Does the Lower make or break the gun?

[flyfisher117]

Ive decided on the AR Im getting. Im either going to get a RRA Coyote Rifle.

Or im going to get a complete upper from a custom AR maker (specialized Dynamics) and then put together my own lower.

I asked a friend what he thought of just a plain Stag Arms Striped lower and he said no they are crap and told me to get a superior arms striped lower. Can you really go wrong when buying a lower? (im not looking at plum crazy lowers ive heard a lot of goods and very bads about them)

 

[slothlacrosse]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

i'd stay away from superior arms.

i bought a mil-spec lower that had the front detent hole drilled about 1/16th of an inch high.

they sent me another lower. the pistol grip screw hole was drilled 1/8th of an inch too far back.

third time's the charm. i finally got a mil-spec lower that was within spec

 

[berzerkrobot]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

as stated above some of the cheaper brands have tolerance issues, but in my opinion if the holes are in the right spot the gun will shoot just the same. Another thing to keep in mind is some uppers from one brand will fit better with some lowers from other brands, others will have more wiggle. Mega in WA makes good stuff

 

[jason8251]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

I've seen cheaper lowers (Superior and the like) shoot balls on with the right upper. Just make sure you purchase it from a reputable dealer who will take it back if if you go have fitment problems.
Even if it wiggles alot but the holes line up you can install an Accu-wedge or rear tensioning pin to tighten everything up. It's just the price you pay for buying lowers at that price point.
I would save the hassle of it all the fitting drama and save up for a higher end lower or buy a used one, just my opinion.

 

[ggmanning]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

In my experience unless the lower is out of spec.......barrel and trigger make the gun.

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

Your friend is full of shit, stag is regarded as one of the nicer stripped lowers you can get (same with LPK), while at the same time superior has a reputation for being the antithesis of it's namesake. For the most part, a lower is just a lower, but there are a few exceptions (inferior, err... superior arms being one of those).

My only sage advice for you is to make sure you get one that is forged, as there are still some cast ones floating around and they tend to be less quality.

On the affordable end of the market, DPMS & RRA tend to make a decent lower, but I have found the finish on RRA to be less than stellar in recent times. Stag and several others are basically the "middle ground". If money is not an object then I would recommend either Daniel Defense or LMT, both have a reputation for high quality. FWIW, I just used a CMMG on a recent build, and it was a very nice piece of kit. I will probably use that from now on since that is my best option @ the local gun shop.

BTW- there are only a few actual MFG. of lowers, and most ae selectively branded after production. There is a master list floating around here somewhere. I recommend the brands above based on hands-on experience with all of them, and many others. If you can stand a chalky, uneven finish then you can cheap out. If you insist upon looks AND function, as I do, then you typically have to pay a little more for that. I don't mind, but i'm a perfectionist. If looks REALLY matter to you, then check out billet lowers.

 

[maladat]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bcw1284</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have found the finish on RRA to be less than stellar in recent times.</div></div>

I have one RRA lower and I have no complaints about the finish.

However, the pivot pin/takedown pin holes are either tight or not spaced the same as compared to my other lower (POF) and two uppers (VLTOR MUR and whatever WOP uses for service rifle uppers).

Once the pivot pin is through the upper, pushing in or pulling out the takedown pin requires a hammer.

 

[flyfisher117]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

How does a person go about telling if the lower is cast or forged? Its my first AR and I would rather try to save a few bucks on the lower (without getting pure shit) and invest a little extra into a stock and decent trigger that fits my needs/wants

 

[Jayman_10X]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

The key here is to get one with a good trigger (or be able to have one fitted) and have a reliable fit to the upper. JP Enterprises sells an excellent trigger and tensioning pin that should work for most lower/upper fits. The magazine well fit is also a very important consideration as this will affect the interaction of the brass feed. A lot of good ones out there. Just stay away from the real cheap horse crap and you should be fine.

Of course, the barrel-upper configuration will make the biggest difference.

 

[Birddog1911]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

If you're a member of the big AR website, Palmetto State Armory is offering a group buy discount on their lowers. $65 shipped is pretty hard to beat. Their lowers, from what I've been told, are done by Aero Precision, and are held in good regard.

Also, another nice thing that Palmetto offers is a lower parts kit with upgraded Geisselle triggers. I'm using their lower and LPK with Geisselle trigger for my Mk 12.

 

[George63]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

I will go with the others, better to put a 250$ trigger in a 60 $ lower than 5$ worth of trigger from a lower parts kit in a 250 $ lower. I use some 60 $ lowers, on carbines or AR pistols, they are perfect, If you want to move them along, you could sell 10 used no name lowers every week at 50 $

On an AR it is barrel, trigger, bolt and use a float tube, as long as the rest works it matters little

 

[11B101ABN]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

Any in spec lower will work, since the lower is a non-stressed part. What matters is the trigger in terms of the lower.

Brand loyalty, what you like/dislike in terms of roll marks etc.... All of that may factor in.

All of the ar based weapons I have handled have had at least a small amount of play between the upper and lower. There is one company ( forgot the name) that allows for a screw to tighten the fit between upper and lower.

Good luck.

 

[George63]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 11B101ABN</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> There is one company ( forgot the name) that allows for a screw to tighten the fit between upper and lower.

</div></div>
Sun devil does that, the MEGA MA ten came with that, I glue in a piece of rubber for wiggle

 

[VJJPunisher]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

99 bucks for a complete lower works as well, the receiver is polymer, thought it'd be interesting to try out and it runs just fine, the one i got was made by plumcrazy. I know I know but for 100 bucks for the entire lower it is one way to go, and it works great and is light. just an idea

 

[lwrkeysfisher]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

The price difference between lowers for the most part is pretty small, I'd go with a company you know will stand behind their product. LMT and Daniel Defense come to mind and both can be had for ~$130. Last time I asked Noveske who built their lowers it was Stag, so they can't be that bad either...

 

[jwb47]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

cmt is the parent company of stag and they build lowers for alot of other companies . I bought a couple of essential arms lowers not to long ago for 95.00 a piece . then spent a little extra for the rock river lower parts kit with a 2 stage match trigger . dont skimp on the lower parts . it will save you alot of grief in the future

 

[acidone]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

Stag makes most of the parts, Including the lower, for Smith and Wesson Ar's. I'm not saying the S&W Ar's are the greatest, but to go as far as to say they're crap is someting else. Stag makes one hell of a mass produced Ar themselves.

That being said, unless you buy something that is absolute garbage from some no name company, the lower doesn't make one bit of difference.

 

[Graham]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

The lower is just a housing for the trigger. As long as it fits together the lower has nothing to do with how well the rifle will shoot.

 

[Helidriver]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

Go buy a Noveske. It will only be a few bucks more. Better yet buy one of their matched upper and lower sets and build the entire rifle yourself. Buy the Brownells build video and go for it. You get to pick every single part on the rifle. You will enjoy it.

 

[Graham]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

POF makes some nice standard .223 lowers.

 

[Inogame]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

JD Machine in California does the Noveske Recievers. They also do their own, which are milled the same. Might be able to get a matched set cheaper.
Check the top of the Group Buy section, Big Joe did a Hide buy from those guys, there's a lot of info on them and the receivers in that thread.

 

[Helidriver]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Inogame</div><div class="ubbcode-body">JD Machine in California does the Noveske Recievers. They also do their own, which are milled the same. Might be able to get a matched set cheaper.
Check the top of the Group Buy section, Big Joe did a Hide buy from those guys, there's a lot of info on them and the receivers in that thread.

</div></div>

Good point. Talk to Eric there. He told me last week he had a couple of Hide sets left.

 

[blakheaven]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

I would invest in a nice upper scope and get a decent lower with a good trigger. The three most important things for me is a good barrel (no duh) but often overlooked is nice bolt assembly! Its all in the materials used in the bolt assembly. I cannot stand a jamming AR. Then obviously have a nice trigger.

 

[gmk202]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

The truth is a few manufacturers make Lower receievers for everyone else. They just stamp their company logo on them. This was a list fronm two years ago or so.


Lewis Machine & Tool
LMT
Lauer
DS Arms
PWA
Eagle
Armalite
Knights Armament
Barrett

Continental Machine ToolStag
Rock River Arms
High Standard
Noveske
Century (New)
Global Tactical
CLE
S&W
MGI
Wilson Tactical
Grenadier Precision
Colt

LAR Manufacturing
LAR
Bushmaster
Ameetec
DPMS
CMMG
Double Star
Fulton Armory
Spike's Tactical

JVP
Double Star
LRB
Charles Daly

Mega Machine Shop
Mega
GSE
Dalphon
POF
Alexander Arms

Olympic
Olympic
SGW
Tromix
Palmetto
Dalphon
Frankford
Century (Old)

Sun Devil
Sun Devil forged billet receivers

Superior
Superior Arms
Lauer (New)

 

[Varget 7-08]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jason8251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've seen cheaper lowers (Superior and the like) shoot balls on with the right upper. Just make sure you purchase it from a reputable dealer who will take it back if if you go have fitment problems.
Even if it wiggles alot but the holes line up you can install an Accu-wedge or rear tensioning pin to tighten everything up. It's just the price you pay for buying lowers at that price point.
I would save the hassle of it all the fitting drama and save up for a higher end lower or buy a used one, just my opinion. </div></div>

X2, my thoughts exactly. Just make sure you can return it hassle free.

 

[FNARSHOOTER]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

I have built quite a few Ar type weapons and I have found it much simpler to get a matched set upper/lower then add all the parts you want to achive your goal, A lower part kit is nice but if you plan on getting into the game I would just stock up on hardware(pins,springs ect) and pick the grip and trigger you want. Matched Barrel and bolt is the best way to go. then pick your stock and forend (ff is best) All said and done you have what you want the first time (hopefully) But you will spend more then if you just pick a weapon already built by a manufacture.If this is a one time thing the latter is best. If you want to do a few then the tooling you need will be justifed. Good luck,
Scot

 

[Helidriver]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have built quite a few Ar type weapons and I have found it much simpler to get a matched set upper/lower then add all the parts you want to achive your goal, A lower part kit is nice but if you plan on getting into the game I would just stock up on hardware(pins,springs ect) and pick the grip and trigger you want. Matched Barrel and bolt is the best way to go. then pick your stock and forend (ff is best) All said and done you have what you want the first time (hopefully) But you will spend more then if you just pick a weapon already built by a manufacture.If this is a one time thing the latter is best. If you want to do a few then the tooling you need will be justifed. Good luck,
Scot </div></div>

That's what I did. I've got quite an inventory of pins, springs and small parts. Each of my Ar's are different and I really enjoy swaping parts to get different combinations.

 

[flyfisher117]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have built quite a few Ar type weapons and I have found it much simpler to get a matched set upper/lower then add all the parts you want to achive your goal, A lower part kit is nice but if you plan on getting into the game I would just stock up on hardware(pins,springs ect) and pick the grip and trigger you want. Matched Barrel and bolt is the best way to go. then pick your stock and forend (ff is best) All said and done you have what you want the first time (hopefully) But you will spend more then if you just pick a weapon already built by a manufacture.If this is a one time thing the latter is best. If you want to do a few then the tooling you need will be justifed. Good luck,
Scot </div></div>

I would like to get into a few AR's but before i go to college i told myself that i HAVE to buy one because when im in college theres no way i will be able to afford a gun, ammo will be hard enough. Im just not sure its seems a bit easier to just buy a complete gun for now and i know what im getting then if something on it doesnt fit my fancy i can upgrade or swap it out

 

[Helidriver]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

Nothing wrong with doing it that way. Go buy one assembled. Most guys end up swaping parts and raising the cost of the rifle in the long run. If you can find exactly what you want in a factory rifle then go for it.

If you plan to live on campus be careful brining that thing on campus. Make sure you know the rules and local laws. Also get some good instruction on how to be safe with that thing. I know you play Call of Duty and stuff but that's not the same. Get with someone who KNOWS what they are doing. It could save your life or the life of someone else.

I'm not harping on you kid. I was just like you. Just do it right and we'll see you on the range kicking ass some day!!!

 

[flyfisher117]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

Ya if i do live on campus im going to leave all my guns at an off campus location like home or grandparents house (pending i go to a college near then) but if i end up going to college too far from home im still going to end up leaving them at home but i wont get to shoot/hunt much.

haha call of duty hasnt taugh me anything except that its wayyyy to fake. What is the best way to learn about AR's i know the town cop here is pretty well versed in them and could probably teach me one inside and out in a few hours but are there any types of classes that will just teach you EVERYTHING about them?

 

[Helidriver]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the noobie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ya if i do live on campus im going to leave all my guns at an off campus location like home or grandparents house (pending i go to a college near then) but if i end up going to college too far from home im still going to end up leaving them at home but i wont get to shoot/hunt much.

haha call of duty hasnt taugh me anything except that its wayyyy to fake. What is the best way to learn about AR's i know the town cop here is pretty well versed in them and could probably teach me one inside and out in a few hours but are there any types of classes that will just teach you EVERYTHING about them? </div></div>

I would get with him for a safety class and basics on the rifle. You can also contact the NRA and get the number to a local NRA Instructor. Look on amazon for a book called "Black Rifle". I think there are a couple editions. Try to get the newest. It's good info. Just practice safe shooting and you will love your AR!

 

[Helidriver]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

I also forgot to mention that I love Call of Duty.....lol

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the noobie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What is the best way to learn about AR's</div></div> 1-800-MARINES

 

[Helidriver]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the noobie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What is the best way to learn about AR's</div></div> 1-800-MARINES

</div></div>

Yep! That too. That's how I learned.....uh 20 years ago...

 

[flyfisher117]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the noobie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What is the best way to learn about AR's</div></div> 1-800-MARINES

</div></div>

ewwwwwww

 

[Helidriver]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the noobie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the noobie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What is the best way to learn about AR's</div></div> 1-800-MARINES

</div></div>

ewwwwwww </div></div>

WTF?

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the noobie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the noobie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> What is the best way to learn about AR's</div></div> 1-800-MARINES

</div></div>

ewwwwwww </div></div> It's where the pro's go.

Don't get me started, I used to be a silver tongued recruiter.....

Otherwise, CMP or other National Match style shooting. With ARs or any type of shooting, start with the basics. I'm assuming you're talking about marksmanship. If you're talking about building them, Brownells.com has some great videos that show step by step for "the noobie" you are!

Good luck bud.

 

[flyfisher117]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Helidriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

WTF? </div></div>

NAVY

 

[rsilvers]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gmk202</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The truth is a few manufacturers make Lower receievers for everyone else. They just stamp their company logo on them. This was a list fronm two years ago or so.</div></div>

You have Colt and Rock River in the same group, and are saying there is no difference except for the logo stamped. Very likely they are made to a different drawing. They may be made in the same building, but that is irrelevant. Grade 1 and Grade 8 bolts are made by the same company in the same building also.

 

[bcw1284]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the noobie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Helidriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

WTF? </div></div>

NAVY

</div></div>

Oh yes, the seamen who graced us with the phrase: "It's not gay if you're under way". ROFL!

 

[Helidriver]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the noobie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Helidriver</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

WTF? </div></div>

NAVY

</div></div>

I see, ok then......no comment being that you're 17.....

 

[OverWatch]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

I say send the extra $50 for the more noted lower, when it is all said and done if you want to sell it, it will be easier to sell a Noveske than a lesser known brand. I say +1 for the brownells video. Once you get the lower, which is the only FFL item, you can set your rifle up just the way you want it. I agree about the most important thing about a lower is the trigger. I just picked up a RRA NM 2 stage for my M&P 15 and I can't believe how smooth it is.

Good luck,
OW

 

[Shawnjon250]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

Can anyone give me some info on these, http://surplusammo.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=710

Who makes them?
Are they any good or junk?
I couldn't find them on that master list that was posted

 

[Birddog1911]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shawnjon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can anyone give me some info on these, http://surplusammo.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=710

Who makes them?
Are they any good or junk?
I couldn't find them on that master list that was posted </div></div>

Their supposed to be made by Aero Precision, like many others. My PSA lower is an Aero production, and very nice. By the way, I think you can get that exact lower for a few dollars cheaper at AIM. I almost went with that one, but the few dollars that the Palmetto State Armory group buy saved me sealed the deal; $65 shipped!

 

[super-tac]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

Every off brand upper I've ever tried fits my Colt lower...every off brand lower I ever owned fits my Colt upper.

I've owner 5 different setups with off brand parts that would not fit together though.

It seems that most parts are CLOSE to spec, but when you put two CLOSE to spec parts together there are issues.

 

[Hawk45]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

After years of getting "almost" what I wanted for less, I've learned to save a bit more and get "exactly" what I wanted the first time around. Saves you from making more costly upgrades or having to sell off once you decide you should have done it right the first time. And you will.

Cheers,
Hawk

 

[AK10mm]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: the noobie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive decided on the AR Im getting. Im either going to get a RRA Coyote Rifle.

Or im going to get a complete upper from a custom AR maker (specialized Dynamics) and then put together my own lower.

I asked a friend what he thought of just a plain Stag Arms Striped lower and he said no they are crap and told me to get a superior arms striped lower. Can you really go wrong when buying a lower? (im not looking at plum crazy lowers ive heard a lot of goods and very bads about them)

</div></div>

I have a Superior Lower I bought new for $65.....The Finish is Shit and the Stamping looks like it was done by a 5yo.I will be building an AR15 on it for an acquaintance that whines about the cost of everything so I don't know about the tolerances yet.Would I buy one for myself ? Hell No ! Too many good Mfrs out there that take a bit of pride.You will have a lot of $$$$ in a top shelf AR,why put it on a shitty foundation,JMHO.

 

[BgBmBoo]

Re: Does the Lower make or break the gun?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hawk45</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After years of getting "almost" what I wanted for less, I've learned to save a bit more and get "exactly" what I wanted the first time around. Saves you from making more costly upgrades or having to sell off once you decide you should have done it right the first time. And you will.

Cheers,
Hawk </div></div>

And I thought I was the only one who got that and thinks this way!?!?

As for lowers and mix and match uppers and parts....my buddy just bought two SI Defense matched lower and upper sets. He just wanted to use the lower with his DPMS upper. The upper would not fit his lower. The rear take down lug on the DPMS was to big and would not allow the upper and lower to close. So......

Take care,Stan