We could standardize rules, targets , yardage and calibers.
Would the NRA or the NSSF need to recognize us?
Thoughts?
Would the NRA or the NSSF need to recognize us?
Thoughts?
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Do we need a "National Precision Rimfire Association"
- Thread starter iggyort
- Start date
What type of competitions would be done compared to the courses of fire for various Olympic events, the Steel Challenge stuff, etc?
was thinking of doing something like that a few years ago, "tactical precision rimfire association", national precision rimfire association has a ring too.
don't need anyone else to recognize it, it'd be it's own sanctioning body. just like NASCAR's beginning, use a similar concept to the tactical riflemans league, also like the intent of the ruger rimfire challenge. then all of these mini "tactical / sniper rimfire matches" could count for something on a local, state, regional or national level
i think a sanctioning body would be nice to have for "tactical / sniper" type matches, as it seems most of the big 3 or 4 competition sanctioning bodies completely ignore these types of outings.
of course there's costs to doing it, most particularly the admin of it, so there would have to be some sort of dues. even a cheap bastard like myself would kick in 20.00 or 25.00 a year.
set up a COF / stage / scenario "catalog" using different scenarios that can be rotated for different types of matches that would be accomodated by either public or private ranges. a set of standardized targets, paper, steel, or commonly purchased rimfire targets or combo of all. this way a cof that is held on the east coast is the same as it would be shot on the west coast, and everywhere in between. that'll also create a state, regional, national championship shoots, and champions as well as aggregate score champions for the "season" for those that can't or opt not to attend the bigger shoots.
a simple set of equipment rules, sort of set it up like IDPA was before it got too finicky:
bolt action, divided into heavy barrel (varmint or bull barrel larger than __?__diameter) & sporter barrel
semi action, divided into heavy barrel (varmint or bull barrel larger than __?__diameter) & sporter barrel
break barrel action, divided into heavy barrel (varmint or bull barrel larger than __?__diameter) & sporter barrel
lever action, divided into heavy barrel (varmint or bull barrel larger than __?__diameter) & sporter barrel
pump action, divided into heavy barrel (varmint or bull barrel larger than __?__diameter) & sporter barrel
optics whatever the shooter chooses.
shooter classifications in each division can be as simple as D, C, B, A class so that same skill levels are competing against the same skill levels. there can be a separate qualification course to be shot or a 3 times next higher score shot, you move up a class. to do that, the COF would have to be the same sum of points in a perfect score scenario, no matter what the variables would be within it.
the key is that every single scenario's point value in the catalog would have to equal a max perfect score possible for the entire match
for instance (using simple math for a simple example) in the catalog:
scenario #1 4 targets at 25Y = 100 points
scenario #2 2 targets at 50Y = 50 points
scenario #3 2 targets at 25Y + 1 target at 50Y = 100 points
scenario #4 1 target at 25Y + 1 target 50Y + 1 target 75Y = 125 points
scenario #5 2 targets at 25Y = 25 points
scenario #6 1 target at 50Y = 25 points
scenario #7 2 targets 100Y = 100 points
so if the max perfect score is say 250, you have a choice of mixing and matching scenarios 1, 2, 3 = 250 points for a smaller sized match with limited distance
-or-
qty of 3 of scenario 5's, one of 6, 2, 1 = 250 points
-or-
7, qty of two 6's, 1 = 250 points
...and so on
shooter classes:
class d 0-100 points
class c 101-175 points
class b 176-225 points
class a 226-250 points
some COFs would be tougher than others, help some and hurt others, but established ones from the "catalog" would be rotated or chosen by the match director or chosen to be shot by the association (for monthly events) - but not to use the same one back to back, or to give advanced notice to the shooters except on the day of the match at registration what COF is chosen to be shot. the shooter can know be accustomed to the stages in the catalog, but not know which ones are going to be shot until registered on match day. that'll also prevent alot of "gaming", and several matches attended would even out the COFs that hurt or help different shooters.
mix in prone & positional shooting to the COF. shooting gloves, jackets, vests, slings, bipods, shooting bags only (no type of lead sled / bench type rests) - there is the ARA benchrest for that type of thing.
"X" amount or more attendees can be considered a match as this will allow matches to be held on private or public ranges, basically allowing you and a few buddies to get together without having the hassle or expense of reserving a range. must be advertised on the "go daddy type website" and meets the COF / stage / scenarios listed in the "catalog".
so lets say in the course of a year 12 monthly matches are held in a local "chapter". the local chapter's range could only facilitate a certain distance, distances, or targets. this is taken into consideration at the time of sanctioning the event...chapter 123 can only run scenarios #1 #2 #6 #whatever and so on. the association or match director randomly picks the scenarios to be used for month being shot, but amount of stages can't exceed 50% of the stages that the range can facilitate. just as long as the combo of stages used equals whatever the max perfect score is.
that'll mean you can't use up your catalog all in one or two matches practically guaranteeing every monthly match thereafter will be different, and the max perfect score format will allow the shooter classification / qualification from coast to coast.
stages can be as simple as a timed dueling tree, or 25 1" bulls on paper at 50yds from the prone position, X amount of points each, 60 second time limit, requires at least 2 mag changes (to cut down the semi auto advantage on such a stage). the # of hits time "X" amount of points per bull = "X" amount of points for that stage. chances are there will be bulls left unshot, even with the semi guys.
so in the case of example scenario #6 above, at 1 point for each bull, a perfect score would be 25 points at 50yds, using 1 target.
once the math, divisions, classifications are set and makes sense, time to get the ball rolling:
create an admin board, odd number of members, lets for example use 7. break up the country (thinking just the USA for example) in regions -NE, SE, NC, SC, NW, SW with a rep from each region on the admin board. the 7th member is the president to keep mediation among the 6. the 6 regional reps vote on the nominated president. any rules or changes to anything else has to be voted on by all 7, and being an odd number, no ties in the vote. a treasurer or better yet co-treasures must be named to control the finances (membership dues, expenses, etc.).
1. build a godaddy type website for a centralized "portal".
2. printing and sending of scorecards, rulebooks, etc. (or direct printing from posting of #1), classification / qualification books / logs etc. for documentation to bring to different matches of your classification. perhaps an extra small fee of 5.00 for the classification book.
3. reporting of scores through #1 or established email, or through the regional guy
4. posting of rankings through #1
5. through #1 once it's caught on, sponsorships / advertising can be made. discounts for equipment / ammo to members, etc. for group buys through the association once it grows enough to do it.
6. membership dues can also spring for extras like shirts, hats, etc or can be purchased separately by members.
7. portion of match fee goes to the association for non association participants, match fee discount for members (example 20.00 match fee for non members with 10.00 going to the association. 10.00 for association members with a 1.00 or two going to the association) - the math can be figured out later on that so that the match director / club isn't putting on a match without some compensation for their time, efforts, or any supplies used to hold the match.
8. non association shooters scores don't count for championships or state, regional, national classification. this way someone is allowed to compete, but not privy to any benefits that the association may provide. if shooting more than 1 or 2 matches, paying the association fee would be cheaper for the shooter and allow them into the championships.
9. championships could have monetary prizes, trophies, gift cards from any possible approved sponsors / advertisers etc.
10. can get "association approved" trophies, awards, trinkets "badges of accomplishment". i like to use R&S Enterprises & Trophies: Soccer Trophies, Soccer Trophy, Football Trophies, Baseball Trophies ? Dinn Trophy that can setup customized work at a good price. i get stuff from them for my silhouette shoots, and both are great to deal with.
so from an association member's perspective, using the hypothetical example costs used on all of the above, 25.00 a year, 5.00 for a classification book (30.00 a year), 10.00 to shoot a match. if there's enough members, you get a patch, or a tee shirt, or a decal, maybe more than just 1 thing. if there are enough members, you get discounts on stuff through group buys and advertisers offers. the chance to win a championship title in state, regional, national events and just by racking up points by going to multiple matches in the score aggregate for your division / classification.
from a non association shooter's perspective, you shoot a match for 20.00, but are not considered for championships. ater 2 matches, being a member looks better than not being a member.
from a match director's or club's perspective, you get national exposure to your match, getting compensation for your efforts and supplies through match fees and still makes a contribution to the association to keep it going. from that you also get already set up scenarios, sources of supply for mathc stuff, and other ideas exchanged from other match directors.
from the association's perspective, you get to promote some form of shooting sports often ignored by "the big guys", but also bringing together shooters with similiar intrests together on an established platform and probably introducing an often ignored style of shooting not thought possible by many even in the shooting community. with all the video games out there being played by juniors, it may bring them out of the virtual "tactical" BS, and get them riding an actual rifle and perhaps teach them a little about themselves.
sounds complicated, but not really when you think about it. it would take more than just one person to pull it together, or at least after it's foundation is laid. it's easy to get overwhelmed quickly with life's other little events going on, and a single person will probably not be able to dedicate enough time and effort to put on a good "association" or sanctioning body. that's the biggest part of doing something like a NPRA, TPRA, or whatever you may want to call it.
the NRA was on to something, but then dropped the ball when it comes to "tactical / sniper" type matches. and gets pricey to the competitor $10.00 per fee just to the NRA, not leaving much meat on the bone for a match director or club to hold an event at a low enough price to attract your average joe blow... but they do provide some awards - NRA Club Champion Challenge - . some of the rules are variable scopes set up to or less than 4X, and multiple types of firearms to be used (Rifle/Pistol, Shotgun/Rifle, Pistol/Shotgun). - that kinda kills the whole "tactical / sniper match" type thing as a whole.
don't need anyone else to recognize it, it'd be it's own sanctioning body. just like NASCAR's beginning, use a similar concept to the tactical riflemans league, also like the intent of the ruger rimfire challenge. then all of these mini "tactical / sniper rimfire matches" could count for something on a local, state, regional or national level
i think a sanctioning body would be nice to have for "tactical / sniper" type matches, as it seems most of the big 3 or 4 competition sanctioning bodies completely ignore these types of outings.
of course there's costs to doing it, most particularly the admin of it, so there would have to be some sort of dues. even a cheap bastard like myself would kick in 20.00 or 25.00 a year.
set up a COF / stage / scenario "catalog" using different scenarios that can be rotated for different types of matches that would be accomodated by either public or private ranges. a set of standardized targets, paper, steel, or commonly purchased rimfire targets or combo of all. this way a cof that is held on the east coast is the same as it would be shot on the west coast, and everywhere in between. that'll also create a state, regional, national championship shoots, and champions as well as aggregate score champions for the "season" for those that can't or opt not to attend the bigger shoots.
a simple set of equipment rules, sort of set it up like IDPA was before it got too finicky:
bolt action, divided into heavy barrel (varmint or bull barrel larger than __?__diameter) & sporter barrel
semi action, divided into heavy barrel (varmint or bull barrel larger than __?__diameter) & sporter barrel
break barrel action, divided into heavy barrel (varmint or bull barrel larger than __?__diameter) & sporter barrel
lever action, divided into heavy barrel (varmint or bull barrel larger than __?__diameter) & sporter barrel
pump action, divided into heavy barrel (varmint or bull barrel larger than __?__diameter) & sporter barrel
optics whatever the shooter chooses.
shooter classifications in each division can be as simple as D, C, B, A class so that same skill levels are competing against the same skill levels. there can be a separate qualification course to be shot or a 3 times next higher score shot, you move up a class. to do that, the COF would have to be the same sum of points in a perfect score scenario, no matter what the variables would be within it.
the key is that every single scenario's point value in the catalog would have to equal a max perfect score possible for the entire match
for instance (using simple math for a simple example) in the catalog:
scenario #1 4 targets at 25Y = 100 points
scenario #2 2 targets at 50Y = 50 points
scenario #3 2 targets at 25Y + 1 target at 50Y = 100 points
scenario #4 1 target at 25Y + 1 target 50Y + 1 target 75Y = 125 points
scenario #5 2 targets at 25Y = 25 points
scenario #6 1 target at 50Y = 25 points
scenario #7 2 targets 100Y = 100 points
so if the max perfect score is say 250, you have a choice of mixing and matching scenarios 1, 2, 3 = 250 points for a smaller sized match with limited distance
-or-
qty of 3 of scenario 5's, one of 6, 2, 1 = 250 points
-or-
7, qty of two 6's, 1 = 250 points
...and so on
shooter classes:
class d 0-100 points
class c 101-175 points
class b 176-225 points
class a 226-250 points
some COFs would be tougher than others, help some and hurt others, but established ones from the "catalog" would be rotated or chosen by the match director or chosen to be shot by the association (for monthly events) - but not to use the same one back to back, or to give advanced notice to the shooters except on the day of the match at registration what COF is chosen to be shot. the shooter can know be accustomed to the stages in the catalog, but not know which ones are going to be shot until registered on match day. that'll also prevent alot of "gaming", and several matches attended would even out the COFs that hurt or help different shooters.
mix in prone & positional shooting to the COF. shooting gloves, jackets, vests, slings, bipods, shooting bags only (no type of lead sled / bench type rests) - there is the ARA benchrest for that type of thing.
"X" amount or more attendees can be considered a match as this will allow matches to be held on private or public ranges, basically allowing you and a few buddies to get together without having the hassle or expense of reserving a range. must be advertised on the "go daddy type website" and meets the COF / stage / scenarios listed in the "catalog".
so lets say in the course of a year 12 monthly matches are held in a local "chapter". the local chapter's range could only facilitate a certain distance, distances, or targets. this is taken into consideration at the time of sanctioning the event...chapter 123 can only run scenarios #1 #2 #6 #whatever and so on. the association or match director randomly picks the scenarios to be used for month being shot, but amount of stages can't exceed 50% of the stages that the range can facilitate. just as long as the combo of stages used equals whatever the max perfect score is.
that'll mean you can't use up your catalog all in one or two matches practically guaranteeing every monthly match thereafter will be different, and the max perfect score format will allow the shooter classification / qualification from coast to coast.
stages can be as simple as a timed dueling tree, or 25 1" bulls on paper at 50yds from the prone position, X amount of points each, 60 second time limit, requires at least 2 mag changes (to cut down the semi auto advantage on such a stage). the # of hits time "X" amount of points per bull = "X" amount of points for that stage. chances are there will be bulls left unshot, even with the semi guys.
so in the case of example scenario #6 above, at 1 point for each bull, a perfect score would be 25 points at 50yds, using 1 target.
once the math, divisions, classifications are set and makes sense, time to get the ball rolling:
create an admin board, odd number of members, lets for example use 7. break up the country (thinking just the USA for example) in regions -NE, SE, NC, SC, NW, SW with a rep from each region on the admin board. the 7th member is the president to keep mediation among the 6. the 6 regional reps vote on the nominated president. any rules or changes to anything else has to be voted on by all 7, and being an odd number, no ties in the vote. a treasurer or better yet co-treasures must be named to control the finances (membership dues, expenses, etc.).
1. build a godaddy type website for a centralized "portal".
2. printing and sending of scorecards, rulebooks, etc. (or direct printing from posting of #1), classification / qualification books / logs etc. for documentation to bring to different matches of your classification. perhaps an extra small fee of 5.00 for the classification book.
3. reporting of scores through #1 or established email, or through the regional guy
4. posting of rankings through #1
5. through #1 once it's caught on, sponsorships / advertising can be made. discounts for equipment / ammo to members, etc. for group buys through the association once it grows enough to do it.
6. membership dues can also spring for extras like shirts, hats, etc or can be purchased separately by members.
7. portion of match fee goes to the association for non association participants, match fee discount for members (example 20.00 match fee for non members with 10.00 going to the association. 10.00 for association members with a 1.00 or two going to the association) - the math can be figured out later on that so that the match director / club isn't putting on a match without some compensation for their time, efforts, or any supplies used to hold the match.
8. non association shooters scores don't count for championships or state, regional, national classification. this way someone is allowed to compete, but not privy to any benefits that the association may provide. if shooting more than 1 or 2 matches, paying the association fee would be cheaper for the shooter and allow them into the championships.
9. championships could have monetary prizes, trophies, gift cards from any possible approved sponsors / advertisers etc.
10. can get "association approved" trophies, awards, trinkets "badges of accomplishment". i like to use R&S Enterprises & Trophies: Soccer Trophies, Soccer Trophy, Football Trophies, Baseball Trophies ? Dinn Trophy that can setup customized work at a good price. i get stuff from them for my silhouette shoots, and both are great to deal with.
so from an association member's perspective, using the hypothetical example costs used on all of the above, 25.00 a year, 5.00 for a classification book (30.00 a year), 10.00 to shoot a match. if there's enough members, you get a patch, or a tee shirt, or a decal, maybe more than just 1 thing. if there are enough members, you get discounts on stuff through group buys and advertisers offers. the chance to win a championship title in state, regional, national events and just by racking up points by going to multiple matches in the score aggregate for your division / classification.
from a non association shooter's perspective, you shoot a match for 20.00, but are not considered for championships. ater 2 matches, being a member looks better than not being a member.
from a match director's or club's perspective, you get national exposure to your match, getting compensation for your efforts and supplies through match fees and still makes a contribution to the association to keep it going. from that you also get already set up scenarios, sources of supply for mathc stuff, and other ideas exchanged from other match directors.
from the association's perspective, you get to promote some form of shooting sports often ignored by "the big guys", but also bringing together shooters with similiar intrests together on an established platform and probably introducing an often ignored style of shooting not thought possible by many even in the shooting community. with all the video games out there being played by juniors, it may bring them out of the virtual "tactical" BS, and get them riding an actual rifle and perhaps teach them a little about themselves.
sounds complicated, but not really when you think about it. it would take more than just one person to pull it together, or at least after it's foundation is laid. it's easy to get overwhelmed quickly with life's other little events going on, and a single person will probably not be able to dedicate enough time and effort to put on a good "association" or sanctioning body. that's the biggest part of doing something like a NPRA, TPRA, or whatever you may want to call it.
the NRA was on to something, but then dropped the ball when it comes to "tactical / sniper" type matches. and gets pricey to the competitor $10.00 per fee just to the NRA, not leaving much meat on the bone for a match director or club to hold an event at a low enough price to attract your average joe blow... but they do provide some awards - NRA Club Champion Challenge - . some of the rules are variable scopes set up to or less than 4X, and multiple types of firearms to be used (Rifle/Pistol, Shotgun/Rifle, Pistol/Shotgun). - that kinda kills the whole "tactical / sniper match" type thing as a whole.
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yeah alot of thinking, like i commented, i was thinking of trying to get something like this a few years ago and wrote down some thoughts on ways to execute it, this post is mostly a copy and paste form those notes. then i got in over my head with some other stuff, and those notes were put to the side.
i know alot of ranges, especially public ones, don't allow metal. but mixing of the scenarios could compensate for that making a "max point match" still possible.
even if the steel targets were simulated like in the SH rimfire matches - though not as noisy w/ instant feedback, still the same amount of points for hitting the same amount of surface area.
i know alot of ranges, especially public ones, don't allow metal. but mixing of the scenarios could compensate for that making a "max point match" still possible.
even if the steel targets were simulated like in the SH rimfire matches - though not as noisy w/ instant feedback, still the same amount of points for hitting the same amount of surface area.
fertile....more like burnt out - too many funny smelling cigs back in the day.
president sounds good, but only if i get a faggy painted 747 and monica lewinsky as a stewardess.
keep at it top, the thinking, not the lefty cigs
we will chim in every now an then with other ideals to add.
president HUM!! lets vote now, sure you could do better then what we have
we will chim in every now an then with other ideals to add.
president HUM!! lets vote now, sure you could do better then what we have
Great job Top..
There are always "Charter Members" my friends...how do you think the national Tactical Precision series started. Let's not let this die..
I am sure that rimfire sponsors will come out of the woodwork, especially the after market folks who provide precision equipment, and also target manufactuers....
There are always "Charter Members" my friends...how do you think the national Tactical Precision series started. Let's not let this die..
I am sure that rimfire sponsors will come out of the woodwork, especially the after market folks who provide precision equipment, and also target manufactuers....
