Suppressors Do you wipe?

[Steel+Killer]

Yes, I would hope you do you sick fuck..., but I am talking about suppressor wipes at the business end of your suppressor if they make a wipe cap for it.

I bought a DA Primal and got the wipe cap for it I have used it with 9mm and 300BLK and it does seem a little quitter haven't really tested it yet to see if it degrades the accuracy anyone else use a wipe cape with a rubber or neoprene insert? I bought rubber faucet washers from Ace hardware, and they seem to hold up better than whatever the rubber insert was that came with it from Dead Air.

 

[WindstormSCR]

used the wipe cap on my primal, some degredation of accuracy but nothing worth speaking about for a 9mm inside 100yd

generally they're used for subguns and PCCs where the ranges are too short to matter for accuracy issues.

 

[Steel+Killer]

used the wipe cap on my primal, some degredation of accuracy but nothing worth speaking about for a 9mm inside 100yd

generally they're used for subguns and PCCs where the ranges are too short to matter for accuracy issues.

Thanks for the response.

Did you notice any sound difference or if its quitter with your Primal when using the wipe cap?

Also, on your Primal do you find it extremely hard to screw and unscrew any adapters to the can itself?

Mine screws on fine for the first few turns and then becomes extremely hard to turn its not cross threading, but it damn sure feels like it.

 

[hlee]

Doesn’t the ATF consider wipes suppressor parts, thus suppressors in their own right? As of circa 2017, replacing a wipe is a “repair” that can only be done by the manufacturer. At least that is my understanding.

ATF Reverses Position on Silencer Wipes

Dead Air's Ghost is unique because it features a full stack of metallic baffles, but can also support the addition of a single wipe in its end cap.

internationalsportsman.com

 

[Steel+Killer]

I guess the ATF better go raid all hardware stores, big box home improvement stores and all other places that sell faucet washers…..lol

Also I do not see how any caliber specific end caps that you can replace would be any different than a “wipe”

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

You don't see because you do not understand.

Early suppressor were essentially a stack of wipes, hundreds of them. Some of the older military cans like the XM's on the M16 were nothing but a stack of wipes. I made the mistake of taking one apart in the armory one day and about 500 of them dumped out the end.

So to the ATF, a Wipe is a essentially a baffle, which is considered a suppressor part, therefore regulated.

Today they really serve no purpose other than super short, speciality cans that are only good for a few shots before being rebuilt. Its not worth the hassle or the risk of messing with them for little/no performance benefit.

 

[WindstormSCR]

It is more quiet, especially on something like a short-size wolfman or ghost-M.

I doubt dead air would be selling the cap if it fell afoul of ATF rules, as they are notoriously careful on that sort of thing.

My guess is that they specifically made it a component of the end cap in order to not be an integral part of the suppressor, and thus fall under the rules for interchangeable endcaps instead of “parts or baffles”

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

No they are steeping on the line of ATF compliance / Non compliance.

They are not shipping the adapter with a wipe. This is your hint. Like solvent traps, bump stocks and glock switches, they all are in a grey area up to interpretation of the law.

Now you can agree or disagree with this, that doesn't matter. What matters is, the video they have up for that product, doing what the person did, is clearly illegal. Showing you how to commit a crime is not a crime and I highly doubt they are going to come to your defense if you get jammed up.

A wipe is a NFA controlled item. No if ands or butts about it. Manufacturing a wipe is no different than manufacturing a baffle from a freeze plug or screwing an oil filter on the end of the gun.

No amount of mental gymnastics is going to change that.

We already see ATF agents hunting down solvent trap buyers from purchase lists. What happens when they get wind of this Wipe adapter and start showing up to demand you show them your can? Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that out.

The juice is not even close to being worth the squeeze.

 

[lash]

No they are steeping on the line of ATF compliance / Non compliance.

They are not shipping the adapter with a wipe. This is your hint. Like solvent traps, bump stocks and glock switches, they all are in a grey area up to interpretation of the law.

Now you can agree or disagree with this, that doesn't matter. What matters is, the video they have up for that product, doing what the person did, is clearly illegal. Showing you how to commit a crime is not a crime and I highly doubt they are going to come to your defense if you get jammed up.

A wipe is a NFA controlled item. No if ands or butts about it. Manufacturing a wipe is no different than manufacturing a baffle from a freeze plug or screwing an oil filter on the end of the gun.

No amount of mental gymnastics is going to change that.

We already see ATF agents hunting down solvent trap buyers from purchase lists. What happens when they get wind of this Wipe adapter and start showing up to demand you show them your can? Doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure that out.

The juice is not even close to being worth the squeeze.

Again, you didn’t read correctly. They are shipping them with a wipe, but do not carry nor offer replacements for those wipes. It’s perfectly legal to ship it with a wipe as part of the manufactured can. It’s now just not accepted by the ATF as a “user replaceable” part.

But hey, you are the self proclaimed expert on all things firearms, so who am I to question your authoritah?

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

R-Series Wipe Cap Assembly | Dead Air Silencers

deadairsilencers.com

Primal | Dead Air Silencers

deadairsilencers.com

Wipes have ALWAYS been considered a NFA item going back 80 years. There may have been a branch letter or some dolt who said otherwise, but its widely understood they are no different than a baffle.

 

[lash]

So what’s your point? The can is being sold as an NFA item.

 

[Huskydriver]

@Mageever

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

The point is, A wipe is a NFA item. Buy buying a wipe adapter, like buying a 1/2x28 oil filter adapter, solvent trap or any number of other items the ATF decides are a violation of NFA, you run the risk of getting on their radar. If you follow the "directions" and either add wipes to a can that did not come with them or are shown to replace them yourselves, you are in violation of NFA. Now we all agree its a bullshit law but if you don't think it will and can be used against you one day you are an idiot.

A plastic washer itself is not a suppressor part in itself. When you use one as, that is intent. The same way an Oil filter is not a suppressor until you stick one on the end of the rifle. Both situations will get you in hot water.

This is to educate the people reading so they understand what they are doing and the risks. I could give 2 fucks what you or anyone else here does with this information, but you are doing the community a disservice by telling them something is OK when its in violation of Federal Law.

 

[hlee]

R-Series Wipe Cap Assembly | Dead Air Silencers

deadairsilencers.com

Primal | Dead Air Silencers

deadairsilencers.com

Wipes have ALWAYS been considered a NFA item going back 80 years. There may have been a branch letter or some dolt who said otherwise, but its widely understood they are no different than a baffle.

There was apparently a “determination letter” in 1999 that says tha a wipe is not a baffle and is user replaceable. That was reversed in 2017.

http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/atf_letter66.txt

BREAKING: ATF Decides Dead Air Wipes Are Silencer Parts -

In a decision that could have broad implications throughout the silencer industry as well as with shooters/consumers, the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATFE or ATF) has notified silencer manufacturer Dead Air Armament that the wipes used in their Ghost M silencer is a silencer part...

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[Steel+Killer]

They are not shipping the adapter with a wipe. This is your hint

This statement is untrue. They absolutely are shipping the adapter with a wipe.

Don’t ask me how I know though…..

 

[lash]

He didn’t read the letter from Dead Air and is just spouting off.

They said as much in the open letter to customers. They even went on to say that they are researching harder materials or other wipe materials that will last longer to ship with the suppressor.

 

[Steel+Killer]

First and foremost the ATF will need a warrant to see any thing I own. If they can get a judge to sign off on a warrant for a piece of rubber that goes on the end of a already legally owned can…..ha ha great

I don’t give a fuck let’s go to court!!

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

A federal judge signing a warrant for violation of a federal law when presented with probable cause and likely commission of a crime. Yea you don't have anything to worry about. TOP men have better things to do than give gun owners a hard time. They would never hem you up over something so trivial as a suppressor part, solvent trap, FRT or even a shoestring. This has never happened before.

 

[lash]

It’s a bullshit interpretation anyway. I don’t think anyone here will argue that. Their sticking point seems to be that the wipe not be changed by the user, not user serviceable. That right there makes it plain to me that cans that can be disassembled to clean will next be deemed illegal since the user can modify or replace parts if needed.

It’s penny ante shit being done to make life tougher and to display control.

 

[lash]

A federal judge signing a warrant for violation of a federal law when presented with probable cause and likely commission of a crime. Yea you don't have anything to worry about. TOP men have better things to do than give gun owners a hard time. They would never hem you up over something so trivial as a suppressor part, solvent trap, FRT or even a shoestring. This has never happened before.

Well at least we have you here to interpret our laws and rules for us and keep us in line. Thank God for that!

 

[hlee]

It’s a bullshit interpretation anyway. I don’t think anyone here will argue that. Their sticking point seems to be that the wipe not be changed by the user, not user serviceable. That right there makes it plain to me that cans that can be disassembled to clean will next be deemed illegal since the user can modify or replace parts if needed.

It’s penny ante shit being done to make life tougher and to display control.

The next step won’t be user serviceable suppressors. The next step will be replaceable mounts and end caps. Then user serviceable cans.

 

[hlee]

Learned it on the internet
Hope I get away with it

 

[lash]

The next step won’t be user serviceable suppressors. The next step will be replaceable mounts and end caps. Then user serviceable cans.

Potato, potahto. You may be right, but it’s a clear signal that there’s intent to further restrict rather than the other way around.

 

[Mageever]

OK kids, here's the deal. I haven't read all this and I'm just here telling you how it is.

I'm going to tell you the high level history here, but I'm not going to engage people trying to split hairs because you read something on the internet that one time.

The ATF considered rubber wipes as usable items as declared in an opinion letter which stated that because it was a wear item, that users could replace them themselves (I'm not going to argue or engage mental gymnastics about them being suppressor parts but still providing this opinion back then). We know to never trust ATF opinions. And as per their usual fashion, they came out with a NEW opinion that said they do indeed count these as suppressor parts and that MANUFACTURERS can't sell extra--just like they can't sell extra suppressor baffles. Thank you to the suppressor company that was butt-hurt that we were selling them and asked the ATF to give an opinion. You know who you are.

So, to remain compliant with the new interpretation of the regs we ceased selling them as accessory items. The ATF has never said that YOU as the end user can't replace them. And before anyone here or someone that may still be affiliated with a mostly defunct company decides to ask the ATF for further clarification--just don't.

Those that try and extend the ATF's logic of these being suppressor parts and thus, the end user is making suppressor parts and that they're illegal, need to just chill out. That's not what was declared by the ATF and what they care about. Ya'll can go to Ace hardware and buy a 1" OD, 1/8" thick, neoprene faucet washer and nobody needs to be telling anyone how to live their life.

We'll continue to ship one in each suppressor which is absolutely allowed. If you buy a wipe cap as an accessory like the OP did, you'll notice that it's not included. In the meantime, my recommendation is that you don't walk around with wipes falling out of your pockets in front of an ATF agent. This isn't legal advice. And call your mom. She misses you.

I hope that helps! (and congrats Steel+Killer on your new suppressor)

Todd Magee
Dead Air Engineering

 

[WindstormSCR]

OK kids, here's the deal. I haven't read all this and I'm just here telling you how it is.

I'm going to tell you the high level history here, but I'm not going to engage people trying to split hairs because you read something on the internet that one time.

The ATF considered rubber wipes as usable items as declared in an opinion letter which stated that because it was a wear item, that users could replace them themselves (I'm not going to argue or engage mental gymnastics about them being suppressor parts but still providing this opinion back then). We know to never trust ATF opinions. And as per their usual fashion, they came out with a NEW opinion that said they do indeed count these as suppressor parts and that MANUFACTURERS can't sell extra--just like they can't sell extra suppressor baffles. Thank you to the suppressor company that was butt-hurt that we were selling them and asked the ATF to give an opinion. You know who you are.

So, to remain compliant with the new interpretation of the regs we ceased selling them as accessory items. The ATF has never said that YOU as the end user can't replace them. And before anyone here or someone that may still be affiliated with a mostly defunct company decides to ask the ATF for further clarification--just don't.

Those that try and extend the ATF's logic of these being suppressor parts and thus, the end user is making suppressor parts and that they're illegal, need to just chill out. That's not what was declared by the ATF and what they care about. Ya'll can go to Ace hardware and buy a 1" OD, 1/8" thick, neoprene faucet washer and nobody needs to be telling anyone how to live their life.

We'll continue to ship one in each suppressor which is absolutely allowed. If you buy a wipe cap as an accessory like the OP did, you'll notice that it's not included. In the meantime, my recommendation is that you don't walk around with wipes falling out of your pockets in front of an ATF agent. This isn't legal advice. And call your mom. She misses you.

I hope that helps! (and congrats Steel+Killer on your new suppressor)

Todd Magee
Dead Air Engineering

Thanks for the clarity, very helpful.

only thing I can think to ask about is if you guys are planning to do one of those assemblies in .458 cal. my lever action would appreciate you (and so would my USP 45)

 

[Steel+Killer]

I hope that helps! (and congrats Steel+Killer on your new suppressor)

Thanks, love the Primal I got a Serria-5 and a Nomad-L sitting in jail now waiting to come home can't wait.

 

[acudaowner]

paper is for pussies high pressure washing is the way to go

 

[Maggot]

I still have 600 rolls of TP left from Covid so YES.

 

[Mageever]

Thanks for the clarity, very helpful.

only thing I can think to ask about is if you guys are planning to do one of those assemblies in .458 cal. my lever action would appreciate you (and so would my USP 45)

Sorry, we're not really. I'm not saying never, but it's not really on our radar. We do, however, have the Ghost-M and that's specifically designed for your USP 45.