Do you remove muzzle brake during cleaning?

[Nostradumbass]

I usually don't remove the muzzle brakes on my bolt guns while cleaning the barrels....but today I did, to remove all the carbon buildup. What I noticed was some pitting on the face of the muzzle. Nowhere near the crown, but a small amount of light pitting around the face. There was no rust present, which makes me wonder where it came from. Could it be from the exiting gasses being redirected by the brake?
The barrel is a rock creek.

Do you guys usually remove the brakes from your rifles when you clean them?
Thanks much!

Phillip

 

[Donr13]

No, mine is rockset in place so it won't spin off with the can. It's the tbac brake for my 30ba


Not sure why you have pitting

 

[Nostradumbass]

Okay, pics aren't the greatest....but maybe this will help shed light on my issue.
Here's the brake. It's an RWS.

And here's the muzzle. There was just some black buildup around the pitting....after cleaning, this is what it looks like.

 

[Black max]

I'm no expert but, it looks like rust pitting. Maybe your rifle got wet and the carbon build up from the brake holds moisture longer??? Just a guess...

 

[alphadogg56]

Wow, thanks for the picture that makes me want to check for sure. What's your barrel made from. Iam curious as to how long it took to corrode to that point.

 

[Nostradumbass]

The rifle is less than a year old. It has less than 200 rounds through it. I am meticulous about cleaning my rifles....but I have notorious bad luck! The barrel is made from a stainless alloy. The bore has a mirror shine.
Fwiw, the chambering is 408 CheyTac, so there's a serious amount of gas exiting the barrel....

I keep my rifles in a climate controlled safe.
This is the first time I took the brake off. I agree, it looks like rust pitting to me too, but damn, the tube is practically brand new....and stainless doesn't rust as easily a carbon steel barrel, so what gives?

The pitting isn't near the crown, what would y'all do? Get it re crowned, or keep shooting and monitor it?
Thanks,
Phillip

 

[Pahntr760]

I'd have the threaded portion and the muzzle end CeraKoted to match. It has a very small effect on the dimensions, the break should still screw in well. And then, you're protected. Just my 2cents.

 

[alphadogg56]

Just my 2 cents ...If your meticulous an I believe you are I'd have it re crowned then cerakoted, of course you might have to have it re timed .could be there was a corrosive in there when the two parts were connected.rust untreated continues to get worse.i would be willing to bet your not the only one with this problem , just they don't know yet....I would say thats lucky you looked and I think it's something I will monitor on my braked firearms from now on since I don't think most brakes are removed to cerakote. By the way stainless does corrode to a lesser exstent. Id say good luck , but heck your toten a 408 your already lucky.but if it doesn't bother you an you treat it so it doesn't get worse it probably won't affect accuracy unless it reaches your rifling.

 

[M40_A1]

What is your cleaning regimen? Especially, what solvents?

 

[Akhunter907]

This is just me but my brakes come off when I clean I want to make sure I clean threads and the crown I'll clean the brake separately I'm sure others may have their ways but I think it's a no brainer.

 

[Akhunter907]

I like using wipe out better question on this thread is who doesn't remove a brake to clean??

 

[Akhunter907]

When I clean any rifle. Muzzle is wet. Dripping depending on the cleaner. I'm guessing a high ammonia solvent. And it sat in the muzzle. How do you clean without it off. Just my 2c

Sorry for multiple posts. Working on a spotty wifii

 

[Wildwillalaska]

The nice thing of the badger FTE and mini, as well as RWS and others that have a bolt, easy, easy off when cleaning. I always take them off more to ensure no solvent left than anything, but also makes carbon more accessible. Do have a couple of rifles with badger thruster breaks that I don't remove, but when I clean, last thing I do is two oversize quetips, one to remove gunk from crown/muzzle, the next with small dab of oil.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I think the lightbulb just came on.
I use kroil oil, and butches bore shine to clean the barrel, and light oil last for storage. I usually run a rag through the ports in the brake to wipe out the solvent. But, the way the brake is designed, I can't touch the muzzle. The ammonia in the butches bore shine probably had an effect on the face of the muzzle.

I guess, you live and learn....

 

[sib1948]

I never remove my brakes when I clean and have had no issues. I f it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I never remove my brakes when I clean and have had no issues. I f it ain't broke don't fix it.

You may not know it's broke, unless you remove the brake to see....just sayin'

 

[alphadogg56]

With you on that.

 

[Gray]

Has it effected accuracy? I wouldn't think so since it no where near the muzzle. You could have the muzzle cleaned up by your gunsmith and recrowned but what keeping it from happening again, especially since you are not 100% sure of the cause. I would leave it and rock on if the accuracy is still good...

 

[7magsavage]

I have an RWS brake on my 308. Never took it off. Now you have me wondering. This may be a stupid question, but I hear people talking about "timing" a brake, but don't know what this means exactly. If the brake is removed does something special need to be done to replace it to ensure a consistent POI?

 

[alphadogg56]

Timing simply means when your brake reaches it's resting point your ports are the same height on both sides. If you simply remove your brake your fine but if you remove the thread starting point it changes the ending point as in a recrown.

 

[M40_A1]

I think the lightbulb just came on.
I use kroil oil, and butches bore shine to clean the barrel, and light oil last for storage. I usually run a rag through the ports in the brake to wipe out the solvent. But, the way the brake is designed, I can't touch the muzzle. The ammonia in the butches bore shine probably had an effect on the face of the muzzle.

I guess, you live and learn....

That's why I asked. If Butches has ammonia in it, that would be my guess.
Does a shoulder on the brake interface with the muzzle? I'm wondering why the pitting would be all directions around the muzzle, not just at the bottom. An interface is the only thing I can think of that might cause the solvents to wick all the way around the face like that.

 

[SporterII]

I see no damage. A Q tip with some, I use Hoppies 9, wiping around there after all swabbing, whatever. A dry one last. If it shoots, do not disturb it. Dry is good. I use a bore mop on some [A-2 hider on an AR] also to get those dry. Chamber gets a bore mop to insure its dry also.

 

[Nostradumbass]

That's why I asked. If Butches has ammonia in it, that would be my guess.
Does a shoulder on the brake interface with the muzzle? I'm wondering why the pitting would be all directions around the muzzle, not just at the bottom. An interface is the only thing I can think of that might cause the solvents to wick all the way around the face like that.

It still has me puzzled. There is no interface with the brake. Nothing touches the face, but it is recessed in the brake to where you can't reach it with a long qtip.
Like I said, if it's going to happen, it'll happen to me....

 

[Morale_Gear]

If you shoot a lot without removing and cleaning the brake, eventually you will get a decent amount of carbon buildup. That will need to be removed or it may eventually start effecting accuracy.

I've never had pitting on the end of a barrel like that before.

 

[29aholic]

I've seen chrome lined bores/chambers do that, specifically a real Tula arsenal SVD. You always get a heavy ammonia odor when you shoot some of those European made 7.62x54 rounds.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I believe I finally got an answer!!!!!
I talked to the owner of Rocky Mountain Bullets, who is an avid 408 shooter. Told him what I'm seeing, and he said it's normal. Apparently big bore, high velocity rifles like this one will see some gas erosion on the face of the muzzle, and he recommends re crowning them every 500 rounds, or when a loss of accuracy is noted.

That makes me feel a lot better. At least it may not be from my negligence.
Thanks guys!
Phillip

 

[29aholic]

I believe I finally got an answer!!!!!
I talked to the owner of Rocky Mountain Bullets, who is an avid 408 shooter. Told him what I'm seeing, and he said it's normal. Apparently big bore, high velocity rifles like this one will see some gas erosion on the face of the muzzle, and he recommends re crowning them every 500 rounds, or when a loss of accuracy is noted.

That makes me feel a lot better. At least it may not be from my negligence.
Thanks guys!
Phillip

My first inclination was "flame cutting" but I expected to see a concentric pattern all the way around the muzzle similar to flame cutting around the throats of a magnum revolver.
IMHO I don't believe that is what is going on here...the pattern/appearance isn't consistent.

 

[M40_A1]

My first inclination was "flame cutting" but I expected to see a concentric pattern all the way around the muzzle similar to flame cutting around the throats of a magnum revolver.
IMHO I don't believe that is what is going on here...the pattern/appearance isn't consistent.

I agree. Flame cutting would normally leave some type of observable pattern.

 

[Nostradumbass]

I agree. Flame cutting would normally leave some type of observable pattern.

I know what you mean....I'll just keep shooting and monitoring the indications. Fwiw, the rifle leans at an angle in the safe, and if it were the ammonia cleaner, I would think it would be to one side due to gravity....

Oh yeah, I also talked to rock creek barrels, and they told me a test was done with submersing a stainless barrel in ammonia, and after X amount of hours, NO corrosion was ever visible....he said the ammonia would evaporate before it attacked the steel. Keep in mind I did not conduct this experiment personally.

 

[pjparker]

Phillip - Since the pitting on the face of the muzzle does not appear at or near the crown, I would not worry about recrowning right away, but closely monitoring it would be prudent. I don't have experience with anything as brutal as a .408, but with something that intense, odd things may happen.

Bayou Rifles at Juliff is having good attendance at our matches of late, come shoot with us again sometime, just leave the .408 at home, though !

Paul

 

[Weaselthis]

I read somewhere that carbon attracts moisture and can cause pitting an rust. I use a Vais brake on ALL my rifles and spin them off EACH time I clean. I make sure the carbon is off the face of the barrel crown just to be sure. I don't have to "time" a brake back on, so it's a non-issue for me. Good luck.

 

[M40_A1]

Oh yeah, I also talked to rock creek barrels, and they told me a test was done with submersing a stainless barrel in ammonia, and after X amount of hours, NO corrosion was ever visible....he said the ammonia would evaporate before it attacked the steel. Keep in mind I did not conduct this experiment personally.

See, now, I've heard the opposite. When using Sweets we were told as long as the solvent was wet there was no danger of the stainless being attacked. It was only after the Sweets was dry that oxygen and moisture could combine with the residue, forming an acid that would attack stainless. I question if immersion in an ammonia based solvent proves anything, but it sounds great for marketing. Or maybe my information is wrong?

 

[29aholic]

See, now, I've heard the opposite. When using Sweets we were told as long as the solvent was wet there was no danger of the stainless being attacked. It was only after the Sweets was dry that oxygen and moisture could combine with the residue, forming an acid that would attack stainless. I question if immersion in an ammonia based solvent proves anything, but it sounds great for marketing. Or maybe my information is wrong?

You are correct. The one thing I was told by many, many BR shooters is never leave Sweets (I guess it applies to any ammonia based solvent) in the bore long enough to dry. No soaking...wipe it in, wipe it (or brush) out, flush with Hoppes.
What I think may be happening is carbon deposits are being superheated like the embers of a fire. So I guess in a sense it might be flame related by heating the carbon to the point it's burning in to the steel. I would still expect to see more of a pattern though.

 

[DocUSMCRetired]

You are correct. The one thing I was told by many, many BR shooters is never leave Sweets (I guess it applies to any ammonia based solvent) in the bore long enough to dry. No soaking...wipe it in, wipe it (or brush) out, flush with Hoppes.
What I think may be happening is carbon deposits are being superheated like the embers of a fire. So I guess in a sense it might be flame related by heating the carbon to the point it's burning in to the steel. I would still expect to see more of a pattern though.

Use boretech and you will never look back.