Rifle Scopes Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

Jimmy2Times

Jimmy2Times

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Minuteman
Jun 5, 2005
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Amesbury, Massachusetts
#1
Ok, so I'm looking to replace my 3 Leupold MKIV's with USO ST-10's. Now, all my life I have been using 1/4 MOA clicks on my scopes, and a mil dot reticle for range estimation for the last 10 years. So range dope using MOA is second nature to me and I can figure the dope without much thought at all. But now that I'm getting a few USO's, I'm investigating the possibility of going with the Mil/Mil option instead of the Mil/MOA option. Part of me thinks I should just stick with what I know and get the Mil/MOA and that's what I'll probably do in the end. The other part of me wants to get a Mil/Mil but I can't decide. That's where you guys come in. I've been mulling this in my head all day and maybe I'm missing something. So let me setup this hypothetical scenario and you guys can tell me if my thinking is right:

Let's say I range a target at an unknown distance. For the sake of easiness, let's say my target is 600 yards away. My bullet drop for the round I'm using is 109" @ 600 yards. Now, for me to determine my drop in Mils (and not using a MDM), this is what I'm thinking:

3.6" x 6 = 21.6"

109"/21.6" = 5.04 Mils

Considering the scope is set up with 1/10 Mil Elevation adjustments, I would adjust up 50 clicks from my 100 yard zero.

Am I over complicating this? Is there an easier way I'm not seeing?

Thanks, as always, for your insight.

 
#2
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

First off, forget the clicks ok.

Dial to 5 mil and send it.

As you have stated you have used MOA/MIL for a wile now right?

I assume you have DOPE right?

Take that dope and divide it by 3.438

And you are good to go.

This will convert your MOA to Mil, but you should of been doing that now for holds right?

John

 
#3
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

OK, bear with me here.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off, forget the clicks ok.

Dial to 5 mil and send it.

</div></div>

Yeah, yeah, I get this, I was being painfully detailed for the sake of my example.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: J.Boyette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As you have stated you have used MOA/MIL for a wile now right?

I assume you have DOPE right?

Take that dope and times it by 3.438

And you are good to go.

This will convert your MOA to Mil, but you should of been doing that now for holds right?

John

</div></div>

Here you've lost me completely. You're telling me me to figure my dope in MOA and then convert it to Mils? Kinda defeats the purpose of getting a Mil/Mil scope, no?
 
#4
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

Yes, Bill you are exactly correct. I figured I would redo my range cards in Mils if I got the Mil/Mil scope. I guess that's the real answer. Don't ask why I figure my dope the way I do (exactly as you described), I just do. I know it's crazy, I just like figuring it that way.

Thanks for clearing all that up for me. The other post make complete sense now.

Thanks!
 
#5
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here you've lost me completely. You're telling me me to figure my dope in MOA and then convert it to Mils? Kinda defeats the purpose of getting a Mil/Mil scope, no? </div></div>

No.

You take your current MOA dope table and convert it to MILS. Then throw away the old table because it won't be used in the field.

Now work completely in Mils. No more MOA.

The advantage of a Mil reticle and Mil turrets is for spotting impact and making corrections at unknown distances. If you miss and the splash was 1.2 Mils to the left of your target, you just dial 1.2 Mils right and send it. You don't have to know how far away the target it or any conversion factors.
 
#7
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMCmp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The advantage of a Mil reticle and Mil turrets is for spotting impact and making corrections at unknown distances. If you miss and the splash was 1.2 Mils to the left of your target, you just dial 1.2 Mils right and send it. You don't have to know how far away the target it or any conversion factors. </div></div>



Wow, that right there is brilliant. Never thought of that. Thanks very much, you just sold me on Mil/Mil.
 
#8
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ewoaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> why not a moa/moa setup..?
</div></div>

Re-learn ranging with a new reticle? No thanks.
 
#11
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ewoaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> why not a moa/moa setup..?
</div></div>

Re-learn ranging with a new reticle? No thanks. </div></div>

You know your ranging formula?
Try this one:
18" target is 3moa in moa reticle, can you guess the formula without being told?






















size(inches) / moa in reticle= yards (in hundreds)
18/3=6....600 yards.

 
#13
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ewoaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes as sobr pointed out...the moa moa math is much simpler, which is why i suggest it ...none of this 27.778 BS </div></div>

LOL
laugh.gif
 
#14
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

I make the point that mil mil may be the way to go for those of us not in the top shelf demographic...but since you've already got your heart set on a uso, they do have a moa ret, talk to tg, she has one.
 
#15
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">John, you divide your MOA Dope by 3.43 not multiply to get your Mil dope.

<span style="font-style: italic">Example</span> 8 MOA / 3.43 = 2.3 Mils would be your 400 yard dope. So you can simply dial 2.3.

Here is the article from the Home page
Using a Mil / Mil scope </div></div>

Frank,

Thanks I typed in to fast.

you are right and thanks for keeping the point sharp.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ewoaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> why not a moa/moa setup..?
</div></div>

I find a MOA/MOA setup just fine. I think if it was the first out the door back in the 70's it would dominate the shooting world.

But the MOA system has some draw backs.

First off.

1. The numbers are larger and more difficult to work with under stress.
2. The market is still out on IPHY and MOA adjusted knobs and matching reticles.
3. The main issue is, in a training class / match you would be one of the only people talking MOA/MOA all day.
4. The number or turns the elevation knob needs to take past 700yds on MOST OPTICS

The Mil has its down side also. But I think its down side is much less of a issue.

Even the most cheapest optic's like the Sightron SI 3-9x40mm I bought for $119 has the reticle at 36" at 100yds.

The few companys that make MOA reticle's none o them are all 100% IPHY or MOA. Some companys have IPHY adjustment and MOA reticles. Or MOA adjusted and IPHY reticles.

So this is why I do not play with MOA/MOA setups. But thats me.

John
 
#16
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jimmy2Times</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, Bill you are exactly correct. I figured I would redo my range cards in Mils if I got the Mil/Mil scope. I guess that's the real answer. Don't ask why I figure my dope the way I do (exactly as you described), I just do. I know it's crazy, I just like figuring it that way.

Thanks for clearing all that up for me. The other post make complete sense now.

Thanks! </div></div>

If your range cards (dope) are in inches just divide by 3.6 to get you MIL data. Divide by 3.43 if you range cards (dope) are in MOA.

 
#17
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

ok guys quick question. Now im not in the military or le. So heres my question i understand being able to range targets with the mils in a scope, but why mess with the math and stuff when you can use a lazer range finder? im sure that has to be faster and more accurate. or am i completely wrong?
 
#18
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ewoaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> why not a moa/moa setup..?
</div></div>

I have a moa\moa setup, compared to all Mils it sucks, mil mil is so much easier, if I had the money I would send it on for a conversion.
 
#19
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: missed</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ok guys quick question. Now im not in the military or le. So heres my question i understand being able to range targets with the mils in a scope, but why mess with the math and stuff when you can use a lazer range finder? im sure that has to be faster and more accurate. or am i completely wrong? </div></div>

What if.............................................
 
#20
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

what happens when your range finder dies or cant range its the same old KISS. if you can range with your scope you don't have to carry anything else either. another thing if you spend some time with the math you can find an average size like say the average human torso is 36in from waist to top of head find out how many mils it would equal at different ranges and ranging becomes fast and easy dont have to do much math in the field just memory recall
 
#22
Re: Dope math using a Mil/Mil based scope.

i'm sure most of us use range finders in practice, and when we can in the field. but mr murphy, as we all know, has his own way of things. But range finders are great to learn the process, and to double check your own ranging estimations. Once you feel confident that you can successfully mil out a target and come up with a close enough estimation to make a hit, you can wean off the LRF and carry one less item if you so choose.
 
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