Night Vision Dual Band vs Dual Tube WP (if you could only get one)

[AerialView72]

Searching for opinions, information, or insights on choosing between dual band or dual tube nvg. This will be my sole NVG devices for the next 3-5 years. I am a hobbyist using the devices for shooting/competition, hiking, exploring, etc. First NVG loadout ever.

PVS14 L3 WP & iRay MH25 on KVC bridge
VS
MOD3 Bravo Modular Goggle L3 WP

PVS14 & iRay - Understanding you cant "use" both at the same time, is it still a wider spectrum experience? Are thermal monoculars & pvs14 paired hill billy civ fusion or trending towards a sort of norm? China skeet has a lot of hype.

MOD3 Bravo Modular Goggle L3 WP - Ok no articulation but you can separate the pods and have two 14s essentially, but is that what most people do? Give your friend/wife 4k piece of kit to go play with seems to create nervous feelings, is this a feature not often realized?

Looking for any and all opinion on ownership or using these devices.

Thanks

 

[wigwamitus]

I'm a dual-bander for most of my use cases ...

==
You needa 14 to see the laser first and foremost ... so the 14 is required ...

Some sorta thermal up there helps you see the critters way better, especially in the woods.

Thermals also help see just about everything else better ... most times ... except in snow, ice. Then the 14s can see better ... especially snow, snow has a lot of luminosity. And thermals can still see the critters, but they can't see the terrain, we call it "sea of grey" ... so you can loose your orientation and your distance estimating landmarks.

==
For "minimalist" ... I can still go dual band if I take a coti. And a 14+coti even works on a night cap.

==

 

[AerialView72]

I'm a dual-bander for most of my use cases ...

==
You needa 14 to see the laser first and foremost ... so the 14 is required ...

Some sorta thermal up there helps you see the critters way better, especially in the woods.

Thermals also help see just about everything else better ... most times ... except in snow, ice. Then the 14s can see better ... especially snow, snow has a lot of luminosity. And thermals can still see the critters, but they can't see the terrain, we call it "sea of grey" ... so you can loose your orientation and your distance estimating landmarks.

==
For "minimalist" ... I can still go dual band if I take a coti. And a 14+coti even works on a night cap.

==

Definitely the way I’m leaning, thanks for the input. Considered IR Patrol but heard it’s to big for normal use with a pvs14. Any monocular you really prefer?

 

[EWS6]

Definitely the way I’m leaning, thanks for the input. Considered IR Patrol but heard it’s to big for normal use with a pvs14. Any monocular you really prefer?

wait for the nvision nox. coming out soon

NOX Thermal Monocular, 18mm lens

nvisionoptics.com

 

[Bravo6niner]

The IR patrol is very doable on a helmet. Maybe not the lightest option out there but they work just fine on a helmet. The NOX looks to be a good option as well

 

[AerialView72]

The IR patrol is very doable on a helmet. Maybe not the lightest option out there but they work just fine on a helmet. The NOX looks to be a good option as well

Hmm, some places say NOX 6,700ish that’s a bit of a leap in price, but it’s weapon mountable I suppose. Has anyone had any major issues with the China skeet tho?

 

[Bravo6niner]

Hmm, some places say NOX 6,700ish that’s a bit of a leap in price, but it’s weapon mountable I suppose. Has anyone had any major issues with the China skeet tho?

Depending on the model of the patrol it can be weapon mountable as well. The older model patrols were 1x vs the newer ones at 1.5x. 1x is nicer for helmet mounting. Not sure the 19mm nox has official numbers out yet but looks to be 1.1x I think.

 

[wigwamitus]

As far as head mountable thermals I've had

Q-14
ODIN
Patrol
Skeet
Breach
COTI

Skeet is small, light has great image. Has HPR heads up display and a laser pointer. And can use UNV battery plug if you make yourself a step down cable. The skeet is my primary these days.

Patrol is larger has great image, has accessory rail which can take a raptar or a radius, and a 3x magnifier and be a long distance thermal range finder, which is what I often use mine for.

And mounting the patrol on a skeet mount (with the dove tail side) you can leave the range finder on it !

So the patrol is very flexible! The new ones however have switched to 1.5x ... which can work ... but some people might have an issue with it. But its my #2 head mounted unit right now.

The ODIN, was my primary for 2016-2017 ... its 80% PVS-14 form factor ... so in those days with the absence of more flexible mounts ... it just fit right up there on the IC bridge, right beside, the 14. And it was highly usable ... Could PID critters at quite a distance. Superior to COTI, Breach and even 640 Q-14.

Breach. I got the breach earlier this year and still have it ... and I'm surprised I can use it to navigate in the woods .. I can detect cattle out to 600yds ... it is not useless ... and at $1980 street price ... its a good backup unit. And is my #3 unit right now.

Q-14 ... I got this when it first came out in 2015 ... and it was a bit of a disappointment ... somehow the image sucked at any distance. I mostly used it as a dedicated thermal weapons sight on my .22LR as a ratter and it was GREAT in that role !

COTI ... the coti is unique because its not primarily a head mounted spotter. Its more of a "aid to the 14 when shooting with the laser" ... and I've gotten critters with it that I could not have gotten without it .. .because it could see them in the vegetation when the 14 couldn't. But the 14 could see the laser while the coti couldn't ... but between the two of them, I got the critter. That's the magic of fusion.

==
I've handled a Nox-18 prototype and they do seem like a perfect balance between the new trijicon skeets (street price $13k) and the patrols ... street price $6400 (M300W). Not sure what the Nox-18 street price will be ... seems like the MAP will be $6,200. Street price of $5,400 thus not impossible.

 

[E-Tool]

I want predator vision, not thermal, the one that sees technology.

I’m excited for whatever replaces both thermal and night vision, I can’t recall what it was called, but there is something n development that can theoretically see through walls.

 

[Choid]

Dual wp all day.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Dual band is wizard vision and is the shit if you want to both navigate and want to know what critters are around you (two or 4 legged).

Strictly nav dual WP tubes are better so you can focus them slightly different and get a little better depth perception. You’re also able to see stuff closer to your feet with one to keep you from breaking your face on a rock, hole, or fallen branch and then one focused a little further out to see what you’re walking towards.

Dual WP tubes with COTI’s would probably be the shit but I’m not sure how that would work as I never messed with anything but a single green PVS-14 with a COTI and not way would I take that over a WP dual band setup.

 

[Strykervet]

COTI units for $3k right now.

Every now and again the cat gets loose and I really wish I had some kind of thermal to make hunting her ass down a bit easier because she's the no-shit hide and go seek world champ.

I'd really like the COTI since it's probably the best we'll get but I'm hoping it sticks around like the 30's did for a while. Don't really wanna get one now. And I'm not so sure I'd like dual 14/thermal or dual thermal. Dual WP yeah or any 14 and COTI. I would suspect COTI would work better with a green tube but I could be wrong --orange does contrast best to green though.

Should have splurged on that PSQ20A when I had the chance --they were for sale for a short time right around the time the B's came out. Sure it was $20k and what, 4lbs.? But I wonder what a street legal one would go for today?

PSQ36 is just the titties. Those ever become available and I'll just take out a loan I guess. Get an FN2000 and a wet suit and be Sam Fisher.

 

[Strykervet]

Dual band is wizard vision and is the shit if you want to both navigate and want to know what critters are around you (two or 4 legged).

Strictly nav dual WP tubes are better so you can focus them slightly different and get a little better depth perception. You’re also able to see stuff closer to your feet with one to keep you from breaking your face on a rock, hole, or fallen branch and then one focused a little further out to see what you’re walking towards.

Dual WP tubes with COTI’s would probably be the shit but I’m not sure how that would work as I never messed with anything but a single green PVS-14 with a COTI and not way would I take that over a WP dual band setup.

Problem it looks like with dual tubes and COTI is that COTI goes on the bottom, somewhere in front of your mouth it looks like... Doesn't really seem like an option for me.

COTI and a 14 or dual WP --both have advantages and drawbacks.

 

[AerialView72]

Depending on the model of the patrol it can be weapon mountable as well. The older model patrols were 1x vs the newer ones at 1.5x. 1x is nicer for helmet mounting. Not sure the 19mm nox has official numbers out yet but looks to be 1.1x I think.

I had asked a reputable company and seller of these devices about the 1x and 1.5x and the salesman told me they have always been the same base magnification, somewhere between true 1x and 1.5x. He continued that Electro Optics probably rounded down to 1x and Trijicon rounded to 1.5x for whatever reason. idk if this is true, never held a Patrol but they seem very cool.

need some nox video asap

 

[TheHorta]

COTI units for $3k right now.

Every now and again the cat gets loose and I really wish I had some kind of thermal to make hunting her ass down a bit easier because she's the no-shit hide and go seek world champ.

I'd really like the COTI since it's probably the best we'll get but I'm hoping it sticks around like the 30's did for a while. Don't really wanna get one now. And I'm not so sure I'd like dual 14/thermal or dual thermal. Dual WP yeah or any 14 and COTI. I would suspect COTI would work better with a green tube but I could be wrong --orange does contrast best to green though.

Should have splurged on that PSQ20A when I had the chance --they were for sale for a short time right around the time the B's came out. Sure it was $20k and what, 4lbs.? But I wonder what a street legal one would go for today?

PSQ36 is just the titties. Those ever become available and I'll just take out a loan I guess. Get an FN2000 and a wet suit and be Sam Fisher.

I’ve had a couple 20A’s. They pop up occasionally in the $7K range. They’re not that heavy at all. Problem is, they don’t really do either NV or thermal all that well. I’d say NV is sub-1500 FOM performance. Thermal is 320, which works, but I’d say it’s Breach-level performance.

Searching for hidden kitties is the domain of thermal — hidden anything, really. When I run 31’s with an eCOTI, it feels like a huge step DOWN from running dual Skeets. The eCOTI just can’t compare. I’m not a door-kicking CQB master, and I can drive a Ranger or Quad at full speed just fine on dual Skeets, and my gun will have a UTC or CRATOS on it, so the laser is less useful, negating my need for NV.

That’s just me. We don’t get snow here in Bama, so my dual tube NV is used only for stargazing and NV classes.

 

[Mortalpawn]

I have a COTI on a single PVS-14 and really like it. Its pretty good thermal fusion. The COTI does not hit your face or mouth and is not an impediment if you are shooting with a laser-illuminator. It would not work well trying to shoot through the 14 and a red dot, but that's not a good way to aim in any case. It also does not add much weight.

The COTI itself is excellent at picking up even small animals at distance, and then you can light them up with your illuminator to make a positive ID. If you have a good illuminator it will burn through the COTI image easily and provide good detail on your target. If you have it set up the COTI is almost invisible until it lights up a thermal target, so you can use it full time and it won't impede your regular night vision.

The three different modes (thermal, patrol and outline) give you quite a bit of flexibility and it is one button to change modes. Thermal view gives you a thermal image overlay, patrol highlights thermal hot spots and outline will outline thermal hot spots. Patrol mode works best for moving and scanning but at times it is interesting to go to thermal.

Also the COTI and monocular leaves your primary eye open which I find very useful for gauging ambient light and also in the case that I get lit up and have to switch to white light. One problem with binoculars (or even mixed thermal/IR) is if you get lit up close range by white light and need to go to white light yourself you really need to lift the binoculars to do anything. This could be bad in a firefight.

The COTI has some disadvantages - since it feeds into the PVS-14 it is monocromatic. Like all thermal devices, it eats batteries pretty quickly. Its very hard to find a battery extender, and it is not a high res 640 pix device. But for cheap fusion it works well and in many ways is ideal for passively spotting thermal targets that you can then light up with an illuminator for positive ID.

I do have some friends who run the PVS-14 and iRay MH25 (or similar) on left/right eye. Some people's brains can handle and fuse the two very different images, while others struggle with it. Unfortunately it is hard to test your brain without buying or borrowing one. Those who have tried the iRay MH25 really like it and tell me it is comparable with much more expensive options. It is still much lower resolution than a PVS-14 so you are still using it mainly to identify targets you will then light up with an IR illuminator to get positive ID.

 

[WhereNow&How]

I’ve had a couple 20A’s.

Horta, it would be easier to list what you haven't had.

 

[AerialView72]

I have a COTI on a single PVS-14 and really like it. Its pretty good thermal fusion. The COTI does not hit your face or mouth and is not an impediment if you are shooting with a laser-illuminator. It would not work well trying to shoot through the 14 and a red dot, but that's not a good way to aim in any case. It also does not add much weight.

The COTI itself is excellent at picking up even small animals at distance, and then you can light them up with your illuminator to make a positive ID. If you have a good illuminator it will burn through the COTI image easily and provide good detail on your target. If you have it set up the COTI is almost invisible until it lights up a thermal target, so you can use it full time and it won't impede your regular night vision.

The three different modes (thermal, patrol and outline) give you quite a bit of flexibility and it is one button to change modes. Thermal view gives you a thermal image overlay, patrol highlights thermal hot spots and outline will outline thermal hot spots. Patrol mode works best for moving and scanning but at times it is interesting to go to thermal.

Also the COTI and monocular leaves your primary eye open which I find very useful for gauging ambient light and also in the case that I get lit up and have to switch to white light. One problem with binoculars (or even mixed thermal/IR) is if you get lit up close range by white light and need to go to white light yourself you really need to lift the binoculars to do anything. This could be bad in a firefight.

The COTI has some disadvantages - since it feeds into the PVS-14 it is monocromatic. Like all thermal devices, it eats batteries pretty quickly. Its very hard to find a battery extender, and it is not a high res 640 pix device. But for cheap fusion it works well and in many ways is ideal for passively spotting thermal targets that you can then light up with an illuminator for positive ID.

I do have some friends who run the PVS-14 and iRay MH25 (or similar) on left/right eye. Some people's brains can handle and fuse the two very different images, while others struggle with it. Unfortunately it is hard to test your brain without buying or borrowing one. Those who have tried the iRay MH25 really like it and tell me it is comparable with much more expensive options. It is still much lower resolution than a PVS-14 so you are still using it mainly to identify targets you will then light up with an IR illuminator to get positive ID.

Have you looked through the iRay? If so would you consider getting a COTI instead of an iRay or its worth the extra $$$? Will Civs be blessed with eCOTI soon again? Waiting on PVS14 but not sure where I want to enter the Thermal Realm (Nox, Patrol, COTI, iRay)