Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

[jb1000br]

Dry firing is a great way to become familiar with your rifle...and the easiest way to improve gun handling. I am sure we all need to do it more than we do now (me included!) Dry firing can do nothing but help a shooter do better. After a while, dry firing without a snap-cap can be hard on a rifle though. Well, we finally have a quality snap-cap that works well and will last a long time.

**I also use these to practice bolt manipulation for follow-up shots thru the magazine...

**can also be used for the "ball and dummy" drill to catch you or someone else flinching...

Early in 2009 a fellow shooter and firearms instructor (Eric Kennard at Harbour Arms) started making what appears to be the best snap-cap out there. These beat the snot out of the other options I have seen (others have rubber primers or are made of plastic).

These things are machined from aluminum and made for the long haul, and will cushion you firing pin drop better than the others I have seen.

He initially started making them purely in target cartridges (6BR, 6x47 Lapua, 6xc, 6PPC etc), but I talked him into making some for the "tactical" world as I thought that kind of shooting would benefit the most from increased dry-firing practice. Between LE, active military and tactical match shooters, the benefit would mean more than in any other shooting "discipline."

As far as tactical calibers, he currently makes them in:

223 Rem
6.5x47 Lapua
260 Rem.
308 Win.
300 Win.
338 Lapua

223/260/308:

6mmBR and 6.5x47 Lapua:

6BR Harbour Arms snap cap fired about 50 times:

And if there is demand for others, I am sure he will fill the need.


FOR MOR INFO:

HARBOUR ARMS
http://www.harbourarms.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1

Anywho, just letting you guys know these are out there and of good quality...

Happy Dry-firing!

Jason Baney

 

[Lindy]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After a while, dry firing without a snap-cap can be hard on a rifle though.</div></div>

False. Dry firing will not hurt any modern weapon which is not a rim-fire.

And they should not be used to practice trigger manipulation skills by just cocking the bolt without ejecting the snap-cap, because doing that might become an ingrained habit which the shooter would execute under stress.

I have them, but the only thing I use them for is for practicing magazine changes, to ensure that I get the magazine completely seated, and to get used to the feel of stripping an actual cartridge off the mag and into the chamber.

 

[jb1000br]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After a while, dry firing without a snap-cap can be hard on a rifle though.</div></div>

False. Dry firing will not hurt any modern weapon which is not a rim-fire.

</div></div>


Lindy,

So you have conferred with every action maker to confirm that no damage will occur from extended dry-firing? That's how you can say "False?"

I am sure some actions/firing pin arrangements would be more prone to breakage/damage (2 piece/titanium etc.), but to say "false" across the board is a bit presumptuous.

I have heard of several instances of folks breaking pins when dry firing...(though none were in your AI). It does happen.

When metal hits metal with a hard stop (empty chamber) something has to wear...

Personally, I'd rather give my firing pins at least a little cushion than none at all.

YMMV,
JB

 

[Lindy]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

Well, you know, maybe it does happen to those who don't own Accuracy International Rifles.

But if every shooter who is going to dry fire bought a bunch of those snap caps, I'll betcha that the amount of money spent on them would exceed by orders of magnitude the amount it would take to replace the few firing pins which might break.

It's similar to the extended warranty scam that a lot of people fall for, when economists note that they are a huge waste of funds.

So, how many firing pins have you broken?

And, by the way, when I was using some aluminum caps, the rims were quickly damaged by the extractor.

This is a solution looking for a problem.

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

I also have never experienced a problem due to dry firing without a snap cap.

I myself have never broken a firing pin, or even seen that done. And that is not due to a lack of experience.

Including dry firing Colt, RRA, Sig, H&K, Glock, Beretta, Daniel Defense and DPMS products. Not to mention various AK's, FAL's and such.

I also haven't heard yet from anyone I know of them causing damage to these makes and more.

If you ask me snap caps are mostly a solution for a problem that does not exist.
Unless your practicing the loading, unloading and malfunction drills to get that "real" feeling.

 

[DaveV]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jb1000br</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">After a while, dry firing without a snap-cap can be hard on a rifle though.</div></div>

False. Dry firing will not hurt any modern weapon which is not a rim-fire.

</div></div>


Lindy,

So you have conferred with every action maker to confirm that no damage will occur from extended dry-firing? That's how you can say "False?"

I am sure some actions/firing pin arrangements would be more prone to breakage/damage (2 piece/titanium etc.), but to say "false" across the board is a bit presumptuous.

I have heard of several instances of folks breaking pins when dry firing...(though none were in your AI). It does happen.

When metal hits metal with a hard stop (empty chamber) something has to wear...

Personally, I'd rather give my firing pins at least a little cushion than none at all.

YMMV,
JB </div></div>

This discussion is a non-starter because RO has a standing offer to replace any pins broken by dry firing. Shoot 'em...break 'em...trade 'em in.

 

[jml403]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lindy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I have them, but the only thing I use them for is for practicing magazine changes, to ensure that I get the magazine completely seated, and to get used to the feel of stripping an actual cartridge off the mag and into the chamber.
</div></div>

Since the poor snap caps here are taking such a beating for being a worthless product I just wanted to point out that the above statement says flat out they have a valid use. So even if thats the only use, hey, products have been created to do less. Lindy- thats also what I use them for, most often with handguns.

 

[bohem]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

How are they going to be superior to the product that Tipton already has? The Al rims are going to get eaten by the extractor as Lindy mentioned. Tipton's plastic bodies with brass cartridge bases and spring cushioned springs are already excellent.

I mix snap caps in loaded mags at the range while practicing drills. With a handful of loaded magazines and 1-2 snap caps in some of them, I'm guaranteed a FTF that needs to be cleared before reengagement.

It's especially useful for pistol drills.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=252673

 

[60BDriver]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

I've just been on the phone with Eric Kennard at Harbour Arms discussing these snap caps, amongst many other items that don't pertain here but this guy is super nice and has alot of good things to say about snap cap technology in general and firing pins relative to snap caps.

Problems you will see while dry firing depends upon the action which you have. Your manufacturer will tell you if you can dry fire your rifle or not. Some use interchangeable bolt heads for different calibers and are susceptible to firing pin damage if you dry fire them just once. Most mass production rifles can be dry fired until you're blue in the face with no ill repercussions to the firing pin. Also, those of you who have titanium firing pins might think you have a fighter jet in your bolt but titanium's failure mode is breaking/cracking from being brittle. Titanium is not flexible, which is beneficial in jet wings but not always in firing pins. Also those of you who have turned down your firing pins to smaller diameters for primer consistency are more susceptible to firing pin damage during dry firing. Failure of a shaft that has two diameters is at the change in diameter, by engineering research (BME 1994).

That being said, snap caps are the way to go for some custom actions and titanium firing pins. These snap caps are actually made in Italy. Sorry to some of you but they are top shelf. IMHO better than plastic for life length. Cross section photos on their website show the spring backing to a brass cap which has been reported to have up to 20,000 cycles without failure. Feel is reported better than caps with silicon backing to the brass cap. Keep in mind these are anodized aluminum bodies which is good if you are concerned about your rifles metal. Aluminum is softer and will scratch prior to your actions. The anodized red will come off if your magazine is steel, which is a good thing. Steel would scratch your rifle so this is the longest life snap cap you could get and well worth the money. Some head spacing is very tight which will reduce the life of a snap cap's rim but that is rare.

So, dry firing is usually done for two reasons:

1. You have a custom receiver with a firing pin which will be damaged from dry firing (two piece bolts, turned down firing pins, titanium (very stiff, light weight, BUT BRITTLE)

2. Dry firing is the best practice to reduce poor trigger pull techniques and this will greatly improve your accuracy in competition. Dry firing with an empty chamber is very different than having a cap absorb the pins energy and more acccuately approximates actual firing. Some guys load up 50 snap caps and practice cycling magazines (not my thing but I've seen it).

I've just ordered these from Eric Kennard in .243, all my pistol calibers and .222, which he has to place on order. If you call him and ask, he will most likely be able to get what you need. I also ordered some chrome plated 12 gauge for my Baretta 682 Gold E.

He is full of great information and very knowledgeable. He is a prior criminal investigator and range instructor and is involved in the Port Malabar, FL, Rifle and Pistol club, the last longer range club in Florida.

You won't regret talking with him.

 

[WesP]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

So these are anodized aluminum right? And you do know that aluminum oxide (the anodizing) is one of the hardest materials known to man...so hard its used to make sandpaper and grinding wheels. people dont use aluminum cleaning rods in fear of aluminum oxide and you are delibratly and repeatatly going to stuff something covered in it into and out of the chamber of your match grade barrel....let me know how that works out for ya.

 

[neeley205]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

Some older handguns have a "free floading" firing fin. So repeated dry firing slams the pins retaining ring against the interrior of the slide. This does not happen with a bullet or snapcap.
Pick up a 9mm makarov or some others "I'm not going to list them all" and shake it empty. That jiggleing is firing pin slapping back and forth in the slide,. I use them and like them. I don't see anything wrong with people using them. I do in handguns, especially ones for conceal/carry where I do wont modify triggers (for legal purposes,) and have stiffer trigger pulls than my comp. handguns and need more practice to make sure I'm not pulling shots.

And the aluminum oxide used for the listed industrial purposes is textured. Not polished as these are. It should not only be non issue, it should help prevent burs and aluminum flakes from being left in the chamber.

 

[WesP]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nly205</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Some older handguns have a "free floading" firing fin. So repeated dry firing slams the pins retaining ring against the interrior of the slide. This does not happen with a bullet or snapcap.
Pick up a 9mm makarov or some others "I'm not going to list them all" and shake it empty. That jiggleing is firing pin slapping back and forth in the slide,. I use them and like them. I don't see anything wrong with people using them. I do in handguns, especially ones for conceal/carry where I do wont modify triggers (for legal purposes,) and have stiffer trigger pulls than my comp. handguns and need more practice to make sure I'm not pulling shots.

And the aluminum oxide used for the listed industrial purposes is textured. Not polished as these are. It should not only be non issue, it should help prevent burs and aluminum flakes from being left in the chamber. </div></div>

Polished or not anodizing is abrasive. Im not saying aluminum will create burs im saying alumiunum oxide could wear on the chamber walls and extracter. When machining aluminum carbide cutters are king because of the abrasive properties of aluminum.

 

[proneshooter]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

I have to wonder why anyone hasn't made snap caps out of C260 brass.......

It seems to be the obvious choice.

 

[Rifle Barrel Blanks]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

Jason, do you think he would make a few in .284 win??? I want a couple

 

[Rifle Barrel Blanks]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

Well maybe he has them, Is that 6.5-284 or straight 284?

 

[Linkpimp]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

I’ve got a DTA SRS that had a firing pin brake from dry fires, so it does happen to modern rifles as well. Well at least I know it happen to mine..

I make my own snap caps, it’s really essay (well if you reload)

I’ve gotten hundreds of dry fires out of mine before I feel the need to change out the centers.. Here are some I did for my 300 win.

The Blue Silone works the best as it shows no wear at all..

Personally I try to dry fire at least 20 minuets a day, I find it really helps me.

 

[rrflyer]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How are they going to be superior to the product that Tipton already has? The Al rims are going to get eaten by the extractor as Lindy mentioned. Tipton's plastic bodies with brass cartridge bases and spring cushioned springs are already excellent.

I mix snap caps in loaded mags at the range while practicing drills. With a handful of loaded magazines and 1-2 snap caps in some of them, I'm guaranteed a FTF that needs to be cleared before reengagement.

It's especially useful for pistol drills.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=252673

</div></div>

Those tipton ones suck...I bought a pack and the plastic bodies cracked that week. When that happend the brass base pulled out of the case and sent a spring and other parts into the action/mag area.

 

[remiglockoholic]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

I dryfire with already discharged ammo, what brand silicone are you using for your blue "primer" ?

 

[johndoe]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Linkpimp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I’ve got a DTA SRS that had a firing pin brake from dry fires, so it does happen to modern rifles as well. Well at least I know it happen to mine..

I make my own snap caps, it’s really essay (well if you reload)

I’ve gotten hundreds of dry fires out of mine before I feel the need to change out the centers.. Here are some I did for my 300 win.

What kind of silicone is that?

The Blue Silone works the best as it shows no wear at all..

Personally I try to dry fire at least 20 minuets a day, I find it really helps me.
</div></div>

 

[jbell]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

It looks like Permatex brand silicone to me.

 

[LoneWolfUSMC]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Those tipton ones suck...I bought a pack and the plastic bodies cracked that week. When that happend the brass base pulled out of the case and sent a spring and other parts into the action/mag area. </div></div>

I agree. I destroyed a set of .38spl caps that I was using for revolver speed-loader drills.

If I need snap caps now, I either use A-Zoom or just make up some brass dummies.

My dry fire session today was no-dummies because I wanted to concentrate on trigger pull, not picking up dummy rounds.

 

[BIGGLEE0351]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

I like the A-Zooms myself.

 

[AUJohn]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

NAME the "custom" actions which are so fragile they cannot be dry fired?

Then we can all avoid them.


Silicon is not making ANY difference. Some of the harder plastics might but again, if it's so fragile you have to do this sell is and buy something decent.
Snap caps have no real place for rifle shooting. If you feel better then buy them but it's all in your mind.
Oh, once you get a crater as shown in the photo's it's really not doing anything anyway.
Still, if it makes you happy then good for you....

 

[fdkay]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

What amuses me is the "so what if the firing pin breaks, just replace it" mindset.

What if the firing pin breaks on a call out when you are taking that life saving shot?

If it is strictly a range gun or competition gun, that is one thing.
A work gun is something else.

 

[Andrew Blubaugh]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fdkay</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What amuses me is the "so what if the firing pin breaks, just replace it" mindset.

What if the firing pin breaks on a call out when you are taking that life saving shot?

If it is strictly a range gun or competition gun, that is one thing.
A work gun is something else.</div></div>

Why is that so ammusing? It is true, if it breaks just replace it. If you go through your whole life with a "what if the glass is half empty" attitude you run the risk of holding yourself back.

Dry practice is an important part of any training regiment (Mil, LE, civi, hunter ect..). We need to accept the fact that our weapons and equipment have a life span. The more we use it the shorter the life. My work guns get the piss beat out of them, I dry fire on empty chambers all the time. Some day I may replace the firing pins just to do it but 8 years of weekly dry practice on a Rem700 and I am approaching 15K rounds that I put through the gun plus what ever was put through it before me (it is a 5 digit SN) I feel rather strong about it holding up. Though if the firing pin does break on that "life saving shot" well.... I think it was just meant to be.

 

[splean]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

I use snap caps to dry fire. I like having to load and chamber as if I were using live ammo. At the range I mix live ammo and snap caps to see if I flinch and to deal with FTF. These snap caps are made of aluninum and I have noticed the rims are getting worn by the extractor. I like the one made by linkpimp and may go that route. At any rate, I find some use for it. To each their own.

 

[fdkay]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

The point, somehow missed, is if you can prevent it or reduce the possiblity, why wouldn't you?

 

[Pat M]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: rrflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Those tipton ones suck...I bought a pack and the plastic bodies cracked that week. When that happend the brass base pulled out of the case and sent a spring and other parts into the action/mag area. </div></div>

I agree. I destroyed a set of .38spl caps that I was using for revolver speed-loader drills.

If I need snap caps now, I either use A-Zoom or just make up some brass dummies.

My dry fire session today was no-dummies because I wanted to concentrate on trigger pull, not picking up dummy rounds. </div></div>


Yep, both my 308 ones didn't last a month (crap)

 

[Red Ryder]

Re: Dry Firing Practice...NEW snap-caps are sweet!

Wow, this is the quintessential "hijacked thread."