Do bore specific cans make any actual difference in sound reduction?

[Guns&WhiteWater]

Getting close to purchasing a dedicated can for a new build, this one will be for a lighter weight crossover rifle for general use, shooting 500 and in, and hunting. Primary goal is for max suppression, secondary goal is light weight. Parts: TL3, HNT26, Bartlein 6.5x47 and 223 barrels, all parts in hand or on order through SPR.

I have four centerfire cans, all 30 caliber (2 TBAC, 2 KGM), but am wondering if getting a 6.5 can would make an appreciable difference in suppressing the x47 and the 223.

Looking at the OCL Hydrogen L in 6.5 or possibly the DD Enticer L-Ti with removable end caps, vs the Magnus. I do like the weight, size, and cost savings of the first two. I have no experience with removable end caps or smaller bore cans.

If bore diameter doesn’t make much difference in practical sound suppression, then I will just stick with another 30 caliber can, but will go to a 6.5 bore if there’s a noticeable difference, especially with the 223.

 

[krw]

Stick with what you hav!!

 

[45-90]

I remember one test with a sound decibel meter, it made a difference to be caliber specific..but not much. At least for the suppressors in the test...a 6.5 fired in a 30 cal can made little difference from a 6.5 fired in a 6.5 can.

 

[Zak Smith]

Full stack cal specific gives about 3 dB, talking .30 cal and less

 

[65x55guy]

Full stack cal specific gives about 3 dB, talking .30 cal and less

Thread over.

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

Full stack cal specific gives about 3 dB, talking .30 cal and less

Thank you

 

[chevy_man]

The 6.5 might not be huge, but I'd bet the 223 is.

You need at least one 5.56 can anyways.

 

[JR1200W3]

The 6.5 might not be huge, but I'd bet the 223 is.

You need at least one 5.56 can anyways.

As long as all things being equal. Except that all the .223 cans are never made like .30 cal Ultra 7 and 9's. They are always made commensurate to their caliber; meaning they are made for ARs.

The quietest .223 can is not a .223 can.

 

[AMGtuned]

The quietest .223 can is not a .223 can.

It's not? You have my attention.

 

[JR1200W3]

It's not? You have my attention.

Not until TBAC makes a .338 Ultra with a .223 bore

 

[AMGtuned]

Not until TBAC makes a .338 Ultra with a .223 bore

Dude; Mr friggin TBac already said caliber specific bore lowers muzzle db by at least 3db. 3db is where the human ear starts to pick that change up.

It doesn't matter who makes it; it's a proven theory.

However: I am aware that length of can, length of barrel, and a number of other things, can lower db also. But I'm not putting a 10" can in place of a 7" can. Has to be a reasonable apples to apples.

 

[JR1200W3]

Dude; Mr friggin TBac already said caliber specific bore lowers muzzle db by at least 3db. 3db is where the human ear starts to pick that change up.

It doesn't matter who makes it; it's a proven theory.

However: I am aware that length of can, length of barrel, and a number of other things, can lower db also. But I'm not putting a 10" can in place of a 7" can. Has to be a reasonable apples to apples.

I'm not arguing that. I'm responding to Chevy Mans comment about buying a.223 can. I'm saying that there isn't much point to buying a .223 can for a bolt action application because all the .223 specific cans out there are designed for hard use AR applications and are louder and most of the time heavier than just using a .30 cal precision rifle suppressor on a .223 bolt gun.

Show me the quietest metered can on a .223 bolt gun. Bet it's not a .223 can. Nobody makes a .223 bored Magnus.

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

As long as all things being equal. Except that all the .223 cans are never made like .30 cal Ultra 7 and 9's. They are always made commensurate to their caliber; meaning they are made for ARs.

The quietest .223 can is not a .223 can.

Yeah that’s why I was looking at some 6.5 can options. I have no use for a 223 can for an AR, so I was weighing the versatility of the 30 to the extra suppression? of the 6.5 bore size on the 223 and x47. For only 3 decibels, I think I’m going to go with the Magnus. It’s the easy button for me and would give me piece of mind knowing it’s a TBAC.

 

[JR1200W3]

The Magnus is a hell of a can. Wish it was around before I bought an Ultra 9 and 338 Ultra. It may look funky on a light, small, skinny barrel rifle tho. Definitely going to want a carbon fiber sendero just for looks with a can that fat

 

[jmw]

6.5 ultra 9 on 22 creedmoor is unbelievably quiet. I have not tried my Magnus on 22 creed but the 6.5 ultra 9 on 22 creed seems to be quieter than my Magnus on 6.5 creed

 

[AMGtuned]

I'm not arguing that. I'm responding to Chevy Mans comment about buying a.223 can. I'm saying that there isn't much point to buying a .223 can for a bolt action application because all the .223 specific cans out there are designed for hard use AR applications and are louder and most of the time heavier than just using a .30 cal precision rifle suppressor on a .223 bolt gun.

Show me the quietest metered can on a .223 bolt gun. Bet it's not a .223 can. Nobody makes a .223 bored Magnus.

I get that there are a lot of hard use cans for AR. And I get that a lot of mfr's bore for 6mm and the like, to increase versatility.

Ops Inc., AEM, definitely have .22 bore stacks available. Pretty sure OCM5 is bored for 6mm, but I'd bet it's a solid performer compared to a .340-.375 bore.

 

[JR1200W3]

I get that there are a lot of hard use cans for AR. And I get that a lot of mfr's bore for 6mm and the like, to increase versatility.

Ops Inc., AEM, definitely have .22 bore stacks available. Pretty sure OCM5 is bored for 6mm, but I'd bet it's a solid performer compared to a .340-.375 bore.

Yeah, that's a good point. I wasn't even thinking about the AEM or the OCM when I was stating my thoughts on it. It would be interesting to meter one of those next to a Magnus or Enticer Lti. The AEM is the only precision oriented 223 can that I can think of though. It's a bit of an oddity and unfortunately not candidate for a bolt gun tho bc of its weird ass collar and mount.

 

[AMGtuned]

Yeah, that's a good point. I wasn't even thinking about the AEM or the OCM when I was stating my thoughts on it. It would be interesting to meter one of those next to a Magnus or Enticer Lti. The AEM is the only precision oriented 223 can that I can think of though. It's a bit of an oddity and unfortunately not candidate for a bolt gun tho bc of its weird ass collar and mount.

Ocm5 with OTB mount .

In all seriousness though; I totally get your point on precision cans, and duty use cans. And that unfortunately most, if not all, 5.56 cans are "duty" cans.

Bolt guns usually have longer barrels than duty rifles, and that in itself will change how the can performs. I would like to see a nice lightweight 223 option. Maybe I'll add that to my next build list

 

[375fan]

I use a TBAC Ultra 7 in .30 cal on my 223 bolt gun, it is very very quiet. For kicks one day at the range with friends I put my TBAC 338ULTRA can on the 223, overkill for sure, but it reduced sound even more.

 

[JR1200W3]

The one thing I've noticed about shooting over bored cans for caliber is you get a lower tone. And while it may be misleading, a more mellow tone sounds quieter. When you have an appropriately sized bore for your caliber, I find that the can sounds higher pitched and some people perceive that as louder.

 

[JR1200W3]

like to see a nice lightweight 223 option. Maybe I'll add that to my next build list

You mean rifle or suppressor? The problem I found with lightweight 223 rifles on custom actions is the magazine situation. I built a small lightweight 223 AI using the PT & G AR bottom metal. It did not feed well but being able to use a 20 round AR mag was kind of nice. Someone reliable needs to come out with an adjustable height AR magazine bottom metal for bolt guns.

 

[AMGtuned]

The one thing I've noticed about shooting over bored cans for caliber is you get a lower tone. And while it may be misleading, a more mellow tone sounds quieter. When you have an appropriately sized bore for your caliber, I find that the can sounds higher pitched and some people perceive that as louder.

I think can diameter plays a big role in tone also.

I was speaking to a lightweight .223 suppressor. The ones I've done have been "hard use"

 

[JR1200W3]

I think can diameter plays a big role in tone also.

I was speaking to a lightweight .223 suppressor. The ones I've done have been "hard use"

TBAC used to make a .223 Ultra. And then they discontinued it. I wonder if they didn't think there was enough difference between that and an ultra 7 in suppression to warrant it

 

[FuhQ]

Getting close to purchasing a dedicated can for a new build, this one will be for a lighter weight crossover rifle for general use, shooting 500 and in, and hunting. Primary goal is for max suppression, secondary goal is light weight. Parts: TL3, HNT26, Bartlein 6.5x47 and 223 barrels, all parts in hand or on order through SPR.

I have four centerfire cans, all 30 caliber (2 TBAC, 2 KGM), but am wondering if getting a 6.5 can would make an appreciable difference in suppressing the x47 and the 223.

Looking at the OCL Hydrogen L in 6.5 or possibly the DD Enticer L-Ti with removable end caps, vs the Magnus. I do like the weight, size, and cost savings of the first two. I have no experience with removable end caps or smaller bore cans.

If bore diameter doesn’t make much difference in practical sound suppression, then I will just stick with another 30 caliber can, but will go to a 6.5 bore if there’s a noticeable difference, especially with the 223.

It does make a difference. I know for a fact having tested my Hydrogen-S 7.62, Hydrogen-S 6.5mm, and Hydrogen-L 7.62 all side-by-side. The Hydrogen-S 6.5mm is as quiet on a .260 Rem, as the Hydrogen-L 7.62. So, 2" shorter can with 4 less baffles, and it produces roughly the same DB level as the larger can with a larger bore. It might not be a huge difference, but it is noticeable to the human ear. The Hydrogen-L 6.5mm would be even quieter.

 

[AMGtuned]

TBAC used to make a .223 Ultra. And then they discontinued it. I wonder if they didn't think there was enough difference between that and an ultra 7 in suppression to warrant it

You can shoot 6 and 6.5 through an Ultra 7 though, and those are very popular rounds.

 

[RayDBonz]

Full stack cal specific gives about 3 dB, talking .30 cal and less

And remember, the dB scale is logarithmic. That means a 3dB difference is equal to double (or half) the sound pressure level.
In English - a 3dB reduction in sound pressure level is half as loud.

 

[Zak Smith]

Dude; Mr friggin TBac already said caliber specific bore lowers muzzle db by at least 3db. 3db is where the human ear starts to pick that change up.

It doesn't matter who makes it; it's a proven theory.

3 dB is best case in our testing of our types of stacks, not the "at least." Sometimes there is no difference. That's why we dropped the 223 Ultra 7, the 6.5mm version suppressed exactly the same on 223 bolt guns as the .223 version during gen2 testing.

It does kind of matter who makes it-- I did not say any 6.5 can (or any 6.5 can of similar size) is 3 dB quieter than a .30 can. Everything else the same, you might get 3 dB. You might not see a change at all.

 

[JR1200W3]

3 dB is best case in our testing of our types of stacks, not the "at least." Sometimes there is no difference. That's why we dropped the 223 Ultra 7, the 6.5mm version suppressed exactly the same on 223 bolt guns as the .223 version during gen2 testing.

It does kind of matter who makes it-- I did not say any 6.5 can (or any 6.5 can of similar size) is 3 dB quieter than a .30 can. Everything else the same, you might get 3 dB. You might not see a change at all.

What's the quietest can for a bolt action .223 that you know of?

 

[Zak Smith]

We don't do exhaustive testing on 223 bolt guns because it isn't a "standard platform" even though it is somewhat popular. The quietest of our cans on it will be the 338 Ultra (Gen2). I'd have to dig up numbers.

 

[AMGtuned]

3 dB is best case in our testing of our types of stacks, not the "at least." Sometimes there is no difference. That's why we dropped the 223 Ultra 7, the 6.5mm version suppressed exactly the same on 223 bolt guns as the .223 version during gen2 testing.

It does kind of matter who makes it-- I did not say any 6.5 can (or any 6.5 can of similar size) is 3 dB quieter than a .30 can. Everything else the same, you might get 3 dB. You might not see a change at all.

Thanks for your explanation.

In the years I have been building F1 cans; caliber specific bores have been used, specifically for reduction. But also because F4 mfr's can try multiple configurations before release, whereas F1 builder get 1 chance or a paid recore.

Definitely wasn't trying to put words in your mouth; but I do agree with the reduction, and in most cases I have seen personally, it had been beneficial.
cone type/style, tube size, spacing, coaxial, etc., will all play a role. At the end of the day, no can is equal. The fun is in finding what works for the current application.

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

The Magnus is a hell of a can. Wish it was around before I bought an Ultra 9 and 338 Ultra. It may look funky on a light, small, skinny barrel rifle tho. Definitely going to want a carbon fiber sendero just for looks with a can that fat

The 223 barrel is a Bartlein SS M24 at 18” and the x47 barrel is an M24-ish Bartlein brown carbon fiber at 20”, so a 1.8” diameter can should balance out nicely.

Another concern of mine is first round pop while hunting. I already have a little ringing in my left ear so I’m trying to avoid any additional hearing damage going forward. So I am prioritizing suppression with this next can. Wish i could hear what 3 decibels quieter sounds like.

 

[hlee]

Wish i could hear what 3 decibels quieter sounds like.

An online calculator I found says 140 dB converts to 200 pascals of sound pressure. 137 dB equates to 141 pascal. In this context, a 3 dB reduction equates to a 29% reduction in sound pressure.

A different source I found a while ago said that the human ear translates a 10 dB increase in sound as a 4x increase in volume.

Mathematically, 3 dB is nothing to sneeze at.

But, of course, there is the human factor. How is your hearing now? A guy that spent 20 years in an artillery division may be less sensitive to a 3 dB change than a professional sound engineer.

 

[JR1200W3]

Another concern of mine is first round pop while hunting. I already have a little ringing in my left ear so I’m trying to avoid any additional hearing damage going forward. So I am prioritizing suppression with this next can. Wish i could hear what 3 decibels quieter sounds like.

It's going to be real hard to suppress any more than the Magnus. If that won't do it for you I don't know what to say. There's a certain amount of risk we assume when we choose to participate in some activities.

 

[Guns&WhiteWater]

It's going to be real hard to suppress any more than the Magnus. If that won't do it for you I don't know what to say. There's a certain amount of risk we assume when we choose to participate in some activities.

Yep, risk is inherent in most of my hobbies, shooting probably the least of them. Just trying to make an educated decision and maximize my enjoyment. I’m pretty much set on the Magnus. Appreciate all your help.

 

[BurtG]

Show me the quietest metered can on a .223 bolt gun. Bet it's not a .223 can. Nobody makes a .223 bored Magnus.

Me also

Also quietest on 16” ar.

 

[Tritiumdials]

I'd also be curious if caliber-specific versus overbore would make a difference in recoil impulse on a controlled test with a bolt action. Test would preferably be apples to apples, like a OCL Hydrogen L 6.5 compared to the 762 version, or TBAC Ultra 9 6.5 vs 762, etc. What would that be like using a 6mm variant and 6.5 variant, as those are popular in PRS.

 

[JR1200W3]

I'd also be curious if caliber-specific versus overbore would make a difference in recoil impulse on a controlled test with a bolt action. Test would preferably be apples to apples, like a OCL Hydrogen L 6.5 compared to the 762 version, or TBAC Ultra 9 6.5 vs 762, etc. What would that be like using a 6mm variant and 6.5 variant, as those are popular in PRS.

It is probably a reasonable theory to think that a tighter bore on a can creates more gas restriction which creates more back pressure which increases recoil a smidge.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

People get way too hung up on a couple decibels. The quality of the can, weight, mounting system, and blow back are far bigger priorities than a minor difference in noise level that you’ll never notice.

I have cans with different bore sizes and I wish every one except 1 was 30 cal and the one that’s not 30 cal was a 338-350 bore.

 

[BurtG]

Yeah, that's a good point. I wasn't even thinking about the AEM or the OCM when I was stating my thoughts on it. It would be interesting to meter one of those next to a Magnus or Enticer Lti. The AEM is the only precision oriented 223 can that I can think of though. It's a bit of an oddity and unfortunately not candidate for a bolt gun tho bc of its weird ass collar and mount.

Easy to spec when getting a barrel made

 

[JR1200W3]

Easy to spec when getting a barrel made

View attachment 8285419

 

[JR1200W3]

I'm just messing with you Burt. That's a cool setup. I bet it's pretty quiet too. I'm sure if I already owned an AEM or OCM I would not be able to resist putting it on a bolt action. But no way would I go out and buy one for a bolt action suppressor and then have a bunch of barrels machined to fit it.

 

[Cascade Hemi]

View attachment 8285422

Can you milk me Greg?

 

[BurtG]

I'm just messing with you Burt. That's a cool setup. I bet it's pretty quiet too. I'm sure if I already owned an AEM or OCM I would not be able to resist putting it on a bolt action. But no way would I go out and buy one for a bolt action suppressor and then have a bunch of barrels machined to fit it.

338 ultra is quiet Af on a 223 also

I’m a sound whore Il deal with a lot for a less db

 

[FuhQ]

I'd also be curious if caliber-specific versus overbore would make a difference in recoil impulse on a controlled test with a bolt action. Test would preferably be apples to apples, like a OCL Hydrogen L 6.5 compared to the 762 version, or TBAC Ultra 9 6.5 vs 762, etc. What would that be like using a 6mm variant and 6.5 variant, as those are popular in PRS.

Testing my Hydrogen-S 7.62 vs Hydrogen-S 6.5mm versions back to back on the same rifles, I noticed nothing that stood out to me in recoil reduction. I’m sure if it does, it’s so small that you’ll never physically feel the difference.

 

[hlee]

Testing my Hydrogen-S 7.62 vs Hydrogen-S 6.5mm versions back to back on the same rifles, I noticed nothing that stood out to me in recoil reduction. I’m sure if it does, it’s so small that you’ll never physically feel the difference.

I bet if you out a 5.56 cal suppressor on that rifle, you'll feel a recoil difference.

 

[FuhQ]

I bet if you out a 5.56 cal suppressor on that rifle, you'll feel a recoil difference.

Well no shit… At least for 1 shot, right?