DMR/QP/Precision Gas Gun Match Build

[hlpressley]

Looking to build something specifically for the purpose of shooting in DMR/QP style matches here on the East Coast. My main question is which caliber would you choose and why? Looking at 6mm ARC, 22 ARC, and 6 MAX. I would love to hear the why behind your choice. Thanks in advance!

 

[longshot2000]

I am partial to 6 ARC, but have not shot the others. I am comparing to 5.56 NATO and 6.5 Grendel, and have been impressed.

 

[Jsp556]

It’s more about the shooter than the gun. I’m pretty sure most stages can be cleaned with a 14.5”, 5.56 by design.

I’d decide which division I was shooting before I set up my gun.

I’ve wanted to shoot one of those matches for a while but haven’t yet. It’d be a feat to out shoot some of those QP guys.

 

[hlpressley]

It’s more about the shooter than the gun. I’m pretty sure most stages can be cleaned with a 14.5”, 5.56 by design.

I’d decide which division I was shooting before I set up my gun.

I’ve wanted to shoot one of those matches for a while but haven’t yet. It’d be a feat to out shoot some of those QP guys.

I’m not going to win, I’m going to learn. Just like to have something besides my 223/5.56 to play around with while learning. Essentially, I want a new gun and QP/DMR is what I will use it for. I by no means believe either will make me a better shooter or that my current setup is why I’m not winning.

 

[ClangClang]

I wouldn't choose 6max for at least another year. Supply chain is constrained, mags are hard to find, brass is even harder.

6 arc is a fine choice as long as you've got the budget to shoot it and don't do a cheap build. The guns with JP (or equivalent) parts seem to run well. The budget guns choke a lot more. Go for the longest barrel you can.

I dont know anyone shooting 22 arc.

Finally, before you do anything, take a look at the ballistic charts comparing any of these rounds to a good 77 gr 5.56 load (e.g. ELD-M or SMK) at the typical distances for QP matches. The drop and drift on any of these "exotic" calibers is only 0.1 or 0.2 mils better than 5.56. The difference is extremely small. Probably small enough that it's not worth the tradeoff when 5.56 is more reliable in every measurable category. A single malfunction will hurt your scores more than the tiny advantage conferred by these other calibers. Where they really shine is retained energy on target which is far more important to the DoD (or hunters) compared to shooting steel. You could argue that it makes it easier for spotters to call hits and see splash, but targets have electronic hit indicators and at east coast ranges you're mostly shooting into damp dirt that doesn't show splash anyway.

TLDR - make sure you understand the actual tradeoffs before jumping feet first into a new caliber. The advantages are smaller than you think.

 

[hlpressley]

I wouldn't choose 6max for at least another year. Supply chain is constrained, mags are hard to find, brass is even harder.

6 arc is a fine choice as long as you've got the budget to shoot it and don't do a cheap build. The guns with JP (or equivalent) parts seem to run well. The budget guns choke a lot more. Go for the longest barrel you can.

I dont know anyone shooting 22 arc.

Finally, before you do anything, take a look at the ballistic charts comparing any of these rounds to a good 77 gr 5.56 load (e.g. ELD-M or SMK) at the typical distances for QP matches. The drop and drift on any of these "exotic" calibers is only 0.1 or 0.2 mils better than 5.56. The difference is extremely small. Probably small enough that it's not worth the tradeoff when 5.56 is more reliable in every measurable category. A single malfunction will hurt your scores more than the tiny advantage conferred by these other calibers. Where they really shine is retained energy on target which is far more important to the DoD (or hunters) compared to shooting steel. You could argue that it makes it easier for spotters to call hits and see splash, but targets have electronic hit indicators and at east coast ranges you're mostly shooting into damp dirt that doesn't show splash anyway.

TLDR - make sure you understand the actual tradeoffs before jumping feet first into a new caliber. The advantages are smaller than you think.

Solid advice and why I made the post. Thanks for taking the time to reply in such detail.

 

[Cody S]

I'm all for new cartridges but the 22 arc sounds a fair bit over bore for just targets. I run a 6 creed real hot so I do love a good barrel burner. Just don't expect more than about maybe 2k rounds(total guess) on that tube before it's time to throw it away. in my opinion if you're set on the ARC, 6mm may be the way to go but idk. ballistics and recoil will be fair either way.

 

[davsco]

Ì assembled a 224 Valk with Mega frame, Ranier ultramatch barrel and jp internals. Before the newer calibers came out. Real nice shooter.

 

[towerofpower93]

I wouldn't choose 6max for at least another year. Supply chain is constrained, mags are hard to find, brass is even harder.

6 arc is a fine choice as long as you've got the budget to shoot it and don't do a cheap build. The guns with JP (or equivalent) parts seem to run well. The budget guns choke a lot more. Go for the longest barrel you can.

I dont know anyone shooting 22 arc.

Finally, before you do anything, take a look at the ballistic charts comparing any of these rounds to a good 77 gr 5.56 load (e.g. ELD-M or SMK) at the typical distances for QP matches. The drop and drift on any of these "exotic" calibers is only 0.1 or 0.2 mils better than 5.56. The difference is extremely small. Probably small enough that it's not worth the tradeoff when 5.56 is more reliable in every measurable category. A single malfunction will hurt your scores more than the tiny advantage conferred by these other calibers. Where they really shine is retained energy on target which is far more important to the DoD (or hunters) compared to shooting steel. You could argue that it makes it easier for spotters to call hits and see splash, but targets have electronic hit indicators and at east coast ranges you're mostly shooting into damp dirt that doesn't show splash anyway.

TLDR - make sure you understand the actual tradeoffs before jumping feet first into a new caliber. The advantages are smaller than you think.

All of that is good info. I've only shot one QP DMR match, but have shot PNTC's DMR matches for years. If I wasn't slinging a 77gr TMK out of a 5.56 AR, I'd be using a 6ARC from your list of choices. Most DMR matches require the shooter to spot their own misses, with the spotter only confirming impacts. The additional mass impacting the dirt might help you spot a miss and correct for the follow-up shot. Make sure you have it recoiling as soft and straight back as you can, since not seeing your misses is the number one issue folks seem to have in these self-spotting matches. If you can't see where you missed, you're just slinging rounds hoping for an impact.

 

[WindstormSCR]

I'd say 6 Arc because it has the most parts and ammo support, doesn't burn out barrels quickly (the 22 Arc is a barrel burner, even if it has excellent performance) and it also gives you a nice capability of taking larger sized game if you ever decide to hunt.

 

[Trigger Monkey]

All of that is good info. I've only shot one QP DMR match, but have shot PNTC's DMR matches for years. If I wasn't slinging a 77gr TMK out of a 5.56 AR, I'd be using a 6ARC from your list of choices. Most DMR matches require the shooter to spot their own misses, with the spotter only confirming impacts. The additional mass impacting the dirt might help you spot a miss and correct for the follow-up shot. Make sure you have it recoiling as soft and straight back as you can, since not seeing your misses is the number one issue folks seem to have in these self-spotting matches. If you can't see where you missed, you're just slinging rounds hoping for an impact.

I shot a bunch of the PNTC DMR matches from the time Tom P. started them until probably several years ago. I've seen some matches starting to come back to PNTC so I'm going to be on the look out when they come up so I can hopefully attend.

My experiences have been similar to ClangClang, a well set up 5.56 rifle with a 16-18" barrel slinging 75-77's will handle just about anything target wise you'll find at a DMR match inside of 600 yards. Additional energy on target has its disadvantages in a match environment and sometimes competitors would tune their 6.5CM, 6.5 Grendel, .224Valk to the bleeding edge of reliability in an effort to soft recoil. It's all good when it's clean but sometimes it can cause them to malfunction later in the day when they were dirty.

There are some good insights in this thread:

SPR/DMR matches: What are you running?

Hey bpair what charge weight are you running with your 77SMK? Good looking setup there!!

www.snipershide.com

Because I like showing it, 5.56 16" SPR

 

[Rudy Gonsior]

“I’m not going to win, I’m going to learn. Just like to have something besides my 223/5.56 to play around with while learning.”

This is not a good strategy, unless of course you’re one of the many people that simply enjoys chasing your own tail.

Any of the cartridges you mentioned do have ballistic advantages noticeable when in comparison to 5.56 match…when reviewing ballistic charts. What you don’t always see is the trade off in the time it takes to fuck with things to get it right.

Realistically you’re probably not going to be see a huge advantage starting out and it will likely detract from your time and focus, ultimately taking you longer to achieve your goals.

 

[Jack_L]

Something to consider:
While QP does not restrict calibers, some DMR matches will, and for those that do you'll likely wind up in open division if shooting one of the calibers on your list.
Now, that might not really matter, depending on what division you intend on shooting.

Personally, I'd be looking at a 20" barrel for any of those calibers. In QP that would put you in Practical Precision, where barrels are limited to 20" and magazine capacity is restricted to 20 rounds. With that kind of setup you will be competitive in open in a Non-QP format that puts you in an Open division, while not suffering from the magazine issues that seem to creep in with higher-capacity 6ARC mags. The 20" barrel will pull good velocity for you, keeping you competitive in both formats.

 

[B Man]

6 max needs more time to build more support of components behind it, 22arc is very interesting but ammo hasn’t really caught on yet but might change shortly. Imo 6 arc. It’s found a niche, been out and has a backing, manufactures are building on the caliber now, I feel ammo will keep increasing as well. Also, it is quickly becoming one of my favorite AR15 precision calibers. Very accurate with its high BC bullets and a little more splash than 22 cals to help spot impacts.

 

[towerofpower93]

I shot a bunch of the PNTC DMR matches from the time Tom P. started them until probably several years ago. I've seen some matches starting to come back to PNTC so I'm going to be on the look out when they come up so I can hopefully attend.

My experiences have been similar to ClangClang, a well set up 5.56 rifle with a 16-18" barrel slinging 75-77's will handle just about anything target wise you'll find at a DMR match inside of 600 yards. Additional energy on target has its disadvantages in a match environment and sometimes competitors would tune their 6.5CM, 6.5 Grendel, .224Valk to the bleeding edge of reliability in an effort to soft recoil. It's all good when it's clean but sometimes it can cause them to malfunction later in the day when they were dirty.

There are some good insights in this thread:

SPR/DMR matches: What are you running?

Hey bpair what charge weight are you running with your 77SMK? Good looking setup there!!

www.snipershide.com

Because I like showing it, 5.56 16" SPR

View attachment 8408594

I miss the Tom P. days at PNTC Some months I was shooting 2G, 3G, DMR, and an outlaw steel match. Basically lived there on Saturdays it seemed, haha.

They could do so much more with Freedom range from a match perspective, but they seem more interested in doing the training thing.