Rifle Scopes Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

glockophile

glockophile

Private
Minuteman
Nov 8, 2009
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Underground bunker! Indiana
#1
I was checking out the Remington Law Enforcement website and I saw that the 700p TWS package includes a Leupold with duplex reticle and the M24 package includes a Leupold with mil dot reticle.
On a side note I have a Leupold Mark IV with duplex reticle and I want to know what would be the best system for ranging targets at unknown distances. Thank You
 
#2
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

Check out the ret used in the movie Sniper... That ranges stuff for you...

Seriously, the best system to range targets at unknown distances is a laser rangefinder. After that, a mil system ret... (IE mil dot, P4F, MLR...)
 
#3
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

If you change out that duplex reticle, do the TMR. If you desire to measure the target and range the distance using that method, the TMR is the one to have if you stay with Leupold. Like lizzardking said, best bet is a rangefinder. Otherwise, you will have to compute the data to sharpen the skills.
 
#4
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

The short answer is: Yes, I have seen many departments use duplex reticles.

The longer answer is that one-inch tube Leupy variables with no exernal knobs and a duplex reticle are common among departments that either don't understand, or don't properly fund, their sniper (in this case more accurately called 'perimeter') teams.

It's usually the result of either a purchasing decision by someone who doesn't know any better, or making-do with outdated equipment and a limited budget.

I have seen duplex reticles used to varying degrees of success at short range. Because many so-called 'tactical teams' don't have, and don't know how to use, a Mil dot reticle. The training of these teams varies between being told in-house to simply 'zero a bit high at 100 than aim dead-on after that' [no kidding], and being taught how to zero properly at 100 but 'memorize your hold-over' for longer ranges.

Most officers make do with what they have. Some get good with bad equipment. Enthusiasts buy their own affordable upgrades. Hopeless romantics destroy their careers by pushing too hard to change the system.

Twenty years ago it was different, but these days there's no excuse, in budget or training, not to have - at minimum - a Mil dot reticle. I would argue (and have argued) that not knowing how to range targets, and not equipping and training officers in the use of a device to accomplish this task, is negligence on its face. Regardless, many administrators either don't know this, don't care, or both. After all, when they have to pay-out it's not their money.

To answer your personal question: get a Mil dot and spend the time and money to learn how to use it. It will make you a better shooter and a better hunter. There are many cheap, relatively durable Mil dot scope on the market now. The Bushell is good. The Super Sniper is good. Others work well, too. If you're serious, sell the Leupy and go learn something.

 
#5
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

First you have to consider that, with few exceptions, a 100yd shot in law enforcement is a lONG shot, particularly with city departments. Even in a rural environment, it's rare that we are much farther than 100yds. The farthest I've been on a call was lasered at 249yds. I knew my drop and I knew where to place the crosshairs.

Second, and probably foremost, is cost. The Leupold duplex reticle scopes tend to run about $100 less than the mil-dot scopes...the check writers don't see anything beyond than that! Remington played the law of averages, and put together a package that most departments could work with.

Eric
 
#6
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

The reason behind duplex reticles on my teams rifles are some or all of the above. An additional reason is age. Many of our scopes were purchased many years ago when mildot or moa reticles were not so prevelant. Mine is the only mil (leupold TMR) based reticle on the team. But it is a new scope and I got to pick out what I wanted when they spec'd out the purchase (shocking I know).

All the scopes I have purchased for my personal rifles are mil or moa based. The bottom line is yes we use duplex reticles. Because we have to.

We would all be better served on several levels with a mil/mil or moa/moa based scope
 
#7
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

At the last department I worked for, we had Leupold VX-III's with duplex reticles for years. Some of the other guys told me that years ago they had the scopes sent off and the reticles changed from mildot to the duplex reticles. The team commander at that time wanted the duplex reticles because he thought they would be better for competition. But not long before I left that dept we got NF scopes with mildot reticles.
 
#8
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

it makes no sense to suggest a mildot reticle to someone for a 70yd average shot. i remember watching a training video one time and the student asked the distance to the target. the instructor sounded disgusted and said something to the effect of "what does it matter its just across the street". that about sums it up for a LEO sharpshooter.

chuck
 
#9
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sierra2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The farthest I've been on a call was lasered at 249yds. I knew my drop and I knew where to place the crosshairs....</div></div>If you have a laser, it works properly, you know how to use it, you can get a proper reading, and your scope permits you to dial elevation and windage, then that's all you need for a single static shot. I'm not picking on you, and I'm sure you know what you are doing, but you see my point: It's still one level of professionalism away from being properly equipped and trained.
 
#10
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it makes no sense to suggest a mildot reticle to someone for a 70yd average shot. i remember watching a training video one time and the student asked the distance to the target. the instructor sounded disgusted and said something to the effect of "what does it matter its just across the street". that about sums it up for a LEO sharpshooter.

chuck</div></div>

but u can't shoot the gun out of the perps hand if you do not know the distance
wink.gif


seriously though, its sad to think that comments like that are said.
 
#11
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

A duplex reticle is fine as long as you have a quality LRF and know your come-ups (dope). When I was serving as a LE Sniper, I was trained to run a 100 yard zero. I knew my zero changes from 25 - 300 yards in 50 yard increments. Laser the threat, dial, hold center. We ran NF optics with mil-dot reticle, but we didn't use the md's. I thought a more important feature was the NF's ill reticle. Really a huge aid in low light when the black reticle becomes hard to see. We did low light shooting and the snipers with ill reticles were ahead of the game. We also ran a sniper team. Each sniper had the same kit. If a LRF should go down, we had a second. We also had spare batteries. I'm rambling, but you get the point. Stay safe, Nick~
 
#12
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

A mil-dot reticle and a mil-dot master will,over time,give you the ranging experience without depending on something that runs on batteries. Granted we are talking about LE shots at an average of 72yrds, What if all you have is your weapon and it's a long shot?
 
#13
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

Yes, some departments have Duplex reticles on their rifles.

As mentioned above it usually has to do with the age of the system or the ignorance of the purchaser.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it makes no sense to suggest a mildot reticle to someone for a 70yd average shot. i remember watching a training video one time and the student asked the distance to the target. the instructor sounded disgusted and said something to the effect of "what does it matter its just across the street". that about sums it up for a LEO sharpshooter.</div></div>

So how many callouts have you been on? What were the ranges? Are you just assuming that an officer will only ever have to deploy at the "average" range? In that case, the head is a pretty big target. Why do I need this "match" rifle? I can make a headshot at 50 yards with a shotgun slug. Well if we really want to get into it a headshot isn't needed right? We can just take a body shot because hostage situations are very rare. So why do we need police "sharpshooters"?

We carry the gear we do and train as we do for the "unusual" situations. If I can take a headshot at 300 yards, then making one at 36 yards is not a problem. While everyone likes to quote that 70 yard figure it means there had to be some "long" shots intermixed.

You can train and equip for the "average" if you wish. I prefer to make sure I can get the job done even if it extends outside of the "normal" range. The last time I checked the whole purpose of SWAT was to handle problems that fell outside of the "normal" range of LE capabilities.

BTW, you can "range" with a Duplex reticle, but it is far from accurate or easy and it takes a lot of prior practicing. If you are stuck with one, you can make it work. If there is a need I can do an article on how to accomplish this. It's just been low on my priority list.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Precise1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Leupold Mark IV with duplex reticle and I want to know what would be the <span style="font-weight: bold">best system </span>for ranging targets at unknown distances.</div></div>

A Swarovski Laser Guide. If you don't have that kind of cash, then Bushnell Elite 1500 will work well. You did say BEST right?
 
#14
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nick W.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought a more important feature was the NF's ill reticle. Really a huge aid in low light when the black reticle becomes hard to see. We did low light shooting and the snipers with ill reticles were ahead of the game.</div></div>On the range, and if you don't otherwise care about introducing a light source close to your eye, that works just fine. But, if you can't see the threat well enough to identify it then you shouldn't be engaging it.
 
#17
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

I would love to see an explanation on how to use a duplex reticle for estimating range. Im new to all of this and and the $125.00 saved on a duplex reticle versus a mil dot I felt could be better used elsewhere, especially considering I could always have a mil dot installed at a later date. I wold like to know how to estimate range with a duplex though. Thanks
 
#18
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Precise1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would love to see an explanation on how to use a duplex reticle for estimating range. Im new to all of this and and the $125.00 saved on a duplex reticle versus a mil dot I felt could be better used elsewhere, especially considering I could always have a mil dot installed at a later date. I wold like to know how to estimate range with a duplex though. Thanks </div></div>

If I recall correctly, there is some method you can use where you use the magnification adjustment dial on a 2nd focal plane scope, and once your target manages to fit between the duplex and crosshair, whatever magnification you are on x 100 is your estimated range. Obviously there are finer details in this method which I do not recall, and it's not very precise (+/- 50y).

+1 on the rangefinder.
 
#19
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Forty-One</div><div class="ubbcode-body">All Police are snipers. They use the same equipment the Seals use. It's basically the same thing.</div></div>There's a department nearby that has a Seal on the team. He uses the same equipment that the department does. They're 1" tube Leupys with duplex reticles.

So, there you have it, the Seals use duplex reticles and I can prove it.
laugh.gif


Anyone serious knows that Seals don't use bore guides, either.
wink.gif
 
#20
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

3 of our 4 rifles have duplex reticle scopes, the only one that doesn't is mine which has a mildot. We use the 100yd zero and known come ups from there method anyways. We rely on a laser rangefinder (with a traffic laser for backup if necessary). The dept has litle interest in our equipment and the likelyhood of upgrading anything is slim. I am learning to use the mildot on my own simply to have the knowledge in case I need it. I'm having a hard time finding anywhere to shoot over 100yds around here anyways.
 
#21
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

Police sniper engagements generally occur at ranges of 100 yards or less so they don't need to mil anything. Since concealment is not a major issue for police and since the suspect does not have the technical capacity to detect when they are being lazed, there's nothing driving the need for police snipers to be issued mil-dot or ranging reticles. They are more expensive than duplex, and other than used training, they won't be used at all.
On the other hand, to a military sniper concealment is a major concern so they will mil a target especially if the combatant is believe to have the ability to detect when they are being lazed.

Best Regards,

IUD
 
#23
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

Not a police sniper, but I did by a MK4 16x from a PD swat team Sgt who was selling off 6 of them b/c their dept was switching to variable power scopes. I know he was legit b/c he was selling 6 of the same scopes, and I made the check out to Sgt xxxxx c/o the poice department.

Anyways.....

It was a duplex reticle, so I tend to say, while not a PD sniper, that yes, some do.

On a different note, it was kinda weird that it was advertised as a 1/8" MOA turret, and actually is a 1/4"...
crazy.gif


I emailed him and told him that what he was selling was not 1/8" turrets, and he might want to update his for sale ad for the rest of them. He never did update the ad or return my email, so I guess he didn't believe me....

Kinda unnerving to think a sniper might be adjusting their scope half as much as they think they are, especially if taking a shot where a hostage is involved.
 
#24
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

Not a police sniper...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express once.

By the way, LW, great piece on Mil-dot ranging.
 
#25
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JRose</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Kinda unnerving to think a sniper might be adjusting their scope half as much as they think they are, especially if taking a shot where a hostage is involved. </div></div>

It doesn't suprise me in the slightest.

Different departments go about selection in VASTLY different ways. Some just pick the best deer hunter and hand him a rifle. Others make it a competition and choose the cream of the crop. I would wager there are more than a few out there who have no professional training.

However, you may have been dealing with a Supervisor selling off equipment. Not the actual Sniper using the equipment.
 
#26
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: im-ur-daisy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Police sniper engagements generally occur at ranges of 100 yards or less so they don't need to mil anything. Since concealment is not a major issue for police and since the suspect does not have the technical capacity to detect when they are being lazed...</div></div>On what planet?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Different departments go about selection in VASTLY different ways. Some just pick the best deer hunter and hand him a rifle. Others make it a competition and choose the cream of the crop. I would wager there are more than a few out there who have no professional training.</div></div>I won't take that bet: I know of one department here that has NO practical selection criteria, NO tryouts, and has decided it has NO need for shooting interest or demonstrable talent behind the rifle.

 
#27
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

Not a LEO shooter here, but did spend some range time with the Jax Sheriff's Office SWAT glass shooters. They all had duplex reticle VariX's. Their engagement ranges were normally 35-100yds.

I will say that the utility of the Mil-Dot reticle is NOT limited to ranging. A properly trained and PROFICIENT shooter can use a mil-dot reticled scope to accomodate windage, moving targets, and distange changes quickly without having to come off the scope to see the knobs as you adjust for variables.

As for ranging with a duplex, you need to figure out how much the distance between the center and larger section subtends at what range & magnification. Once you know that, you can derive your own formula to estimate range. Personally, I say range it if you have time, if not.....use the Mk-1 Mod-0 eyeball and your experience to estimate the range (not a good idea over about 150 yards).
 
#28
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NukeMMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will say that the utility of the Mil-Dot reticle is NOT limited to ranging.</div></div>Exactly: You can measure things with it!
 
#29
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

No police sniper here,just wanted to convey to the man that wanted to know. " it's better to have a sextant and know how to use it than to have a gps and not"
 
#30
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

I just finished the White Feather TMT Police Sniper School about a month ago, in the school there were many students using duplex scopes in the class (what there department supplied). You can range with the duplex but do not have the fine ranging ability of a Mil or MOA reticle. At 100 yards measured from the center of the cross hair to the edge of the duplex, varied between scopes. Most were 3 to 4 inches at 100 yd. Used same formulas as Mil ranging just changed from 3.6 or 3.4 to what there scope was.
 
#31
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: seadog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No police sniper here,just wanted to convey to the man that wanted to know. " it's better to have a sextant and know how to use it than to have a gps and not" </div></div>Unless you are in a cave.
wink.gif
 
#32
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

Police precision rifle equipment varies greatly from dept to dept. In the classes I've taken I have seen the whole gamet from Rugers and Savages with Simmons scopes up to AI AWs with USOs and APAs with S&Bs. Remingtons with Leupolds are the most common setup I've seen but even those vary greatly in quality and feature level.
 
#33
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

I am a police sniper and use a mil dot reticle as well as a range finder, and a spare range finder, though I am also competant with a mil dot master. Now to say that law enforcement sniper engagments are usually within 100 yards is probably accurate. However that average 70ish yard shot is not. The ASA researched and continues to publish data involving police sniper shots from across the country. The average police sniper shot is more likely in the 55 yard range. However, there are numerous documented police sniper shots taken well beyond 300 yards. You can get the report from the ASA for a few bucks, well worth the $. Also, concealment is a HUGE issue with LE snipers for a number of reasons. To say that it is not a consideration is absolutely not accurate. Finally, don't be "un nerved" by how much the police sniper is turning his turrets, I promise he knows that his clicks are 1/4 min or not.
 
#34
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

Our local Swat uses Leupold M4 with a duplex. He stated to me the reason behind this was he should never be in a situation where he is shooting over 300 yards. He had all his CB/CBB info logged for FGMM 168G on his scope cap.
 
#35
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

I am a shooter with my departments SRT. We had duplex leupy's until April this year when our chief deputy asked me and my partner what new scopes we wanted. We are fortunate to have been in the buying process. I train with several guys from local PD's in our county and we all train up close and regularly out to 500. For me i like the ranging option, just in case.
 
#36
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: boone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Our local Swat uses Leupold M4 with a duplex. He stated to me the reason behind this was he should never be in a situation where he is shooting over 300 yards.</div></div>

That sounds like someone with their head up their ass.

Using "Never" when talking about tactical situations sets you up for failure. For example, everyone likes to talk about shots inside 100 yards. Well I got a newsflash for you, we have a SCHOOL HALLWAY that's several hundred yards long. If I have to move through that hallway and meet resistance on an active shooter would I be justified in taking a 300 yard shot? You better believe it. We train to a level to be capable of taking 300 yard head shots. Does that mean we will do it operationally? Probably not. But if I can make a 300 yard head shot, than a 300 yard body shot is no problem at all even with wind.

Train for the "Never". That way all the "real" stuff is cake.

For those who are wondering, I am working on an article for Duplex Reticle ranging. Be prepared though, if you want to try it, it's going to be some work. It's not going to be anywhere near as easy as the mil relation formula.
 
#39
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Range estimating with a reticle would work well for shooting rulers that are perpendicular to your line of sight.

ruler_V.jpg

It would be slow, but it would work.

</div></div>

Please 'splain
 
#40
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

In my drag bag, I carry a Mil-Dot Master, a laser range finder (with spare batteries & a small calculator also with spare batteries). My scope on the Dept. rifle is a Lupy Mk4 Mil-Dot 3.5-10x.

I've seen the ASA LEO sniper report & know that the average LEO sniper shot taken was around 55 yards....but the longest was also over 500 yards! One of our local high schools also has one LONG ASS hallway that is about 180 yards!! We've practiced Active Shooter scenarios in that school & I always wondered about engaging a shooter at the other end of that hallway......

Even though I'm employed by a relatively small Dept. in a small town & the likelyhood that I'll ever be used to "take the shot" is miniscule at best......I ALWAYS practice for the unknown, by training to estimate targets with the Mil-Dot reticle & calculator before confirming with the laser rangfinder.

I know that I SHOULD be able to get within 100 yards from any target in the city.....but since our city also had large surrounding areas of open plots of land & farming areas, I know it's possible to have to make shots from 300 to 700 yards. I'd rather practice for these shots & NOT HAVE to take them, than never practice these shots & NEED to one day....

Just my 2 cents....
 
#41
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

Sounds like you have thought through the potential problems, are well-equipped, and train to handle them. Good on ya!

And even urban areas have airports. There can be some long shots on an airport.

The longest L.E. shot I know of was over 500 yards, by a state trooper in, if memory serves, West Virginia. He made the shot.

It's good to be ready.
 
#42
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Range estimating with a reticle would work well for shooting rulers that are perpendicular to your line of sight.

It would be slow, but it would work.

</div></div>

Please 'splain</div></div>

1)accuracy
.a) The accuracy of range finding with a reticle depends on the accuracy of the estimation of the size of the objects being ranged.
.b) The accuracy of the object's measurement milliradians or moa also depends on the reticle, the eye, and angle of the object.
2)time
.a) The measurement of an object into milliradians or moa takes time.
.b) The arithmetic conversion, of an object's measurement in milliradians or moa into a range, also takes time.

What does it all mean?
Reticule ranging, for me [relative to a range finder], is inaccurate and wastes time.
 
#43
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Reticule ranging, for me [relative to a range finder], is inaccurate and wastes time.</div></div>

Can't argue with that.

Clint Smith commented on practicing techniques for clearing a structure by yourself, saying, "We don't practice this because we want to do it. We practice this because we might <span style="font-style: italic">have</span> to do it."

It's the same with reticle ranging. It's better to know how. Implementing new techniques in a gunfight is not a good idea - which Clint also noted.
 
#44
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">On the range, and if you don't otherwise care about introducing a light source close to your eye, that works just fine. But, if you can't see the threat well enough to identify it then you shouldn't be engaging it. </div></div>

I don't often but I'll have to disagree with you on this one Graham. There was an instance where the only identification necessary was made on a silouette with a gun in his hand pointing it in the direction of police officers. It was dark enough that the reticle was not visible without illumination. The shot was made successfully.

People can argue all day long about averages or likelihoods. As soon as an innocent person is in peril and the LE agency who responds isn't properly equipped to handle the situation everyone changes their tune. Is it reasonable for every LE agency to be equipped with the best gear and training money can buy? Probably not from a financial perspective. Yet if one of my family members was in trouble and needed the intervention of a LE "guy with a long rifle" (is that better 41?) you can bet I'd be wishing they had an unlimited budget.
 
#46
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Acehigh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not to change the subject but "most" cities/counties have an airport and 700-900 yards is Close! I guess you could wait on HRT or the TSA.....:)
John </div></div>

your talking about a long range shot through double pain airplane grade multi-layer-lexan?
 
#47
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Mike</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Range estimating with a reticle would work well for shooting rulers that are perpendicular to your line of sight.

It would be slow, but it would work.

</div></div>

Please 'splain</div></div>

1)accuracy
.a) The accuracy of range finding with a reticle depends on the accuracy of the estimation of the size of the objects being ranged.
.b) The accuracy of the object's measurement milliradians or moa also depends on the reticle, the eye, and angle of the object.
2)time
.a) The measurement of an object into milliradians or moa takes time.
.b) The arithmetic conversion, of an object's measurement in milliradians or moa into a range, also takes time.

What does it all mean?
Reticule ranging, for me [relative to a range finder], is inaccurate and wastes time. </div></div>

All this is true.....but <span style="font-weight: bold">IF</span> you actually practice this enough,.....just like with all things, you'll get better & more accurate. Besides, when "Murphey's Law" kicks into gear, & all your electronic devices suddenly either don't work or you left them behind in another gear bag.....you'll feel confident knowing you can accurately range and put around on the body of a threat when needed.
 
#48
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NBLongRanger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
your talking about a long range shot through double pain airplane grade multi-layer-lexan? </div></div>

This is NOT a discussion for an open, unsecured forum. Post the question on the NTOA Forum in the sniper section and I will be happy to discuss it.
 
#49
Re: Do Police Snipers Use Duplex Reticles?

I'm also not a policeman, but i've always been interested in the angular application of reticles for downrange zeroing and rangefinding. It's amazing to me how much inaccurate info there is out there concerning this subject. This is the reason that the most basic form of the "mil-ranging" formula should be understood. This way it can be used with any multi-stadia reticle out there from Plex to Ballistic Plex to archery sight pins if one were so inclined. Not only does the mil-ranging formula define rangefinding with any reticle it also defines trajectory compensation as well since if u think about it a target size is the same sort of dimension as a bullet drop at any given range. Here's the mil-ranging formula in it's most basic form (inches to yds.)--

tgt. size (inches) x range of reticle subtension measurement (usually 100 yds.) / reticle subtension (inches) / quantity of gap tgt. occupies (decimal equivalent) "mil-reading" = range (yds.)

Seems complicated but super simple to apply. Hows about a 10" tgt. and the Leupold 3.5-10x Duplex reticle that measures (subtends) 5.4 inch per hundred yds. at 10x between plex post tips (PPT). Now just "mil" the tgt. in tenths of the total subtension (let's say 1.0 or PPT to PPT). Now just plug in the variables--

10 x 100 / 5.4 / 1.0 = 185
simple!
Now complete the chart as follows recognizing that 10x100/5.4 is a constant of 185.2 to put in the calculator's memory--

185/0.9=200
0.8=231
0.7=265
0.6=310
0.5(tgt. now occupies the PPT to x-hair, can u see?)=370

...now for some this may be too small of a subtension to be useful (i'm a hunter so it works perfect). This is where a THOROUGH understanding of 2nd focal plane reticles (like this VX-III) comes in handy. Reticle subtension is inversely proportional to magnification. Suppose u have a MD master and wanna' use it with this optic. Just adjust the power until the subtension is 3.6 IPHY between x-hair and PPT's. It should be about 10/3.6=X/2.7 = 7.5x. Now go out and check it at the range by using a yardstick at 50 yds. (and halfing the subtension--1.35).

Now start playing around with the formula some with your particular optic so it starts to make sense. There r plenty of objects to "mil-range" everywhere u look. This most basic reticle-ranging formula is easy to memorize as well. For downrange zeroing it works the same way. Suppose u know that your load drops 60" at 600 yds. and u have a 1/8th MOA turret. Here's the formula once again now used for zeroing--

60 x 100 / 1.047 / X = 600
X=9.6 0.125 MOA units (clicks)

Think it's not accurate? Believe me it is oftentimes more accurate than the MD if the subtension is smaller.
 
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