DO NOT BUY these items...

96C

96C

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
    • Aug 9, 2007
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    2,170
    Aust
    #1
    A good mate of mine sent me an email not long ago, that pissed me off.

    One of the best things about this community as a whole is that we have a niche environment that not many understand, full of talented and skilled craftsmen, supported by great vendors... In a way it's our duty to return the favour and support them because they look after us. In this case I'm talking about TAB, Triad and Red Tac Gear in no particular order.


    <span style="font-weight: bold">Down to business:</span>
    Every now and then, a company will put time and effort into an idea and with some refinement churn out a really great product that will last a long time, serves it's purpose well and doesn't cost a fortune... Then some arsehole will stroll in, pick it up, send it offshore and get copies made up and flog them off at basement prices to the uneducated with no regard for the genuine honest blokes that originally came up with the idea.

    <span style="font-weight: bold">Have a look at these three items:</span>
    * RED TAC GEAR Rear Bag - http://www.redtacgear.com/
    * TAB Gear Rear Bag - https://www.riflesonly.com/pro-shop/tactical-gear/tab-rear-bag.html
    * Triad Tactical - Tapered Rear Bag - http://www.triadtactical.com/Triad-Tapered-Rear-Bag.html

    They say "Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery"... But that's not the point.


    <span style="font-weight: bold">Now have a look at this:</span>
    http://www.midwayusa.com/find?userSearchQuery=tacbag


    <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">I'm asking you to NOT support this company by purchasing any of the rear bags on their website</span></span>, there is a clear disrespect for the working-man.


    That is all.
    J


    BUY THE REAL PRODUCT ONCE....
    TriadBagsml-1.jpg

    (triad tactical - wedge).
     
    #2
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    Sweet Midways stuff is half the price, lol
    I do see what you are talking about. I still think people will know quality when buying from the other brands and midway will sell more to the people who don't care. I don't know if this will steal from the others but it sure can't help.
     
    #3
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    96C - well said, mate!

    I'm a firm believer in the "buy once, cry once" mantra.

    There are plenty of great vendors here with fantastic products. No need to accept copies, poor vendors or crappy CS!!

    Also....that is a fantastic paint job on your AX!!!
     
    #8
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good. Another excuse not to support Midway.
    I'm in!
    </div></div>

    10 bucks for the bag....89 for shipping...
     
    #10
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Zebra308</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So is Midway going to become like Wal-Marts now? Trying to kill the small town business man? </div></div>

    Sure as hell looks like it, huh?


    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good. Another excuse not to support Midway.
    I'm in!
    </div></div>

    <span style="font-weight: bold">10 bucks for the bag....89 for shipping...</span></div></div>

    That's no shit right there!
     
    #12
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: M.45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bet they are made in china.</div></div>


    That would likely be a safe bet.
     
    #13
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    Standard big box store kind of stuff.

    If you are an entrepreneur you had better get familiar with patents or these guys will rip you off.

    Some of you may think, "well if they can do it cheaper then that is just business."

    The problem with that line of thinking is that you loose the innovation the small guys bring to the fight. Midway didnt come up with the IDEA that solves a need you have like the smaller retailers did. If we allow Midway or other big retailers to drive the little guys out of business then you are going to loose the innovation we need to continue solving problems and create progress in the art of precision shooting.

    Midway should have bought the product from the smaller retailers, or licensed it.
     
    #14
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I still think people will know quality when buying from the other brands and midway will sell more to the people who don't care. </div></div>

    Much said there. Many, many folks will buy those items never knowing any difference. I (and most of us) will still buy the original gear.
     
    #15
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYpatriot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The problem with that line of thinking is that you loose the innovation the small guys bring to the fight. Midway didnt come up with the IDEA that solves a need you have like the smaller retailers did. If we allow Midway or other big retailers to drive the little guys out of business then you are going to loose the innovation we need to continue solving problems and create progress in the art of precision shooting.</div></div>

    Well said.

    I'm not a fan of Midway and try to buy from the small businesses whenever I can.
     
    #17
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    So, what about when you don't like the vendor? Do you still by from them to "Support" them just because it was their idea?
     
    #18
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    I made a similar comment the other day in the wedge topic. They even ripped off triads description as their description. I am all for saving a buck or two but not if it comes comes at a good company's expense. Triad did the R&D (research and development). While midway did its own R&D (ripoff and duplicate)
     
    #20
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So, what about when you don't like the vendor? Do you still by from them to "Support" them just because it was their idea? </div></div>
    No just don't buy it. Its better to support a vendor than a rip off.
     
    #21
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FUCK Midway! It'll never be in stock anyway. </div></div>Because these will sell. F'd up on Midways part. Hate to see good people, trying to make a way for themselves and provide for their family get screwed like that.
     
    #22
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    I think as shooters we need to stand together and not support this crap. There are some great people who worked hard at coming up with the great items and now to get ripped off by some china copy because Midway thought it was ok. Well I can honestly say I am done with midway after this point.
     
    #23
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    I'm not trying to defend Midway or anything. I've got a couple red tac rear bags and they make a damn fine product. And while Midway's tactical bag bears an uncanny resemblance to Red Tac's; a polystyrene bead filled bag isn't exactly cutting edge innovation. I can remember seeing sand or bean filled wedges in other catalogs years ago. Don't know who had the idea first, but I suspect it's been around a long time.

    It's one thing when they rip off a domestic made reticle, or stock, or something that took significant R&D. But a sand sock? Good luck getting a defendable patent for that.

    That said, if I feel the need for another rear bag, I'll likely get another Red Tac. It's good stuff.
     
    #25
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: netranger6</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good. Another excuse not to support Midway.
    I'm in!
    </div></div>

    10 bucks for the bag....89 for shipping... </div></div>

    Yup. Sure seems that way. Especially on "sale" items.
     
    #27
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Natty Bumpo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not trying to defend Midway or anything. I've got a couple red tac rear bags and they make a damn fine product. And while Midway's tactical bag bears an uncanny resemblance to Red Tac's; a polystyrene bead filled bag isn't exactly cutting edge innovation. I can remember seeing sand or bean filled wedges in other catalogs years ago. Don't know who had the idea first, but I suspect it's been around a long time.

    It's one thing when they rip off a domestic made reticle, or stock, or something that took significant R&D. But a sand sock? Good luck getting a defendable patent for that.

    That said, if I feel the need for another rear bag, I'll likely get another Red Tac. It's good stuff. </div></div>

    You don't think there is R&D for a rear bag? There is R&D done even in a rear bag and patterns made and there are very specific things about all three of those bags that make them different. Natty Bumpo, you have no idea what you are talking about. As for the patent, that is a moot point. None of them have patents that I know of.

    The point of this is there are three small companies that did the leg work, developed products only to have a larger company come in and mass produce an idea that was not theirs. It may not be illegal but it sure as hell is unethical.

    Looking at my Discover Card 2011 statement I spent almost $2k at Midway last year. A drop in the bucket for them but that is one less drop they will see in 2012. The only way this stuff stops is if people like us commit to sending emails, making phone calls and stop using a company.

    In the end it may not work but it has been my experience that enough legitimate bitching can produce results. I have obtain results by calling and emailing enough people at Streamlight to gain positive results with a different issue.
     
    #30
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    On that same note: Don't buy Chevy, Dodge, Honda, Ford, Remington, S&W, DPMS, etc.. I can't believe the aforementioned (and countless other examples) would dare to copy somebody else's ideas and market them. Damn you capitalist Midway!
     
    #32
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    I just got off the phone with a Midway representative.

    The bags are made overseas.

    When I told the guy that three small, USA founded businesses were having money taken out of their pockets by Midway stealing our designs and having them made overseas his response was that, sure my product is better built and is a higher quality but they're reaching out to a customer base that is more concerned about price rather than the highest quality they can get.

    My reply was that that line carried no weight at all. They carry the Badger Bone rear bag and sell it for more than Marty does. They certainly never contacted me about liking the design of my bag and wanting to carry it to support a small USA made business and what kind of a deal could they have if they bought in quantity from us. I'm pretty sure that they didn't contact either Stu at Red Tac Gear or Triad either.

    I told him that I felt confident that if the vast majority of Midway customers had the choice to buy a rear bag made in China for $10.00 or a bag that was made in the US by a small business with all American made products and labor for $20.00 most would chose the USA made bag. Not all, but most would, given the choice.

    No, my bags are not patented, like the guy asked. I told him there's a difference between legal and right. Anyone who says "well you should have patented your product" has no idea how much a patent costs or how much it costs to defend it either. I have done quite a bit of R&D in our bags. I know they look pretty simple and that's the point, to refine it down until theres nothing else to take away yet it does a good job for what it's designed for. We even went through about 20 different kinds of filler until we found exactly what worked the best for us.

    I haven't seen Midway making any donations to matches. All they're doing is supporting some factory over seas who pay pennies on the dollar for labor. Everything we make is made with American labor. We use American made supplies, which support the US economy. We make donations of our products to matches all over the country, we give equipment to law enforcement officers, and military personnel. We're available every day of the week in case a customer has a question or needs help. It's not just us that do all of this, but Stu at Red Tac, and Steve at Triad and lots of other small companies who go out of our way to provide a superior product and customer service.

    No Natty, a rear bag isn't cutting edge, and not really a big deal, except to Red Tac Gear, TAB GEAR, or Triad Tactical. It's pretty serious to us. Just where do we draw the line? Do you think it's a coincidence that all three companies have their designs show up at the same time? I don't think so at all. The bean counters at Midway saw some small businesses who have developed a following and wanted to take some of their business away from them.
     
    #33
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    I have been to Tony's shop and own quite a bit of his gear, I will continue to buy from him because of his quality and service. I think its chicken shit the way corporate America trys to kill the little man.
     
    #35
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't think there is R&D for a rear bag? There is R&D done even in a rear bag and patterns made and there are very specific things about all three of those bags that make them different. Natty Bumpo, you have no idea what you are talking about.</div></div>
    I'm not saying there wasn't any planning or development behind making their bags. My mother used to sew for a living. On occasion I asked her to make things for me and she developed the cutting pattern on her own and did great work. But choosing a fabric and developing a cutting template for a cylinder doesn't involve the kind of R&D and engineering needed for say, a micro processor, or new synthetic fiber, or a car seat that adjusts itself to the drivers preferred settings.

    If you make something that's successful and easily copied, it will be copied. Condor and Voodoo Tactical have been successful using this model. Marlin's pro-fire adjustable trigger looks a lot like Savage's accutrigger to me. Nosler's E-tip seems awfully similar to Hornady's GMX bullet, and both seem to have "borrowed" from Barnes' X-bullet.

    Allow me to reiterate: I'm not defending Midway or badmouthing Red Tac. I like their products and wish Red Tac continued success. Maybe the competitiion will encourage them to innovate further to separate themselves from the rest of the pack.
     
    #36
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    Do you think it's a coincidence that all three companies have their designs show up at the same time? I don't think so at all. The bean counters at Midway saw some small businesses who have developed a following and wanted to take some of their business away from them.



    <span style="font-weight: bold">You nailed that one !!!</span>
     
    #40
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    Haven't bought from Midway in years because of the outrageous shipping prices. Now more then ever, I will stay away from them.... and that's the way it is.
     
    #41
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.... and that's the way it is. </div></div>

    I was waiting for a few more of those. They have to incorporate it into EVERY Ad
    crazy.gif
     
    #42
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mtscott</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is Midway turning into the Walmart of the shooting world? </div></div>

    You mean it wasn't to start out with?
     
    #43
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    I remember when Stu at Red Tac first started making his bags . Mike Miller had made a rear bag of some sort and he took the time to contact him and make sure he wasn't stomping on his dick by making his own stuff and selling it . He had the common decency which should be afforded to the people who innovate and create . Midway however just likes to build there business off the blood sweat and tears off of those people . That is the difference between being a businessman and a blood sucking corporation who uses excuses like "We aren't doing anything illegal." to justify doing things that they know are morally repugnant . I haven't bought anything from Midway USA in years and I will continue using their sale ad to start the fire in my wood stove . F#$% Midway .
     
    #45
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    Stu has donated to many Matches that's how I was introduced to his products I won a rear bag. I immediately ordered more bags just to say thanks!
    The red tac big rear bag is absolutely great. I use it all the time . It's lasted 6 years now and still looks new. Since then I've sent him customers and he always takes care of them. My boy is starting into long range this year and he will be getting a set of red tac bags. And yes most people I know will buy USA even if its more expensive, they get it, it's beginning to sink in as more jobs are lost overseas.
    I wouldn't buy bags from midway if they were free. I always buy made in USA when products exist.
    Count me in on the bagboycot and I'll spread the word.
     
    #46
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Broker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It's called Capitalism... </div></div>
    Not in China where midways bags are made it's called Socialism, Communism, and Slave Labor
     
    #47
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    So if I made my own rear bags in my home with quality materials and sold them fairly cheep, would that mean I would be reading a post on here to to buy my product? Or is it about midways's product from overseas and not American made?
     
    #48
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    I think there are two sides to the coin and I understand where Natty is coming from. I also understand the frustration from small companies that get pinched as a result. You guys bust your balls to make a good quality product and others try to steal from you. As a result the small companies need to get out there to the community they target and make sure people understand the differences that make their product a better one than the company that is stealing it. Try to cut out the business from the company trying to steal your business. Go out there and try to make sure that before people may purchase from Midway they stumble upon your product. I'm sure that a person who knew of both products, 8/9 times out of 10 would prefer the small company who kept it all American made and of better quality. Not saying it is easy but this is the world we live in and this is how it is and will be. Whether it be Midway or some other shop across the country or continent.

    If you have a company that makes something and noone else can make a product similar, then what you have done is created a monopoly on said product. Doesn't exactly promote further innovation and price competition to get the best product at the best price.

    Let me ask you something. The last time you bought medicine or pain relievers for a headache which brand did you buy? Did you buy the name brand or did you buy CVS or Walgreens brand to save a few bucks?

    Like Natty it's not that I am condoning Midway. If I bought a rear bag (I wouldn't becuase I prefer to make my own or rather I give dimensions to my wife and have her sew it for me lol), I would buy TRIADS, or Red Tac etc becuase to me they are different products. One is cheaper becuase it is made overseas (I try to buy as much as I can domestic) and with inferior products.

    I also think it helps to provide incentive for a company to further develop their product to make it even better than other companies that are trying to mimic them. It also incentifies them to become more streamlined and cost effective as a business so as to hopefully cut costs so they can compete. Think of the US Gov't running AmTrak or the Postal Service. Those could be streamlined and run so much better (like not losing money) but they haven't cared to do anything about it, becuase they are the government and they will just print more money. Where is the incentive?

    Also maybe I am wrong but I thought Midway's bags were about the same cost but they just happened to be on sale, is that correct? I mean if that is the case then it's even more incentive to go with the small shops becuase they are providing a better quality product, made here in the US and at a similar costs.

    Personally I think we need to be more concerned with trying to get other people to try to purchase more products made here in the US than anything. This is coming from a guy that has been working on building a business with his wife and had options to get raw material overseas or domestically....of course I went with domestic and the higher costs, which I will advertise as being American made.

    So in sum let Midway sell them, it is their perogative but like this post let's just make sure people understand all their options before purchasing them and hopefully steering them to a better product. In the end the better product at a good price will win out. So in that end I will applaud the thread in pointing it out, though most people I think it this forum would buy from those small companies mentioned over Midway anyways.
     
    #49
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kortik</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dangedan87</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So if I made my own rear bags in my home with quality materials and sold them fairly cheep, would that mean I would be reading a post on here to to buy my product? Or is it about midways's product from overseas and not American made? </div></div> </div></div>

    In this situation, if Midway does duplicate and sell somebody's else designs, it is a serious issue, no matter if the product is made in the U.S. or in China.

     
    #50
    Re: DO NOT BUY these items...

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shoot4fun</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good. Another excuse not to support Midway.
    I'm in!
    </div></div>

    Yep, Midway is nothing like they were when they started years ago.
     
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