. Action screws at anything resembling reasonable torque values are what prevent the rotation around the bore axis you're describing.

 

[obx22]

Hmmm,
Have you had friends of known ability shoot the Vudoo?
Have you fired on a round, raised bolt but not ejected, then set up an dryfire on the same case while studying the crosshairs for movement?
Have you examined the firing pin impacts on the case rims?
Are they uniform case to case?
Is the barrel floated? Even when in the rest as though firing?
Have you slugged the bore?
How have you cleaned the bore/broke in/ etc?
Is the barrel threaded and have you shot with/without a thread cover or any type of compensator-tuner?
How many different types of ammo have you tested?
Does the bolt handle bounce during firing?
How does the crown appear? Powder blast pattern uniform?
Any chance at all that the front action screw contacts the barrel’s threads/tenon?
Was everything assembled “loaded” in the proper direction while being snugged up prior to torque?
Have you carefully examined rounds loaded, chambered, then ejected without firing, for damage and scrapes and dents-dings?
Have you tried single loading/hand chambering for groups?
There is a whole laundry list of crap to test or examine while troubleshooting other’s firearms, even more so remotely with no pics, and without knowing the OP’s skill-set or history. A Vudoo is not a 52D, and group comparison is purely apples to oranges at anything closer than 100yds.

 

[littlesister]

Hmm, I don't buy that, there's more than enough clearance on either side of my Vudoo recoil lug to twist the action in the chassis if it's not bolted in. Action screws at anything resembling reasonable torque values are what prevent the rotation around the bore axis you're describing.

I totally agree! The most accurate custom benchrest 22 actions being used today do not use recoil lugs and for a good reason. They tend to cause vertical stringing if not bedded properly. The instructions with my stock said to make sure the recoil lug was up against the rear of the inlet. Actually your action screws determine action position. My recoil lug was bottoming out before the action. I removed material from the recoil lug inlet and bedded only the recoil lug. The gun is a real shooter. The point I was trying to make in my first reply to the OP was simply that the recoil lug inlet needs to be checked no matter what the stock maker says.

 

[68hoyt]

On a properly set up Anschutz or any rimfire with a proper factory bedding the recoil lug will have enough room to remove the action from the stock but have a good fit on the horizontal fit to keep the action from twisting , all it takes is the action to move a few thousandths and the scope will move twice as much causing you group to shift

 

[jpv22]

My Vudoo is settling down. In my match today I finished 1st. It is starting to shoot more consistent. It was a blustery and rainy day to shoot. I’m glad I practice in those conditions. I followed Greg's advice from VGW for cleaning. I also checked everything as per suggestion from people here on the forum. Thank you all for the advice.

 

[obx22]

My Vudoo is settling down. In my match today I finished 1st. It is starting to shoot more consistent. It was a blustery and rainy day to shoot. I’m glad I practice in those conditions. I followed Greg's advice from VGW for cleaning. I also checked everything as per suggestion from people here on the forum. Thank you all for the advice.

So, no “smoking gun” if you’ll pardon the pun?

 

[Kadams1563]

One thing about my Vudoo is when shooting from. Bipod or from any barricade you have to “drive” the rifle much harder then my center fire. It will group all over the place unless I put the same physical force against the rifle. I believe the .22 is slow enough that the gun moves much more before the bullet exits the muzzle. Center fire not so much.

 

[littlepod]

One thing about my Vudoo is when shooting from. Bipod or from any barricade you have to “drive” the rifle much harder then my center fire. It will group all over the place unless I put the same physical force against the rifle. I believe the .22 is slow enough that the gun moves much more before the bullet exits the muzzle. Center fire not so much.

Yep. Shooting a 22 will expose a lot of fundamentals issues much more than centerfire given the dwell time the bullet is in the rifle - 1000fps versus 2800fps, so about 3 times slower on the 22 leaving the barrel. 22 is a great practice tool.

On top of just driving the rifle, there's natural point of aim and trigger control.

If you ran a 10lb centerfire 308 rig, you probably would have to drive that a bit more too...

 

[obx22]

One thing about my Vudoo is when shooting from. Bipod or from any barricade you have to “drive” the rifle much harder then my center fire. It will group all over the place unless I put the same physical force against the rifle. I believe the .22 is slow enough that the gun moves much more before the bullet exits the muzzle. Center fire not so much.

Weird thing, I’ve owned and shot a butt-load of rimfires in my life.
For a time I owned a Anschutz 54M (.22Mag), and no matter what I did, or what ammo I used, it grouped poorly.
I had a guy shoot it who was standing around just admiring it. He knocks out a 1” group at 100. I reloaded and asked him to do it again, he drops it to 3/4”!
The second time I was studying how he shot the gun, he was much more burly than me and really pulled that gun into his shoulder. I tried death-gripping it and low and behold, Wow! tiny groups! It’s the only gun I’ve owned that was that way, but it taught me that guns are peculiar in vibration and resonance, even fully free floating barrels. That particular rifle even put two types of ammo in the same zero, one a HP, the other a Solid. That “let someone else try” has become a staple suggestion I parrot now, cause sometimes it’s us- not the gun.

 

[RAVAGE88]

^^^^ Thanks for that, @obx22

I don't have a single rifle that I shoot just like I shoot all the others. While there are a few lists of things to check published in various posts in this thread, there's one thing on the various lists that's missing. What I'm about to say is difficult for most to hear, and I don't mean it from a position of condescension, arrogance, ego, etc., but as a means of how we should approach situations described by the OP.

When we see things like this, what do WE as shooters change first about what WE are doing behind the rifle that could change the outcome? I feel like this question addresses the elephant in the room, but, from dealing with so many of these types of "what the heck is wrong with my rifle" questions, there's typically been something the shooter was or wasn't doing that's changed that actually does more to fix the problem.

I'll never be one to say that the rifle isn't THE problem, but, it's not always the case. Frankly, it’s easier for us to make a 22LR shoot poorly than it is to make it shoot great.

Again, this isn't intended to step on any toes or hurt feelings; just a real part of what should be included in these discussions....

Hope it helps,
MB

 

[308pirate]

When we see things like this, what do WE as shooters change first about what WE are doing behind the rifle that could change the outcome? I feel like this question addresses the elephant in the room, but, from dealing with so many of these types of "what the heck is wrong with my rifle" questions, there's typically been something the shooter was or wasn't doing that's changed that actually does more to fix the problem.

That's the first thing that comes to my mind with every single thread like this, regardless of the type, brand, or caliber of the firearm.

The most common answer to the question "what the heck is wrong with my rifle/pistol/shotgun" is "you"

 

[grauhanen]

I'll never be one to say that the rifle isn't THE problem, but, it's not always the case. Frankly, it’s easier for us to make a 22LR shoot poorly than it is to make it shoot great.

More shooters should remember that a quality brand/model rifle isn't usually the problem. Buying a good rifle and expecting it to do the rest is a recipe for disappointment. How to shoot, what to shoot, and when to shoot are learned not bought.

 

[adubeau]

More shooters should remember that a quality brand/model rifle isn't usually the problem. Buying a good rifle and expecting it to do the rest is a recipe for disappointment. How to shoot, what to shoot, and when to shoot are learned not bought.

I have to admit, I fell for that - but I seen the evils of my ways and repented.

 

[RETE8]

Like we used to say when I was a PMI “It’s not the dope on the weapon, it’s the dope behind the weapon”

When my groups start to open up with my rimfires (Anschutz or Vudoo), it’s usually because I am getting lazy in regards to shoulder pressure and not following through.

 

[jpv22]

Like we used to say when I was a PMI “It’s not the dope on the weapon, it’s the dope behind the weapon”

When my groups start to open up with my rimfires (Anschutz or Vudoo), it’s usually because I am getting lazy in regards to shoulder pressure and not following through.

I have about 1200 rounds through my Vudoo now and things are getting much better. The ammo it seems to like best is my lot of SK standard plus. It has shot better than center x, Midas+, Tennex, Eley black box match. This morning I was able to shoot a 246 12x on a USBR 50 target in mild 3-6 mph wind. At 100 it was grouping at less than an 1 MOA. This rifle is impressive. It is now shooting better than my Winchester 52d. VGW was very helpful in walking me back off the ledge with their great advice. Thank you Greg. I'm glad my Vudoo has a beer taste for ammo instead of the champagne .

 

[Turkeytider]

As a relatively new rifle shooter, I`m beginning to believe that the number of things that can impact precision and accuracy are practically limitless. Makes shotguns and shotgun shooting appear downright crude! One could spend considerable time just studying and trying to adjust what one does as a shooter BEFORE one starts fiddling with all the nuts and screws! Then there`s the whole thing about what load your gun likes.

 

[AirGunShawn]

Without pretending to know why.... or even caring..... every gun I own shoots better when I hold the rifle and pull it into
my shoulder. Not much but a pound or two. I try not to use much pressures because I don't want my hands to get fatigued
over the course of a match. I wish I had a way to measure it.... maybe a pound or two as a starting point. That said, I feel it
all comes down to being consistent and now I'm having to re-teach myself how to shoot.

Weird thing, I’ve owned and shot a butt-load of rimfires in my life.
For a time I owned a Anschutz 54M (.22Mag), and no matter what I did, or what ammo I used, it grouped poorly.
I had a guy shoot it who was standing around just admiring it. He knocks out a 1” group at 100. I reloaded and asked him to do it again, he drops it to 3/4”!
The second time I was studying how he shot the gun, he was much more burly than me and really pulled that gun into his shoulder. I tried death-gripping it and low and behold, Wow! tiny groups! It’s the only gun I’ve owned that was that way, but it taught me that guns are peculiar in vibration and resonance, even fully free floating barrels. That particular rifle even put two types of ammo in the same zero, one a HP, the other a Solid. That “let someone else try” has become a staple suggestion I parrot now, cause sometimes it’s us- not the gun.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

being consistent

That's the key.

 

[Turkeytider]

That's the key.

It is, and not always as easy as it may sound, IMO.

 

[Kisssofdeath]

It is, and not always as easy as it may sound, IMO.

100% correct.

 

[Turkeytider]

^^^^ Thanks for that, @obx22

I don't have a single rifle that I shoot just like I shoot all the others. While there are a few lists of things to check published in various posts in this thread, there's one thing on the various lists that's missing. What I'm about to say is difficult for most to hear, and I don't mean it from a position of condescension, arrogance, ego, etc., but as a means of how we should approach situations described by the OP.

When we see things like this, what do WE as shooters change first about what WE are doing behind the rifle that could change the outcome? I feel like this question addresses the elephant in the room, but, from dealing with so many of these types of "what the heck is wrong with my rifle" questions, there's typically been something the shooter was or wasn't doing that's changed that actually does more to fix the problem.

I'll never be one to say that the rifle isn't THE problem, but, it's not always the case. Frankly, it’s easier for us to make a 22LR shoot poorly than it is to make it shoot great.

Again, this isn't intended to step on any toes or hurt feelings; just a real part of what should be included in these discussions....

Hope it helps,
MB

" Frankly, it`s easier for us to make a 22LR shoot poorly than it is to make it shoot great . " I`ll include rimfires in general. My .17HMR is a challenge at 100 yards for sub-MOA groups. Ammunition variability as far as consistency is concerned adds to the effects of shooter input and environmental factors. My 110 .223 is a far easier gun to shoot when it comes to printing sub-MOA groups.

 

[woody162]

I had the identical experience. Went a thousand rounds before sending the gun back. They agreed with me it did not shoot. Found a problem in the barrel. Very working the barrel and retesting the gun if it shoots fine if not they're sending me a new barrel. Cost me a couple of months of sleepless nights and a thousand rounds of Lapua center X but it should be resolved shortly.