DT SRS-A2 or GAP Crusader

[cah300]

Long time reader first time poster. Will be purchasing a new rifle in the next couple of months. I have to narrowed down to the DT SRS-A2 in 6.5 CM for $3800 or the the GAP crusader in 6.5 for $4085.

My main interest in the SRS is the idea of a multi caliber rifle system. I have no experience with a bullpup but I think I would adjust to the ergonomics. I do use a standard 308 bolt action at work so hopefully this wouldn’t mess me up.

The GAP crusader is obviously a more traditional rifle Which I’m more comfortable with and is extremely accurate and well made.

Rifle will be used primarily for ringing steel. Pros and cons of each from anyone with experience with these would be great. Thanks in advance.

 

[6brshooter]

Aiat. Easy to swap calibers, better layout than bullpup, and it's an ai. Shop on the EE here and they pop up for 3500-4000

 

[brianf]

Have a few customs
Have a dt covert 308
Have axsa and a axmc

In order
Accuracy international
Custom
Dt

The dt just feels cheap in comparison
Customers are very nice and you get to pick what you want
AI is what everybody says they are, and if you want a diff cartridge just call up and a barrel comes in the mail
Problem I have with customs is that my tastes have changed and they are a sunken cost
I don't really sell rifles that often but customs don't hold value in comparison

All 3 shoot as good as I can shoot them

I am a chassis guy though

 

[cah300]

Been looking at the Axmc but I’m not seeing those prices. Most of what I see is $6000 and up.

 

[brianf]

If your not going to shoot magnums (started looking at a 6.5) buy the ax308
The mc is bigger and heavier for no reason

 

[Supersubes]

Been looking at the Axmc but I’m not seeing those prices. Most of what I see is $6000 and up.

Get an AT, not AX308/AXMC.


I’m a long time AI guy, and owned many of them. I just got a DTA, and I love it. Very cool system imo.

I’d put the crusader last. Frankly I’d pick another custom before id do a crusader personally. Their team rifle perhaps, or something on a lone peak or bighorn TL3, etc.

 

[wade2big]

Am I ever lost when it comes to AI rifles.

 

[Bradu]

Since you are considering a Desert tech for switch barrel capabilities, are you planning on long action calibers as well? That is where you really see the benefit of the DT. The main reason I have one is because I don't get to shoot 1000+ yards very often so buying a dedicated rifle didn't make sense. They are a nice rifle and I switch back and forth between the DT and traditional style rifles with no issues.

The only downside is that I haven't been impressed with how hard it can be to get in touch with them for parts or service. Some of their dealers aren't much better either.

 

[OverWatching]

My company is actually getting rid of all 14 DTs we use for work and going AI. There are a number of reasons but the biggest is that we had a large government contract tell us we couldn't use DT due to an issue with their parent company and the IRS. Add to that we all know who that "parent" company is and the legal problems they have had and I would recommend getting an AI now. Just remember they are coming out with their new models in a year so I'd take that into consideration. Please understand I've used DTs for 5 years in multiple countries and they are super accurate. However I'm pretty happy to get our new AXMCs.

 

[goosed]

Be advised this is an AI fan boy forum. No "which rifle" thread will ever go without at least one or more AI recommendations. They are absolutely worth a look in your price range and among the best rifles, but don't buy all the hype around here. It gets a bit thick some times.

GAP doesn't get a whole lot of love here any more. They absolutely make great rifles, but you do pay a bit of a premium for their well known name. The Crusader is based on Defiance actions which are a nice quality action though not my personal favorite. They were last years... well... maybe two years ago's fashion statement in PRS competition so once again not much love on this forum. McM's A5 is a very solid stock that... yet once again... is a bit dated and not the hottest fashion statement. So if you only want the latest and greatest I would pass on this one. If you want a very solid rifle and are willing to pay a bit more for the name on the side of the rifle it's actually a very solid package.

DT is a whole other animal. They are incredibly unique and their caliber change system, imo, is best money can buy. There are very few rifles that draw attention at the range the way a DT does. That can be good or bad, depending on your personality. However, there are also a lot of drawbacks such as the ergonomics are just plain weird compared to all other rifles. Running the bolt back to your shoulder is unnatural for most. I haven't personally had hands on the A2, but the word from sources I trust is the trigger is more military than precision trigger. It sounds like the A2's suffer from the same gritty/binding bolt issues as the A1 despite the claim the bolt flutes would fix it. Fit/finish could and probably should be better in this price range. Despite all it's flaws my A1 is among my favorite as it's so different from my other rifles.

 

[cah300]

Since you are considering a Desert tech for switch barrel capabilities, are you planning on long action calibers as well? That is where you really see the benefit of the DT. The main reason I have one is because I don't get to shoot 1000+ yards very often so buying a dedicated rifle didn't make sense. They are a nice rifle and I switch back and forth between the DT and traditional style rifles with no issues.

The only downside is that I haven't been impressed with how hard it can be to get in touch with them for parts or service. Some of their dealers aren't much better either.

How is the fit and finish? I see reviews all over the board from great to terrible.

 

[OverWatching]

How is the fit and finish? I see reviews all over the board from great to terrible.

It is all over the place. We have had so many I can speak with absolute certainty when I say some were ready to rock right out of the box, others wouldn’t even cycle a bolt. The good news was they all got sorted out with DT in a reasonable time frame.

 

[cah300]

My company is actually getting rid of all 14 DTs we use for work and going AI. There are a number of reasons but the biggest is that we had a large government contract tell us we couldn't use DT due to an issue with their parent company and the IRS. Add to that we all know who that "parent" company is and the legal problems they have had and I would recommend getting an AI now. Just remember they are coming out with their new models in a year so I'd take that into consideration. Please understand I've used DTs for 5 years in multiple countries and they are super accurate. However I'm pretty happy to get our new AXMCs.

How would you compare the two as far as quality goes? My price was wrong in first post. I can get the A2 for $3380 and the AIAT for $4700. Is the AI that much higher in quality?

 

[Masked]

DTA Gen 1s were solid rifles, but something always felt like it was missing...The A1s are a remarkable improvement over the gen 1s.

Most that have contracts had the Gen 1 - I’d give the A1 a chance before you make a decision.

I had an aXMc up until a few months ago - Sold it to get my business started - Once I get going, I’m just going DTA - More customization plus the 5.56/300blk option.

 

[OverWatching]

How would you compare the two as far as quality goes? My price was wrong in first post. I can get the A2 for $3380 and the AIAT for $4700. Is the AI that much higher in quality?

That’s a fun question to me as we abuse all our rifles. Our DTs have seen use in multiple countries and they did really well in sand and rocks. The action got pretty gritty if dirty. However our biggest issue was the side panels. They use different screw lengths for all of them and they won’t torque to their specs afterwards. What this means is if you take it apart you will have screws sticking out afterwards. all of ours have this issue. On the AI we don’t have panels on the side so there is no comparison. The bolt always ran smooth and they never broke. I will say that the DT bolt is amazingly simple and I know I can fix it in the field. Not as much for the AI. The quality on the AI is far better, no doubt, is it worth thousands more if you life is t on the line, only you can answer that. When you are using them for work I do believe the AI gives me more piece of mind.

 

[FALex]

I would say anything other than a DT for the simple fact that barrels are about 1000.00-1300.00 depending upon where you get them from. Maybe this is different now, but I don't think it is. That's one of the main reasons I haven't gotten into one.

 

[cah300]

That’s a fun question to me as we abuse all our rifles. Our DTs have seen use in multiple countries and they did really well in sand and rocks. The action got pretty gritty if dirty. However our biggest issue was the side panels. They use different screw lengths for all of them and they won’t torque to their specs afterwards. What this means is if you take it apart you will have screws sticking out afterwards. all of ours have this issue. On the AI we don’t have panels on the side so there is no comparison. The bolt always ran smooth and they never broke. I will say that the DT bolt is amazingly simple and I know I can fix it in the field. Not as much for the AI. The quality on the AI is far better, no doubt, is it worth thousands more if you life is t on the line, only you can answer that. When you are using them for work I do believe the AI gives me more piece of mind.

Ha! Uncle sam says my life is only worth defending with a rem 700. This will be a purely fun gun for me.

 

[Bradu]

How is the fit and finish? I see reviews all over the board from great to terrible.

The two I have are pretty good. Don't expect the bolt to be smooth like a custom action and you will be fine. Where you located at, maybe you can get your hands on one if you post in the desert tech thread to see for yourself.

 

[Bradu]

I would say anything other than a DT for the simple fact that barrels are about 1000.00-1300.00 depending upon where you get them from. Maybe this is different now, but I don't think it is. That's one of the main reasons I haven't gotten into one.

I think Benchmark was $850 last time I priced one. With the extensions being reusable, I just kind of figured that the first few cost more but after that will be in line with other custom barrels.

 

[cah300]

The two I have are pretty good. Don't expect the bolt to be smooth like a custom action and you will be fine. Where you located at, maybe you can get your hands on one if you post in the desert tech thread to see for yourself.

Just moved to WA. Been calling around but haven’t found anyone that has one in store yet.

 

[TMR137]

I would say anything other than a DT for the simple fact that barrels are about 1000.00-1300.00 depending upon where you get them from. Maybe this is different now, but I don't think it is. That's one of the main reasons I haven't gotten into one.

ES Tactical can spin up new barrels for under $900 (caliber and goodies depending). If you send them your old barrel and reuse the barrel extension its a couple hundred cheaper. All in all, more than an AI replacement but cheaper than a custom smith job on a new barrel.

 

[FALex]

I think Benchmark was $850 last time I priced one. With the extensions being reusable, I just kind of figured that the first few cost more but after that will be in line with other custom barrels.

I figured there's probably been some decrease since I looked at them (about 2 years ago). Can any smith do them, they just need the extension?

 

[Bradu]

I figured there's probably been some decrease since I looked at them (about 2 years ago). Can any smith do them, they just need the extension?

Yeah, there are prints with specs on it for the threads and profile so any Smith should be able to do it. Chad @longrifles said they might be doing their own barrel extensions with the new machine so I'm looking forward to that. Not sure if it will be any cheaper but reamer selection and turn around time will be awesome. Benchmark's lead time sucks so I never ordered one from them.

 

[cah300]

That’s a fun question to me as we abuse all our rifles. Our DTs have seen use in multiple countries and they did really well in sand and rocks. The action got pretty gritty if dirty. However our biggest issue was the side panels. They use different screw lengths for all of them and they won’t torque to their specs afterwards. What this means is if you take it apart you will have screws sticking out afterwards. all of ours have this issue. On the AI we don’t have panels on the side so there is no comparison. The bolt always ran smooth and they never broke. I will say that the DT bolt is amazingly simple and I know I can fix it in the field. Not as much for the AI. The quality on the AI is far better, no doubt, is it worth thousands more if you life is t on the line, only you can answer that. When you are using them for work I do believe the AI gives me more piece of mind.

Do you know if the A2 has the same screw problems? I know they made some changes to barrel locking system.

 

[OverWatching]

Do you know if the A2 has the same screw problems? I know they made some changes to barrel locking system.

Yep, I have a brand new A2 (we are getting rid of it too sadly) sitting here. The screws are the exact same. I talked with one of their engineers about it and he said it has to do with how they want to make the system. The issue is without a chart, or being super careful, you will never know where the screws go once you take them out. My guys all have to label each screw just in case. The torque issue is just due to a soft shell that bends a little too easily. Again, not something you can’t live with, but it’s a major design flaw.

 

[brianf]

Be advised this is an AI fan boy forum. No "which rifle" thread will ever go without at least one or more AI recommendations. They are absolutely worth a look in your price range and among the best rifles, but don't buy all the hype around here. It gets a bit thick some times.

GAP doesn't get a whole lot of love here any more. They absolutely make great rifles, but you do pay a bit of a premium for their well known name. The Crusader is based on Defiance actions which are a nice quality action though not my personal favorite. They were last years... well... maybe two years ago's fashion statement in PRS competition so once again not much love on this forum. McM's A5 is a very solid stock that... yet once again... is a bit dated and not the hottest fashion statement. So if you only want the latest and greatest I would pass on this one. If you want a very solid rifle and are willing to pay a bit more for the name on the side of the rifle it's actually a very solid package.

DT is a whole other animal. They are incredibly unique and their caliber change system, imo, is best money can buy. There are very few rifles that draw attention at the range the way a DT does. That can be good or bad, depending on your personality. However, there are also a lot of drawbacks such as the ergonomics are just plain weird compared to all other rifles. Running the bolt back to your shoulder is unnatural for most. I haven't personally had hands on the A2, but the word from sources I trust is the trigger is more military than precision trigger. It sounds like the A2's suffer from the same gritty/binding bolt issues as the A1 despite the claim the bolt flutes would fix it. Fit/finish could and probably should be better in this price range. Despite all it's flaws my A1 is among my favorite as it's so different from my other rifles.

....sounds like you are a AI fan boy.... ?

 

[FALex]

Yeah, there are prints with specs on it for the threads and profile so any Smith should be able to do it. Chad @longrifles said they might be doing their own barrel extensions with the new machine so I'm looking forward to that. Not sure if it will be any cheaper but reamer selection and turn around time will be awesome. Benchmark's lead time sucks so I never ordered one from them.

Well, as luck might have it, someone just offered up an SRS A1 in trade for my Sig 553. I’m hoping it’s at least chambered in a 6/6.5 selection. I might become a DT owner just yet. Funny how this stuff works. I’m gonna have to talk to my smith about the chambering aspects. I’m off to try to find those specs for the extension...if any of you dudes knows where they are, please PM them over to me.

Thanks all.

 

[Bradu]

Well, as luck might have it, someone just offered up an SRS A1 in trade for my Sig 553. I’m hoping it’s at least chambered in a 6/6.5 selection. I might become a DT owner just yet. Funny how this stuff works. I’m gonna have to talk to my smith about the chambering aspects. I’m off to try to find those specs for the extension...if any of you dudes knows where they are, please PM them over to me.

Thanks all.

I should have them on my phone, give me til tonight when I'm back at the hotel

 

[Masked]

So, I had the AXMC for a while - It's built like a brick shit-house and I used it almost daily.

What I will say is that, it's a pig. I love the trigger. Barrels are expensive - My Tooley's were around the $1200 mark. 308 bolts were scarce - I waited 2 years for mine...

The DTA is a much lighter chassis. Just as solid. I agree the screw thing is "weird", but it's not a dealbreaker. Barrels are ballpark the same price...

Quite frankly, like I said in my previous post, I'm going DTA this round just because of the caliber conversions.

I wish AI had done a 223/300blk bolt for the AT - Then I'd own an AT, but alas - Here we are.

Both are solid rifles, it's just a question of preference.

 

[OverWatching]

This goes beyond build quality but the biggest reason we are getting rid of ours is we can't single load the DTs. If we need to switch from our standard rounds to a penetrator you have to change the whole mag (also not as easy.) They messed up on the 6 round single stack mags and the way it interfaces with the system. To be clear, they were super accurate rifles and did everything we asked of them. However I have to humbly (and hopefully nicely) disagree and say the AI is just built better. It's heavy and I don't want to hump it around a mountain side, but it is built better.

 

[cah300]

This goes beyond build quality but the biggest reason we are getting rid of ours is we can't single load the DTs. If we need to switch from our standard rounds to a penetrator you have to change the whole mag (also not as easy.) They messed up on the 6 round single stack mags and the way it interfaces with the system. To be clear, they were super accurate rifles and did everything we asked of them. However I have to humbly (and hopefully nicely) disagree and say the AI is just built better. It's heavy and I don't want to hump it around a mountain side, but it is built better.

I saw something about the single load issue. It gets hung if you don’t guide it in. I’m use to slapping it in closing for a follow up.

 

[Masked]

This goes beyond build quality but the biggest reason we are getting rid of ours is we can't single load the DTs. If we need to switch from our standard rounds to a penetrator you have to change the whole mag (also not as easy.) They messed up on the 6 round single stack mags and the way it interfaces with the system. To be clear, they were super accurate rifles and did everything we asked of them. However I have to humbly (and hopefully nicely) disagree and say the AI is just built better. It's heavy and I don't want to hump it around a mountain side, but it is built better.

In my classes, we'd swap from tracers, to incendiary, back to penetrators...The guys with the DT's had the same issues that everyone else did. I understand the spring is stronger in the single stack, but I mean, it's like a glock mag vs a sig mag...

Do I understand your point in regards to the magazine issues? I do, but apparently with the A2's, it's been cleared up. Again, not 100% sure, but I haven't experienced any major issues previously, either.

The DTA is a MUCH LIGHTER system. I've always thought the screw thing was "weird" and they could've uniformed all of the screws, but they didn't...Maybe they did with the A2's?

Quite personally, having instructed on both platforms - I prefer the DTA.

Do I agree that it's built better? The AI is obviously more solid, but I still prefer the DTA's length advantage over the AI.

 

[OverWatching]

I'm short and I completely agree on the length issue! My spotter just reminded me the rifle will be a javelin again, that was the main reason I went DT in the first place. And the AI is a boat anchor as well. However that build quality has helped me in other countries when the DT side panels cracked, but an AI had nothing to crack. Most people won't use them anywhere near as roughly as we do, but it helps show where fail points can be on both rifles. As for the new A2s they have the exact issues the old ones had, nothing got cleared up at all. We are not happy with the decreased rail space in fact which they did to make it lighter. I like the new ones went Mlok, but otherwise we all prefer the old A1s. As for the single loads I have 24 snipers working for me and none of us can do it. I have heard it's possible, and I have spent a lot of time trying, but the feed lips seem to prevent it. On the AI I can slap in a new round much more easily. In the end I don;'t think you go wrong with either one, and I'm clearly in a bad place on DTs due to our situation, but I truly am excited to get back using AIs. (Although I hear Barret is coming up strong, give them 10 years and we may all want them.)

 

[Masked]

Barrett nearly completely redid the MRAD - I had an early one and 5+ years later we were STILL waiting in conversions...That being said, they’re supposed to be incredibly solid now.

 

[J-Fonz]

I think there are a lot of us who own all three (AI/DT/custom). Each has its benefits and drawbacks.

In my opinion:
Accuracy is splitting hairs between them.
Bolt manipulation is AI.
I find the DT pretty easy to shoot standing, which I like for hunting.
Custom - you get exactly what you want.

 

[goosed]

....sounds like you are a AI fan boy.... ?

Yeah, I'm just not the type to be a Ford, Chevy, Mopar, or AI fan boy. Too damn analytical to pretend there aren't compromises made in every single rifle I've ever handled in one form or another.

Don't get me wrong I can appreciate things for what they are and if the right opportunity presents itself I would gladly add another AI to my collection, but some of the rhetoric around here about how a mechanical device is perfect, will never break or is immune to failure because it's brand X or Y does make me shake my head and laugh on the inside.

 

[OverWatching]

Everything breaks. If not I'll send one of my Marines over and they will break it for you. . It seems that the heavier the rifle is the less is breaks though. So either get strong quick or buy a repair kit.