Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

[hrfunk]

I enjoy using duracoat, and I've coated several firearms. I have a persistent problem, though. When I remove the male stencils they peel off the underlying base coat. It doesn't seem to matter how much I scrub with Scotchbrite and Tru-strip, I always seem to have this problem to some degree. Any suggestions?

HRF

 

[Truck10]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

How long are you letting it dry between coats??

 

[hrfunk]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

On the rifle I was working on this past weekend, I finished applying the base coat at around 10:30 Thursday night. I didn't apply the stencils until about 8:00 Saturday morning. So the base had 30 hours or so of curing time. Even so, I still had major problems with the base coat peeling off the receiver and free float tube.

HRF

 

[taseal]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

How do you prep?

 

[SuckitTrebek]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

send it to a pro

 

[hrfunk]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

Scrubbed the whole thing with Scotchbright and trustrip. Sanded the barrel ( polished stainless), and float tube. Interestingly, the stock (Magpul PRS), and the barrel had zero problems. The upper receiver was the worst, and the float tube wasn't much better. Scope rings and bipod are perfect. All parts got the same prep, except I didn't take sand paper to the aluminum receiver, was that my mistake?

HRF

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

How did you remove the stripper residue?

 

[Longshot38]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

What I found worked best for prep work is acetone and steel wool. As for the barrel being polished stainless that can present a small issue. Were it be I'd either parkerize it first of use some primer. Duracoat is some tough stuff but in the end it is still paint. Thus prep work determines the final product.

 

[daybreak1199]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

Are you mixing the Duracoat properly? It is a 2 step process, a hardener and the the paint. I have also had good results with preheating the area to be treated to about 120 Deg.

 

[hrfunk]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

I was under the impression that trustrip does not leave a residue. It seems like the sanding I did on the barrel really worked. I used some fairly aggressive sand paper on it (I felt like I was abusing my rifle) but in the end, the duracoat stuck to it fabulously! The receiver and the float tube where i had problems were both standard mil-spec anodizing. I'm beginning to think I should have used something more aggressive to rough those surfaces, I'm just a little nervous about getting too aggressive on the alloy. In the end, I fixed most of the areas, and those I couldn't pretty much blend into the camo pattern. I finished off with the matte clear duracoat, that REALLY helped. You can still see the areas where the duracoat didn't adhere well if you look; but you have to look. I won't feel the need to point those areas out to anyone.

HRF

 

[smschulz]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

It probably wouldn't hurt to blast with 120 Alum Oxide first.
Cerakote and GunKote both require/recommend it.
I would suspect Duracoat would benefit too.
YMMV

 

[Searcher]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: daybreak1199</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are you mixing the Duracoat properly? It is a 2 step process, a hardener and the the paint. I have also had good results with preheating the area to be treated to about 120 Deg. </div></div>

Heating the parts prior to painting made a huge positive difference in the finished product for me also.

 

[RogueHk]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

get a sand blaster! they are cheap and you can get a desktop sized one if you dont want the big harbor freight model like i have. every duracoat painter i know uses a blaster. Use 100 grit - 120 grit aluminum oxide.

I'm actually going into the business. Your surface doesn't have enough microscopic divots in it to hold paint. That's why people sandblast,

 

[daybreak1199]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

When I use KG heat cure, I degrease the area twice with acetone then I do a final cleaning with rubbing alcohol and a fresh clean shop towl. One thing that has really given me more control over the finish is using an airbrush. you can literly use it to "fog on" a finish coat that will give it more of a gritty textured feeling. Lately I have been finishing my painted work with flat clear, adds to the protection and when "fogged on" it gives it a little more texture.

Brownells has some texture based epoxy that I use on the palm swell, spray it on, let it dry then paint over it for a really aggressive textured look and feel. I use masking tape to lay down a perimeter then shoot a light coat of the grit spray. remove tape when done and you have a nice sharply defined textured area.

 

[monteboy84]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

Duracoat also takes a looong time to fully cure. When I was using Duracoat I'd leave guns apart for a week before reassembling them, it seemed that any sooner and the paint wasn't hard enough yet.

-matt

 

[taseal]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RogueHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">get a sand blaster! they are cheap and you can get a desktop sized one if you dont want the big harbor freight model like i have. every duracoat painter i know uses a blaster. Use 100 grit - 120 grit aluminum oxide.

I'm actually going into the business. Your surface doesn't have enough microscopic divots in it to hold paint. That's why people sandblast, </div></div>

WHat he said. you pretty much have to do this process. it's also harder to do it on anodized alum I have heard (like your lowers)

This is why I don't do it myself. I don't own a sand blaster. if it wasn't for that, I'd be painting my own stuff.

there is a video on youtube posted by brownells that shows you how to properly do it step by step

one of the things they mention is spraying it down with anti greaser that leaves NO oily residue. they use something called ETK I believe. I think brake cleaner will work well too

 

[cheshier2]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

You need to heat cure between coats. Stick it in your oven for 3 hours at 325*. You would have to sandblast off the first base coat if you do this. Or let it air dry for at least 10 days..

 

[sgtbutt]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

It was just December that I did my 6.8 SPC. I did the lower and upper, the PRI tube, and Scope in Aug Green and left everything else black. For the reciever I used non chlorinated brake cleaner for get the majority of grime off followed by Dura's Trustrip. For the scope I used scotchbrite and Rubbing Alcohol and just the Alcohol on the tube.

That is how I've done the several other guns I've Duracoated and haven't had problems with. The brass deflector on my SBR and behind the ejection port on my 700 where brass hits has chipped down to metal, but nothing major. THe scope on my 700 I had to redo but once I used the scotchbrite on it the templates were golden.

 

[Ark. Trapper]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

You were on the right track when you sanded the barrel and should have done the same thing to all parts. I use a blasting cabinet but for trigger guards on shotguns and some other parts I don't want to take the time to completely disassemble I just hit em with some 320 grit then acetone. A lot of people that are really picky about their guns think they're gonna mess up their stuff by sanding it but you're painting it anyway so it don't make a damn what it looks like under the paint! Had a guy in the shop a couple weeks ago that nearly passed out when I pulled a $1800 Benelli SBE II out of the blasting cabinet! Ha Ha!

 

[hrfunk]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

I don't know the first damn thing about sand blasting. Is it difficult?

 

[Ark. Trapper]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

Not hard at all. Hell I could train a monkey to do it in less than 30 minutes!!! The cost of a cabinet and compressor is the biggest setback for most folks.

 

[pyplynr]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

I use 220 grit sandpaper the rinse and wipe down with acetone. Then pre-heat and paint away, I wait about 6 to 8 hours before I apply stencils.

 

[hrfunk]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

Thanks for all the advice guys. I was talking to a coworker who used to be a mechanic. He too said blasting is pretty easy. I think I'll look into getting my own cabinet (Oh No! more to learn!)

HRF

 

[Steyrman13]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

how much does it usually cost to do an AR?

 

[hrfunk]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

The cost depends upon which pattern you choose and how much duracoat is required. For most of them it's around $100 with the lauer stencils ($65 by themselves). You can save some meoney if you use stencils from other manufacturers or make your own. The other thing you have to know is that it's a time consuming project. Start to finish on my last AR was the better part of a week That included a good deal of disassembly, surface prep, spraying, cure time, etc. (as well as working around work and family schedules)

HRF

 

[cheshier2]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

I charge $265 to camo an AR15. This includes return shipping costs.

 

[Steyrman13]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

Do you have to have a special airbrush set-up or just a touch-up gun?

 

[majohnson2]

Re: Duracoat, What am I doing wrong?

1st is clean and then clean more, small brushes for all the pockets, angles, and hard to get to spots. Those are spots that gun oil seeks and will destroy your work. In order for paint to stick you need to break up those smooth surfaces, or the finish won't stick. Mix everything throughly and accurately and use thin coats. This allows the thinners to flash off and dissipate. To heavy of a coat and thinner become trapped in your finish coats , you will end up the a soft and uncured finish. To the point that using a finger nail you can indent the finished surface. Two other important points most over look, temp and humidity. To cold, or damp thinners won't flash off correctly and your finish it ruined.

If your can find a piece of scrap steel, go through all the prep steps. Then apply the finish, letting it completely dry. Once its dry brake out some sand paper and lightly sand the finish, if its completely dry you'll end up the sanding dust. If its not dry, the finish will ball up under the sand paper as you sand. It easier to test your finish on some scrap, then to finish your gun and then find out you have a problem.