Do common aftermarket upgrades reduce reliability?

[ut755ln]

The thread title suggest that the most important aspect of an AR is reliability (to me it is) so I was wondering what kind of upgrades can you make that enhance the rifle as opposed to upgrades that you make that are questionable?

I will start with an adjustable gas block or an adjustable bolt carrier group. The benefit is that they make the gun shoot softer. To me that was never much of an issue because it is a .22 caliber bullet and even the roughest AR doesn't really kick. The negatives, you tune the gun to a specific ammo. If you change ammo you have to redial it in. It is another system or failure point for your rifle that is not present in the base design.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

The negatives, you tune the gun to a specific ammo. If you change ammo you have to redial it in. It is another system or failure point for your rifle that is not present in the base design.

You ever heard of non adjustable gas guns that won't cycle Wolf? Or rip rims off with hot ammo? It's the same situation. Any system optimized for one thing will be less than optimal for another thing. I wouldn't call that a failure point. Every system has a window of operation and it's just as easy to get outside of that window with a fixed gas block.

 

[Desert_Racer]

The keyword here is “system.” Your AR is a system, but everyone cobbles them together with parts from a bunch of different manufacturers, with an expectation that it will run perfect with every type of ammo, and a suppressor, and never have problems. It doesn’t really work that way, although most times it will work “good enough.” That is, until you fall outside that window TonyTheTiger mentioned.

Things like gas port size, buffer weight, etc, and how those things interact with each other, play a vital role in reliability (assuming all the parts are in spec and of good quality). Then you throw ammo
in the mix. There’s a lot of factors to think about.

Adjustable gas blocks are great, but in my opinion, are a bandaid fix to an oversized gas port. I have changed my opinion on them recently, and would rather have my gas port correctly sized from the manufacturer, so I don’t have to run another part that can fail on me (I have had adjustable gas blocks fail in the past). I guess you can consider them a reliability enhancement if your gun or barrel you chose is set up to cycle PMC reliably (IE, it probably has a massive gas port), but starts having issues when you run MK262 with a can. Ideally, you know what ammo you are going to run through the gun and what your intended use is, before you start piecing it together or choose a complete one to buy. In my opinion, that’s the most reliability-enhancing thing you can do, versus throwing parts at a problem that could have been avoided in the first place. I like my guns to be slightly overgassed, so they can still run when they’re dirty.

 

[Rerun7]

The above is correct. I’d only add that like most things, the answer to your question is “it depends”.

There are some parts that you can swap easily and interchange easily like a standard bolt or barrel from a quality manufacturer.

Once you start trying to make your gun “softer” shooting by adjustable gas’s blocks, tuned buffer springs, low mass bolts, buffer weights, triggers, etc then you have to know more of what you are doing and they may not work well in all circumstances.

If you want reliable then stick with basic quality parts and put them together according to spec.

If you want a Gucci race gun for competition, etc then start mixing/matching until you find the perfect combination for your purposes.

Also, you can achieve some level of what you are after by not going into certain parts. For example, if you want “softer” shooting then get a mid length gas system and put a brake on it. No reliability concerns and it shoots way different than a carbine with an A2.

 

[308pirate]

The thread title suggest that the most important aspect of an AR is reliability (to me it is) so I was wondering what kind of upgrades can you make that enhance the rifle as opposed to upgrades that you make that are questionable?

I will start with an adjustable gas block or an adjustable bolt carrier group. The benefit is that they make the gun shoot softer. To me that was never much of an issue because it is a .22 caliber bullet and even the roughest AR doesn't really kick. The negatives, you tune the gun to a specific ammo. If you change ammo you have to redial it in. It is another system or failure point for your rifle that is not present in the base design.

Yes

No

Maybe

 

[JMcQ]

I have many AR’s for different purposes and many have adjustable gas etc while being reliable.
If I were to have to chose one that I took to battle? Well my hit the fan rifle is a straight forward FN barrel mid gas with pinned gas block h2 buffer etc. Light is a surefire scout with just a tail cap switch on my thumb. KISS.
It will eat any ammo.

 

[Milf Dots]

The more shit you throw against the wall, the less it looks like a Michelangelo.

 

[Mountain425]

No way !

 

[2grim4U]

"Upgrades" are what the US Army tried in the early 1960's that ended up in complete and absolute failure...and 60 years later, the US Army is still trying do "upgrades" (the secret government code is "Product Improvement"), and each change the Army has made has created one or more new problems.

The original Armalite AR-15/M-16 as Stoner designed it had a lot of forethought and refinement put into it. Stoner was unencumbred by government buracracy and did not have to go through extensive review processes if there was a problem discovered. The problems were identified, a solution crafted, and the design was tested. It was a simple and efficient process without the Army involved. It was designed as a system; cartridge, propellant, projectile, and rifle. And it worked pretty damn good.

The original design specs were promptly thrown out the window once the Army got their paws on it. Virtually all of the problems that the Army experienced with the AR in Vietnam were brought on by changes the Army demanded, but did not understand any of the consequences for each of the changes made. Of course, everyone knows the problems created when the Army demanded that the powder for the M193 cartridge be changed from IMR type to ball propellant. This was done solely for economic reasons because the Army wanted to use the same powder that was being used in the 7.62N (.308 Win) M80 Ball ammo. Other "upgrades" were to do away with the dry film lubricant on the inside of the upper receiver, and eliminate chrome plating of the barrel bore and chamber. The Army thought these were unnecessary expenses.

Almost 60 years later, we have the POS M4 and M855A1 ammo. And through agony, grief, and many design changes, this combination has been massaged enough to make it just adequate. And now it's going to be replaced with the M5 and a new 6.8mm cartridge.

There is no such thing as "upgrades". You can only make changes. Most setting off a chain of events that require additional changes. And if you're lucky, you reach a point where the changes stop causing additional problems.

 

[mosin46]

valmet,gallil,AK? the things i have put on mine are non " shooting" parts-extend mag release,BAD,BUIS and an optic.

 

[mosin46]

fair points. do wonder why you say a pro would not want any of the above. AK at least has been around awhile with some success esp in outfits with limited logistics tails. the history of the m16 as above is very well attested to and documented. where i shoot a bunch of people run their ARs hard,even with steel. problems are indeed fewer than one is led to believe. AK problems,other than the poor accuracy they are know for are zero. bolt guns? good points. carlos hatchcock did pretty well with essentially a civilian mdl 70,"outdated 30/06 and redfield scope. simo hayha did real well with a mosin and iron sights (and a suomi). seems field skills are as important to a sniper or designated marksman as shooting ability but i have no experience there.

 

[Desert_Racer]

Is this the point where this thread comes off the rails?

Someone turn on the bat signal and get @bigjake83 @DeathBeforeDismount @TheGerman in here.

 

[mosin46]

whether the average civilian AR is more or less accurate than the M4,i don't know. but anything to be said about that is simply anecdotal either way. i can say that the average civilian AR that i have seen is more accurate than the average AKM..say 3 MOA +/- vs 4-5. ammo & skill dependent as is always the case with anything. have you seen significant failure to function in the AK vs M4?

 

[mosin46]

SSE ? don't think that is a + thing?

 

[brianf]

…I’m looking too

Carry on

 

[bigjake83]

Is this the point where this thread comes off the rails?

Someone turn on the bat signal and get @bigjake83 @DeathBeforeDismount @TheGerman in here.

There's really nothing worth debating in this thread, yourself and Tony have pretty much touched on any valid points that need to be made.

It's all common sense...well maybe common to some people, but in the end it's up to the end user to choose what's important to them because at some point there's going to be a give and take.

 

[bigjake83]

Speaking of aftermarket upgrades, What did you ever figure out with your proof CF 6.5Creed barrel? Still experiencing thermal drift?

I haven't had time to repeat the test, next time I will have heat guards in place to eliminate Barrel mirage.

I did however get a phone call from Compass Lake, they just got a shipment of barrels from Bartlein so I will have a Heavy Contour SS barrel in the next 5 weeks or so to directly compare to.

 

[bigjake83]

What are you comparing? Proof vs Bartlein? Or steel vs cf?

CF vs SS

 

[ut755ln]

SOF dudes are deployed worldwide with a Glock 19. Truly in harm's way. The only upgrade being steel sights

Naval Land Warfare changes out the spring cups also .

 

[mosin46]

glock post is timely. i have a 19 G5. my gunsmith,a big time glock guy,advises me to make no changes in the stock trigger. guess the point here would be the same? i do struggle with the creepy trigger. gun has around 500r on it so far.

 

[Rerun7]

Try putting in a (-) connector. Super cheap swap that makes the trigger a little better and doesn’t mess up reliability. I changed mine a couple thousand rounds ago with no issues.

 

[mosin46]

like this?

GS Double Diamond 3.5 Pound Connector for Glock | Best Glock Accessories | GlockStore.com

The GS Double Diamond 3.5 Pound Connector helps you shoot faster and more accurately. Find your best Glock accessories at GlockStore.com

www.glockstore.com

also,cant see how a better guide rod would hurt. but very expensive at glock store anyway

 

[striped1]

like this?

GS Double Diamond 3.5 Pound Connector for Glock | Best Glock Accessories | GlockStore.com

The GS Double Diamond 3.5 Pound Connector helps you shoot faster and more accurately. Find your best Glock accessories at GlockStore.com

www.glockstore.com

also,cant see how a better guide rod would hurt. but very expensive at glock store anyway

Why not just drop a g34 trigger group into it? it becomes a pretty good to decent 3.5#, reliable
trigger.

 

[acudaowner]

if they negativly affected a gun anything over a week or two old you would have heard about it online they do about anything else so . if you do decide to turn your ar into some space ship of mixed matched parts please post pics . Best of luck with which ever parts you decide to get or not get . If you build this someone will get a laugh out of it .

 

[ut755ln]

glock post is timely. i have a 19 G5. my gunsmith,a big time glock guy,advises me to make no changes in the stock trigger. guess the point here would be the same? i do struggle with the creepy trigger. gun has around 500r on it so far.

I have a g34 and like that trigger for a striker fired. The gunsmith I use says that the new Timney triggers are far and away his favorite.

 

[T-dog]

There's no way a professional soldier wants to carry or use any of those.

The internet is where all the problems with the M4 exist. In SOF we shoot the shit out of them and conduct a wide variety of operations with the gun. We train constantly and shoot more than civilians can possibly afford. All the "issues" exist on forum boards, not on the ranges and gunboxes I frequent.

It's like AI's. "Th best military sniper rifle in the world". Meanwhile the M24 existed as a trusted and reliable platform for two decades. And it wasn't much more than a simple barreled R700 action bolted into a synthetic stock. But you talk to someone on SH if it isn't an AI it isn't worth a shit.

Also similar are all the self defense people. Talking about the latest pistol in the context of "... would I trust my life to it?". Like, what do you mean? Are you truly in danger? Do you go in harm's way? Would you actually have to trust your life to this pistol as you obesely walk through Walmart? Meanwhile, SOF dudes are deployed worldwide with a Glock 19. Truly in harm's way. The only upgrade being steel sights.

Concealed carry nerds are always going to endlessly debate Uber reliability. Fudds are always going to criticize the M4 in favor of some obscure antique mule gun. And SH is always going to tell some newb that has to drive 3 hours to get to his local range that maxes out at 600yds to buy an AI because it's "the best". You know, buy once, cry once.

 

[rottenruger]

The thread title suggest that the most important aspect of an AR is reliability (to me it is) so I was wondering what kind of upgrades can you make that enhance the rifle as opposed to upgrades that you make that are questionable?

I will start with an adjustable gas block or an adjustable bolt carrier group. The benefit is that they make the gun shoot softer. To me that was never much of an issue because it is a .22 caliber bullet and even the roughest AR doesn't really kick. The negatives, you tune the gun to a specific ammo. If you change ammo you have to redial it in. It is another system or failure point for your rifle that is not present in the base design.

For some of the novices reading this (like me), DON'T forget the basics: GOOD mounted flashlight, Red Dot or equivalent optic, sling.