Does Kestrel 5700 Elite w/ AB record zero'ed environmental conditions? Deciding between that and Kestrel Hornady 4dof

[ChiandChong]

Deciding between Kestrel's 5700 Elite w/ Applied Ballistics and Hornady 4dof right now. A friend of mine with the 5700 Hornady told me that 5700 Elite w/ AB does NOT have the option to record or enter the environmental conditions when I zero'ed the rifle, ie temperature, absolute pressure, humidity. But Hornady does have that option, and he is very satisfied with his 5700 Hornady.

I find it kind of hard to believe that 5700's AB version would not be able to record or enter the environmentals during the zero'ed shot condition, as it would not be able to calculate $hit if the shooter should ever have to shoot in a different weather/condition than what he zero'ed the rifle in, which would completely destroy any purpose of a ballistic calc in the first place.

Can somebody with the 5700 Elite verify for me if this is fud? The Hornady is $200 cheaper and I'm sure it works well enough for me or most other guys, but I just want to know before I pull the trigger if the 5700 Elite is really missing that function. Thanks y'all.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Weather conditions from your 100yd zero don’t matter. This is one of the reasons we use 100yd zero.

Your second paragraph is a lack of understanding how ballistic calculators work.

 

[Kestrel Ballistics]

The Hornady Kestrel does not store environmentals for zero or zero angel. The captured data is used to calculate the zero shot as it is with all ballistic calculations, there is no storage.

 

[Steel head]

Weather conditions from your 100yd zero don’t matter. This is one of the reasons we use 100yd zero.

Your second paragraph is a lack of understanding how ballistic calculators work.

This!
It’s a non issue.
If you’re 100 yard zero is changing you have issues that no ballistics software can predict.

 

[ChiandChong]

Weather conditions from your 100yd zero don’t matter. This is one of the reasons we use 100yd zero.

Your second paragraph is a lack of understanding how ballistic calculators work.

Thanks for the reply.

I use 300 yard zeros generally, usually just aim low at 100 yards depending on what the ballistic calc says, instead of going out to 300 yards, which is harder to find in the local ranges.

For a 300 yard zero, wont the ballistic calc need to know the environmental conditions during the zeroing session to properly predict bullet impact when shooting in different weather conditions than what the rig was zeroed in?

 

[ChiandChong]

This!
It’s a non issue.
If you’re 100 yard zero is changing you have issues that no ballistics software can predict.

Thanks. What about for a 300 yard zero? Won't the weather conditions during the zero session need to be known by the ballistic calc to predict poi when shooting in different weather conditions than what the rifle/scope/round was zeroed in?

 

[Steel head]

Thanks. What about for a 300 yard zero? Won't the weather conditions during the zero session need to be known by the ballistic calc to predict poi when shooting in different weather conditions than what the rifle/scope/round was zeroed in?

Your working with more variables at 300 than 100.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Zero @ 100. Dial in your dope for the day to 300 or wherever you want and leave it.

 

[ChiandChong]

Your working with more variables at 300 than 100.

Yes, but dialing less during long shots is worth it to me.

Does AB in Kestrel take into consideration the zero atmospheric conditions or does the user have to manually input the info?

Thanks

 

[ChiandChong]

Zero @ 100. Dial in your dope for the day to 300 or wherever you want and leave it.

How is that different from my procedure?

"I use 300 yard zeros generally, usually just aim low at 100 yards depending on what the ballistic calc says, instead of going out to 300 yards, which is harder to find in the local ranges."

Both adjust the reticle lower to intersect the 300yd poi, and will have (identical) higher poi at 100yards.

 

[Steel head]

Yes, but dialing less during long shots is worth it to me.

Does AB in Kestrel take into consideration the zero atmospheric conditions or does the user have to manually input the info?

Thanks

No
Because you’re zero shouldn’t be changing because of environmentals.
That’s why a 100 zero is recommended environmentals have no real effect there.

 

[ChiandChong]

No
Because you’re zero shouldn’t be changing because of environmentals.
That’s why a 100 zero is recommended environmentals have no real effect there.

I don't expect there to be any changes in poi at 100 yards, it would be so minute it wouldn't matter 100yd anyhow.

But at 1250yds, there will will be QUITE the difference between a trajectory that was zeroed in 92F and another that is shot in 38F, even if they both match up at the start of the race (100yds).

This where I expect any ballistic calc to to be able to calculate the difference in poi 1250yds down the line from two different shooting environments, and to do so, IT WILL NEED THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS THE SHOT WAS ZEROED IN AS A BASIS FOR COMPARISON, no?

Does Kestrel Applied Ballistics take that into consideration automatically during the conditions when I zeroed the rifle?

 

[Steel head]

I don't expect there to be any changes in poi at 100 yards, it would be so minute it wouldn't matter 100yd anyhow.

But at 1250yds, there will will be QUITE the difference between a trajectory that was zeroed in 92F and another that is shot in 38F, even if they both match up at the start of the race (100yds).

This where I expect any ballistic calc to to be able to calculate the difference in poi 1250yds down the line from two different shooting environments, and to do so, IT WILL NEED THE ENVIRONMENTAL CONDITIONS THE SHOT WAS ZEROED IN AS A BASIS FOR COMPARISON, no?

Does Kestrel Applied Ballistics take that into consideration automatically during the conditions when I zeroed the rifle?

Lol
Your WAAAAYY over thinking this.
This is my method for using a kestrel.
Zero at 100.
Go to happy place and let kestrel collect current environment.
Shoot at 500 and 1000 and get kestrel on track with that.
Then using my 7 saum as an example
Kestrel will tell you max Supersonic (1623 yards)and transonic point(1939 yards)
I have steel right now at 1525 and 1931 yards so I’ll confirm at those distances also and use DSF if necessary at 1931 yards, usually if your speed and BC are correct it’s amazingly close with very little fussing about needed.


Then with that I can take my kestrel and rifle anywhere and collect environment with kestrel and be a happy camper.

 

[Tokay444]

How many times do you need to be fed the same answer? NO! It does not hold onto the weather conditions you shot your zero in because with a 100 yard zero it’s irrelevant. That’s why we use a 100 yard zero.
Yes atmospherics come into play at 1250, but not the atmospherics of the day you shot your zero. Only the atmospherics on the day you’re shooting 1250.

 

[Tokay444]

I mean, even Kestrel answered you.
It takes a pretty substantial changes in altitude and air density to change your zero, at which point you’re probably going to verify your zero in your current locale before your hunt anyway.
Don’t zero at 300.

 

[_Windrider_]

How is that different from my procedure?

"I use 300 yard zeros generally, usually just aim low at 100 yards depending on what the ballistic calc says, instead of going out to 300 yards, which is harder to find in the local ranges."

Both adjust the reticle lower to intersect the 300yd poi, and will have (identical) higher poi at 100yards.

If you zero at 100 its a hell of a lot easier to hold over for 300 than hold under for 100. a 300 yard zero is a bad idea.

 

[Dthomas3523]

How is that different from my procedure?

"I use 300 yard zeros generally, usually just aim low at 100 yards depending on what the ballistic calc says, instead of going out to 300 yards, which is harder to find in the local ranges."

Both adjust the reticle lower to intersect the 300yd poi, and will have (identical) higher poi at 100yards.

Because a 300yd zero is harder to make sure it’s an actual zero. Environment matters at 300 and shooter error is magnified.

So, you have two options:

1: Zero at 100 and use software as intended

2: Be stubborn, use 300 which may or may not actually be zero’d depending on environment/shooter and complain that software doesn’t have the right features to work properly.

 

[ChiandChong]

1: Zero at 100 and use software as intended

It's just really hard for me to imagine that with today's computing powers the software doesn't have the raw power to calculate trajectories with a 300 yard zero across different environments.

Yes, I absolutely see what you and everybody else is talking about with 100 yard zeros being virtually identical across wide spectrums of environment up to that point (100yds, maybe a little farther), thereby negating the need to establish a zero environmental, as any environment you zero in would be the same result at 100, so just the shooting conditions thereafter would be needed to calculate the shot on the spot for that corresponding environment.

It's simple, heck, if I were the programmer, I would chose to do it this way (with a 100 yd zero required) also, it would save me a crap ton of calculation to not have to account for unique "baseline" condition for future calculations in different environments.

BUT, it seems requiring a 100 yard zero for the software to work for convenience sake (on the part of the programmer, ballistians, not the end user) is leaving cash on the table that could be had. They could get this thing wide open and let it do so much more, it's just more calculations.

Kind of reminds me of the LRF scene 2 years ago: every manufacture had great units, but they all left the door open just a little for the other guy and left some weird quirk in their units when any one of them could have easily shut the door on the other competitors and honed their products to being flawless.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Applied ballistics isn’t going to encourage bad things.

A “zero” needs to be a zero regardless of anything at all. If software is need to keep it current......that’s NOT a zero.

It’s not an easy button. Applied Ballistics (they have their short comings like anyone else), is out there to push proper techniques and other such things. Allowing people to use ranges which will NOT be an actual zero (like your 300yd preference) would be encouraging bad techniques.

The problem is your preference not being efficient, not the software.

 

[Dthomas3523]

The fact that you need zero environmentals recorded literally means your rifle isn’t zero’d.

If it changes based on your environment, it’s not static and therefore not a proper zero.

 

[ChiandChong]

It’s not an easy button. Applied Ballistics (they have their short comings like anyone else), is out there to push proper techniques and other such things. Allowing people to use ranges which will NOT be an actual zero (like your 300yd preference) would be encouraging bad techniques.

The problem is your preference not being efficient, not the software.

That's news to me, I didn't know zeros at other distances are not actually real zeroes.

To think, I was gonna zero one of the magnums at 600yards.

I guess that's awfully "inefficient"

 

[Dthomas3523]

That's news to me, I didn't know zeros at other distances are not actually real zeroes.

To think, I was gonna zero one of the magnums at 600yards.

I guess that's awfully "inefficient"

Yes, that is not smart at all. You have a lot to learn.

600 yds is definitely not a zero. It will only be good for those exact conditions.

 

[Steel head]

That's news to me, I didn't know zeros at other distances are not actually real zeroes.

To think, I was gonna zero one of the magnums at 600yards.

I guess that's awfully "inefficient"

Just think about it.
How much does the environmental conditions affect a 100 yards zero vs 300 or even 600?
It’s not rocket science.
With a rock solid foundation (Zero) you Get a rock solid structure( data)

Ballistics AE had a zero weather feature but I never tried using it because the idea is flawed and as soon as I got a kestrel I stopped using Ballistics AE because the kestrel is significantly easier to use and true up and gives at location environmentals

 

[Tokay444]

Lol. The guys shooting King of 2 Mile zero at 100.
The best centre fire shooters in the world in every discipline zero at 100, but you know better it seems.

 

[Tokay444]

600 yard zero. Dafuq?!?

 

[djarecke]

I normally don't dive into these discussions, and posts like this are exactly why.

There are some very accomplished shooters offering valid advice and even offering the reasons behind that advice, and instead of saying "Oh, great! Thank you!", the person who asked the question continues to defend their line of thinking and why they are right.

Y'all have more patience than I do apparently...

 

[RayDBonz]

Test it yourself. Spend $12 for Strelok Pro, enter your zeroing weather and see if it really matters and how it compares to other software.

 

[LawnMM]

 

[usafa77]

Troll

 

[Dthomas3523]

Not to mention, let’s take 600yd zero for example. At 600 there will always be wind factored into that zero.

For software that uses zero weather.......you would need to know the exact wind speed/drift to input into your calculator. The only way to do this is either with Lidar or measure the drift. Realistically, measuring drift is only way to do it.

And to measure drift, you need a reference point. That would be something like a 100yd zero that you know has zero wind factory in. And this would now negate the need for the 600 zero.

The reasons for 100yd zero are lengthy. It just doesn’t make any sense to zero at any other distance.

 

[jmf_tracy]

Thanks for the entertainment. priceless.
BTW, i zero my rifle at 1 mile, but sometimes i miss at 100 yards.