Range Report Dope, flyer, and shooting right help

[bjordan]

I have my first match this coming Saturday. The match will be shot a 100, 300, and 500 yards. My first time shooting past 100 yards with my new 308 was today. I don't totally understand getting my dope correct yet, and I'm having some flyers at 300 yards, and my all of my groups at 300 yards are about 1.5-2" right. I'm zeroed at 100 yards and when I do my part I shoot groups at 100 in less than .5" consintantly with hardly ever any flyers.

I'll talk flyers first. At 300 yards today I could group 2, 3, and somtimes 4 all within 1.5" but would always have one or two that would be 2-3" outside of the group. The flyers would always be straight down or right or left, never high. Could it be somthing in my reloading process causing these? I'm using win. brass, wlr primers, 43.3g RL-15, shooting 175smk's at 2.810" out of a factory remington 700 xcr tactical long range.

I'll talk shooting to the right next. Why would my groups be around 2" to the right at 300, the groups are dead center of the bullseye at 100? There was absolutely no wind today. I had to click my Sightron 36x with 1/8th clicks 5 clicks to the left to compensate. I've never shot 500 yards so what do I need to do to make hits at 500, There will be no sighters allowed Saturday?

I'll talk dope now. I have my turret zeroed at 100 and had to move it to the 5 and then 3 more clicks to be dead center at 300. Would that be 5.3 moa? I've never shot through a cronograph so have no idea of my fps. I also have never shot 500 so don't know what to do to get it right at 500. The way the match is; is you get 3 shots for score at 100, then 3 shots at 300, and then 3 shots at 500 all at the same target with no sighters.

Sorry for such a long newbie post but any help would be greatly appreciated, and all tips are welcome.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Dope, flyer, and shooting right help

Stop slapping the trigger ... errors not likely observed at 100 yards will be magnified with distance.

I would start with 12 MOA for 500 yards.

Look to the match as a learning experience and not worry about the score, next time you can think about scoring.

PS, your NPA could be off too, to push the shots off target.

 

[RobertB]

Re: Dope, flyer, and shooting right help

Make sure your scope is level with the rifle and that you are keeping the rifle level for each shot as well. Slow and smooth trigger control and you will do fine. Take your time to get your dope right and things will be easier in time

 

[bjordan]

Re: Dope, flyer, and shooting right help

Thanks for the tips sofar. Forgot to mention, all of my shooting was from the prone position with a Harris 6-9" swivel notched bipod in the front and a caldwell rear bag. I've probaby only shot 50 rounds from the prone position, I usually shoot off the bench. My triggeris a 40x trigger adjusted to 1.5 pounds, and I try my best to slowly squeeze the trigger each time and not just pull it. My setup is just for shooting paper. I have an EGW 20 moa rail, with a B square level and with burris signature zee rings with the plastic inserts. My scope is a Sightron Sll 36x42brdwith the targetr dot. My NPA could be the problem idk, I have alot to learn, I usually spend an hour or two per day just using the google search and looking through threads trying to learn as much as possible.

 

[RobertB]

Re: Dope, flyer, and shooting right help

Parralax matters too. If you head position changes then that can give you some movement too. Consistincy is everything (spelling is not)

 

[Notso]

Re: Dope, flyer, and shooting right help

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bjordan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have my first match this coming Saturday. The match will be shot a 100, 300, and 500 yards. My first time shooting past 100 yards with my new 308 was today. I don't totally understand getting my dope correct yet, and I'm having some flyers at 300 yards, and my all of my groups at 300 yards are about 1.5-2" right. I'm zeroed at 100 yards and when I do my part I shoot groups at 100 in less than .5" consintantly with hardly ever any flyers.

I'll talk flyers first. At 300 yards today I could group 2, 3, and somtimes 4 all within 1.5" but would always have one or two that would be 2-3" outside of the group. The flyers would always be straight down or right or left, never high. Could it be somthing in my reloading process causing these? I'm using win. brass, wlr primers, 43.3g RL-15, shooting 175smk's at 2.810" out of a factory remington 700 xcr tactical long range.

I'll talk shooting to the right next. Why would my groups be around 2" to the right at 300, the groups are dead center of the bullseye at 100? There was absolutely no wind today. I had to click my Sightron 36x with 1/8th clicks 5 clicks to the left to compensate. I've never shot 500 yards so what do I need to do to make hits at 500, There will be no sighters allowed Saturday?

I'll talk dope now. I have my turret zeroed at 100 and had to move it to the 5 and then 3 more clicks to be dead center at 300. Would that be 5.3 moa? I've never shot through a cronograph so have no idea of my fps. I also have never shot 500 so don't know what to do to get it right at 500. The way the match is; is you get 3 shots for score at 100, then 3 shots at 300, and then 3 shots at 500 all at the same target with no sighters.

Sorry for such a long newbie post but any help would be greatly appreciated, and all tips are welcome. </div></div>
The best way to get dope for 500 yds is to shoot @ 500 yds. Chronographing loads is irrelevant if you can shoot at known ranges and record what it takes to get the turrets set for that range It probably is too late for your sat match, but for the next time - go out and religiously record the exact setting it takes to get center hits at the ranges you'll be shooting.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: Dope, flyer, and shooting right help

You're trigger is too light, you are probably "tapping it" and not following through as well since you are unsure about NPA, that can be a culprit along with other things.

On 36x Parallax can certainly be an issue, the more power the more of an issue, so that would also account for it

I would recommend checking your zero in the prone as you may also have a cheek weld issue since you are using a high power scope and probably don't know enough about parallax to fix it. So changing your position from bench to prone without knowing, will cause a shift for you.

I am sure it is a combination of problem, mainly due to lack of understanding, being self taught, etc. Reading something without a frame of reference and trying to recreate it are two different things.

Again, I would slow down and take it as a learning experience.

 

[SPAK]

Re: Dope, flyer, and shooting right help

Consider signing up for the online training here at the Hide as well. While it has it's limitations compared to formal instruction or coaching it has been a very valuable resource for myself along with many others.

When I was first getting started,I had some of the issues you described with shots deviating to the right with distance, flyers, etc. Ater learning and properly applying the fundamentals taught in the lessons, many of those problems went away. Along with lots of dry fire and trigger time on the range

 

[Chanonry]

Re: Dope, flyer, and shooting right help

Please don't take this as a smart arsed comment....

Looking at a number of threads on the site, it is amazing how often people talk about 'fliers'. Then start to home in on system defects or load issues, because they 'did the same thing'.

The lesson? When 'missing' recognise it as such and call it by its proper name? Starting from there there is a chance than we can then work out what may be going wrong?

Don't know but there seems to be a generic issue here somewhere

 

[bjordan]

Re: Dope, flyer, and shooting right help

Thanks for all the tips, I'll look into the online training here. I try to do everything the exact same every time. I think I have a pretty good cheek weld and can close my eyes and set up on the gun and open my eyes and be in the right spot. My 100 yard zero is the same when shooting prone and off the bench, haven't shot this gun off the bench at 300 yet. When i shoot the muzzle goes to the left after the shot and I have to reset after each shot, I haven't learned what it takes to get the rifle to slide straight back but plan to try and learn and practice more. My trigger pull may be to light but i don't think so, it's very easy to adjust so I'll turn it up to 3 pounds and shoot some more. I'm still going to the shoot i'll just chalk it up as a learning experience. I feel pretty confident at 100 and 300 though, maybe i can guess and make a hit at 500 too. I'll also be shooting my father in laws BR setup in open class, he's bringing it to the house this afternoon for me to practice with it some so I'll let you how it goes. i wish we could shoot 500 around here somwhere but 300 is all we have to work with, his gun is pretty dialed in though. Thanks for all the responces I really appreciate knowone being a smartarse, like what goes on in alot of forums.

 

[JeffP40]

Re: Dope, flyer, and shooting right help

I am new to this stuff also, and I am finding that if I beleive that the rifle is capable of better accuracy than I am, I am a lot more willing to beleive that I am the problem. I have alway had used factory hunting rifles that I was always trying to get that magical sub-moa out of. Now I have a very good shooting heavy rifle, (I am still figuring out how good), and my thoughts run more toward my technique than any normal rifle error. I have seen the potential of the rifle, and know that when it doesn't do that, it is probably me. That goes for handloading as well as shot control. I only have a couple hundred rounds through it so far, and don't see anything that concerns me yet, but I am sure as I learn, some things will be apparent. My biggest problem right now is that I want to shoot 6.5-120 ballistic tips, and I keep shooting the 100s better. For some reason, the groups with the 100s are much more consistant, although the 120s still are around 3/4". I am going to Townsend this Sat. with some guys to shoot steel at distance, so I should learn an immense amount during that. Not to mention that MontanaMarine will be there to help. I had the pleasure of meeting him a couple of years ago, and I am thinking that there is a lot of info. I could glean from him, as well as a few others that will be there. Like Lowlight says, it will be a learning experience. Have fun with yours, I know I will with mine.

 

[30/50]

Re: Dope, flyer, and shooting right help

Welcome to the frequent flyer club. I've only participated in a few fcsa 1000yd matches, but I can tell you that it happens to the top shooters in the group. It seems that there are as many theories for it as there are shooters. There is nothing more frustrating than working on a great group then blowing one way out, but it happens. I've learned to just accept it and hope for the best. Until you get out and participate there are just no words greater than experience. Go out there have fun and learn, most of the shooters that make the sacrifices to participate in match shooting are more than helpful and its for this reason that I plan on attending matches of different types as long as I'm able to.