Hi members os the hide. I'm in the process of making a purchase decision on a scope for my hunting rifle? I run a Remington 700 .308. This is also my SHTF rifle as well. I am looking at scopes with MOA reticles, particularly Nightforce, as they are less expensive than the mil dot versions. Can these reticles ve used in a tactical situation for ranging man-sized targets should the need arise. Or, Should I just go with a mil/mil setup?
Rifle Scopes Dual Purpose: MOA Reticle for ranging?
- Thread starter 308Shooter1911
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Re: Dual Purpose: MOA Reticle for ranging?
Absolutely! The MOA based reticle can be used very effectively for ranging small targets to large objects at varying distances.
Absolutely! The MOA based reticle can be used very effectively for ranging small targets to large objects at varying distances.
Re: Dual Purpose: MOA Reticle for ranging?
I say yes, but take it with a grain of salt because I have just started learning about MOA vs. MIL
Maybe I'm issing something but to me it just seems like MOA is easier, granted I don't understand the diffrence in Milradian and mildot system....YET.
Seems like to me, from what I have read only, is that MOA is easier becuase if you know or average the height of your target in inches and use your reticle you should be good. I know that might not be the most accurate way but in my mind I feel this is best when you have limited engagment time.
I may be wrong so don't flame me for it. Just what I think with what little I know right now.
I say yes, but take it with a grain of salt because I have just started learning about MOA vs. MIL
Maybe I'm issing something but to me it just seems like MOA is easier, granted I don't understand the diffrence in Milradian and mildot system....YET.
Seems like to me, from what I have read only, is that MOA is easier becuase if you know or average the height of your target in inches and use your reticle you should be good. I know that might not be the most accurate way but in my mind I feel this is best when you have limited engagment time.
I may be wrong so don't flame me for it. Just what I think with what little I know right now.
Re: Dual Purpose: MOA Reticle for ranging?
MOA or mils can be used for ranging, they are both just different units to measure a portion of the arc of a circle.
The math or more accurately the geometry can get a little cumbersome because we are talking about arcs of a circle and everything has a pi function in it; however, for most practical purposes a mil = 1 cm at 100m and one MOA = 1 inch at 100 yds so if you know the size of an object you can estimate its range based on how big it is in the reticle.
In use, mils are easier because everything is in multiples of 10, with MOA the math gets more complicated. Get a "mildot master", it is a slide rule for use with ranging reticles, it is worth it if even just to play with.
In the age of laser range finders I'm not sure how practical ranging with the reticle is for the average guy, but it is nice t know how to do it.
For follow up shots the whole conversation becomes pretty moot when you have a scope where the reticle matched the knobs, you simply look at where the first shot went, measure the distance off target with the rulers in front of your eye and dial a correction, or hold off, in which case it doesn't matter what your knobs are.
MOA or mils can be used for ranging, they are both just different units to measure a portion of the arc of a circle.
The math or more accurately the geometry can get a little cumbersome because we are talking about arcs of a circle and everything has a pi function in it; however, for most practical purposes a mil = 1 cm at 100m and one MOA = 1 inch at 100 yds so if you know the size of an object you can estimate its range based on how big it is in the reticle.
In use, mils are easier because everything is in multiples of 10, with MOA the math gets more complicated. Get a "mildot master", it is a slide rule for use with ranging reticles, it is worth it if even just to play with.
In the age of laser range finders I'm not sure how practical ranging with the reticle is for the average guy, but it is nice t know how to do it.
For follow up shots the whole conversation becomes pretty moot when you have a scope where the reticle matched the knobs, you simply look at where the first shot went, measure the distance off target with the rulers in front of your eye and dial a correction, or hold off, in which case it doesn't matter what your knobs are.
Re: Dual Purpose: MOA Reticle for ranging?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for most practical purposes a mil = 1 cm at 100m and one MOA = 1 inch at 100 yds</div></div>
So, first off, .1 mil = 1cm @ 100m. 1 mil = 10cm @ 100m.
Second, your error if you say 1 mil = 10cm @ 100m or 3.6" (1/10 yard) @ 100 yards is 0.00003%. This is not enough to bite you on the ass.
Your error if you say 1 MOA = 1" @ 100 yards is 4.7%. Under some circumstances, this IS enough to bite you on the ass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for most practical purposes a mil = 1 cm at 100m and one MOA = 1 inch at 100 yds</div></div>
So, first off, .1 mil = 1cm @ 100m. 1 mil = 10cm @ 100m.
Second, your error if you say 1 mil = 10cm @ 100m or 3.6" (1/10 yard) @ 100 yards is 0.00003%. This is not enough to bite you on the ass.
Your error if you say 1 MOA = 1" @ 100 yards is 4.7%. Under some circumstances, this IS enough to bite you on the ass.
Re: Dual Purpose: MOA Reticle for ranging?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maladat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for most practical purposes a mil = 1 cm at 100m and one MOA = 1 inch at 100 yds</div></div>
So, first off, .1 mil = 1cm @ 100m. 1 mil = 10cm @ 100m.
Second, your error if you say 1 mil = 10cm @ 100m or 3.6" (1/10 yard) @ 100 yards is 0.00003%. This is not enough to bite you on the ass.
Your error if you say 1 MOA = 1" @ 100 yards is 4.7%. Under some circumstances, this IS enough to bite you on the ass. </div></div>
I wasn't giving the guy dope on a shot, I was trying to give a non-confusing answer w/o getting into IPHY or that the measurements subtend an arc and we are measuring in a straight line and the further you go out the bigger the error gets, he's never used a ranging reticle, and if he gets one, and actually starts trying to shoot over 300 yds then he'll have to learn a lot more than what he's getting on this thread. (search is your friend)
The Bohr model of the atom is bullshit too, but they still teach it in basic chemistry and physics because it is sufficient to get a basic understanding before you get into cloud theory.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: maladat</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">for most practical purposes a mil = 1 cm at 100m and one MOA = 1 inch at 100 yds</div></div>
So, first off, .1 mil = 1cm @ 100m. 1 mil = 10cm @ 100m.
Second, your error if you say 1 mil = 10cm @ 100m or 3.6" (1/10 yard) @ 100 yards is 0.00003%. This is not enough to bite you on the ass.
Your error if you say 1 MOA = 1" @ 100 yards is 4.7%. Under some circumstances, this IS enough to bite you on the ass. </div></div>
I wasn't giving the guy dope on a shot, I was trying to give a non-confusing answer w/o getting into IPHY or that the measurements subtend an arc and we are measuring in a straight line and the further you go out the bigger the error gets, he's never used a ranging reticle, and if he gets one, and actually starts trying to shoot over 300 yds then he'll have to learn a lot more than what he's getting on this thread. (search is your friend)
The Bohr model of the atom is bullshit too, but they still teach it in basic chemistry and physics because it is sufficient to get a basic understanding before you get into cloud theory.
Re: Dual Purpose: MOA Reticle for ranging?
Im not really talking about the mil vs moa measurements...More so the reticle itself. They give you references for different size game and varmints. i was wondering if in a SHTF situation would this be practical for ranging and engaging man-size targets.
Im not really talking about the mil vs moa measurements...More so the reticle itself. They give you references for different size game and varmints. i was wondering if in a SHTF situation would this be practical for ranging and engaging man-size targets.
Re: Dual Purpose: MOA Reticle for ranging?
My point was that saying .1 mil = 1cm @ 100 m is fine.
Telling someone who is trying to get into long range shooting that 1 MOA = 1" @ 100 yards is not good because it is WRONG and someone who is trying to get into long range shooting should have all the relevant information before making a decision on what system to use. 1 MOA = 1.047" @ 100 yards and the difference can be important and is a pain to keep track of (at least compared to not having to with the mil system).
If people told me 1 MOA = 1" @ 100 yards, I bought a bunch of expensive equipment based on the MOA system, then found out that wasn't actually true and I had to keep track of a 5% difference, I would be pissed.
This obviously does not hold true with a scope based on IPHY rather than MOA, but the comment was made about MOA.
To 308Shooter1911: There is nothing you can do with a mil reticle that you can't do with a MOA or IPHY reticle the numbers are just a little different. Pick a system and use it. If you shoot recreationally or competitively in a tactical setting the likelihood is that most of the other shooters will be using the mil system. If you shoot with a group of people find out what most of them use and think about picking that so that if they call corrections for you, you don't have to convert.
My point was that saying .1 mil = 1cm @ 100 m is fine.
Telling someone who is trying to get into long range shooting that 1 MOA = 1" @ 100 yards is not good because it is WRONG and someone who is trying to get into long range shooting should have all the relevant information before making a decision on what system to use. 1 MOA = 1.047" @ 100 yards and the difference can be important and is a pain to keep track of (at least compared to not having to with the mil system).
If people told me 1 MOA = 1" @ 100 yards, I bought a bunch of expensive equipment based on the MOA system, then found out that wasn't actually true and I had to keep track of a 5% difference, I would be pissed.
This obviously does not hold true with a scope based on IPHY rather than MOA, but the comment was made about MOA.
To 308Shooter1911: There is nothing you can do with a mil reticle that you can't do with a MOA or IPHY reticle the numbers are just a little different. Pick a system and use it. If you shoot recreationally or competitively in a tactical setting the likelihood is that most of the other shooters will be using the mil system. If you shoot with a group of people find out what most of them use and think about picking that so that if they call corrections for you, you don't have to convert.
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