Effective Immediately, No Politics Period !

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Lowlight

Lowlight

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Minuteman
    • Apr 12, 2001
    35,949
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    Base of the Rockies
    www.snipershide.com
    #1
    This site is now 100% a NO POLITICS ZONE.

    Sniper's Hide will no longer be entertaining any political discussion, no political jokes, no local, national or international political talk of any kind.

    This includes discussion related to Second Amendment topics,

    Zero Tolerance...

    If you make a political post you will be banned, if you use the name of a politician in a post or make a flippant off the cuff comment that is political in nature, you will banned.

    People cannot follow the rules, and feel the need to go outside of the rules as this board has had from the beginning so we are ending the practice of tolerating any type of political talk.

    The purpose of this site is to discuss shooting and shooting related topics, not engage in conspiracy theories and to valid the endless chain emails being send out. If you want to talk politics, or find out whether the information on the treaty is true or if the government is buying up your ammo, please go some where else.

    Since the beginning Sniper's Hide enjoyed a NO POLITICS Policy and we relaxed that policy to help protect our 2A rights. Since that time people have constantly gone beyond this scope and engaged in Anti Government Speak, this will not be tolerated. We pride ourselves in helping and supporting members of our Military and Law Enforcement and this type of discussion has hurt their participation as well as put us in an awkward position. No longer...

    Consider this your one and only warning moving forward if you start a political post it will be removed and your account will banned. If someone else starts a political post before a moderator catches and you encourage and contribute to that post you will also be banned. Period, No Exceptions.

    This site is for the Serious Tactical Marksman... we hope you continue to use it in that way.
     
    #11
    I will miss the 2A section, it was very informative and helped get the word out as to how to help fight the things you felt were wrong.
    I also understand Lowlights frustrations with it, there were some really off the wall posts on there.
    Everyone keep up the good fight, Rights will prevail. Regards, FM
     
    #12
    Well that just sucks. I too will miss 2A, as it for the most part kept me up to date as to the condition of our hobby around the country. I am a huge supporter of the military and hope I never ever offened anyone that served or is serving. Many times I have asked my uncle who was Marine recon vet who served in Vietnam, and also a Sargent Major in the Army when he retired a couple years ago about stuff before I posted. Sadly our hobby does involve politics, there is no way to get around that fact. When crap was going down in Colorado I believe this site helped to get the word out.
     
    #13
    Without a doubt it did help out a bunch getting people in this area lined up as to where to go to help.
    I don't have to go ask some Old Vietnam Vet about things as I am that Old Asshole.
    We have about 55 Good LEOs that are helping us out here in Colorado with the recently passed laws and I will do any thing I can to help them.
    It is bad that the thread went south with trash posts as it was doing a lot of good as far as finding out about current legislation and what is being done about it.
    It was also good that people could compare what is going on in your state as well as others.
    I will miss it and hope to find something like it as far as being able to help. It was a good thread until some fucked it up.
    If you can post links I would like that.
    With that said, I certainly do understand Lowlights frustrations with it. Regards, FM
    I hope this doesn't get me banned.
     
    #14
    Frank,

    Can we have the posts/links to useful things like the Ruger 'mail all your representatives' back please? I used those a LOT when it was critical to write in. There were some other links that were good for seeing all 2ndA related bills being proposed. Perhaps a bulletin board of useful links with no space for commentary?
     
    #15
    Although, I will miss the 2 Amendment section I understand why Frank shut it down. There has been to many threads started where Frank chimed in, to tell people to stop this crap and instead of stopping they challenged Frank. Good call Frank.
     
    #17
    Shooter McGavin said:
    Although, I will miss the 2 Amendment section I understand why Frank shut it down. There has been to many threads started where Frank chimed in, to tell people to stop this crap and instead of stopping they challenged Frank. Good call Frank.
    Click to expand...

    Yep - we only have ourselves to blame :( It's a damn shame that we couldn't keep things on-topic, despite repeated warnings from Frank and the mods.
     
    #20
    I'm not surprised. I'm not pleased, nor am I displeased. In truth, I feel nothing, and I simply regret that matters have come to this extreme. I can not, and I will not offer any judgment. We exist here at the owner's pleasure, as individuals, and as a site. I worry this this will have a negative effect on how freely posters will express themselves, I know I'm going to need to bite my tongue a bunch. Be that as it may, I support this change, I just hope the site gets beyond all this quickly and successfully. Like them or not, I intend to obey the rules.

    Greg
     
    #21
    I agree with what was posted above about having some of the quicklinks to Ruger, Hornady, and other manufacturers. We all enjoy this site, and we love this hobby. But apparently some don't realize that Forums like this will be/are a endangered species. And there IS a battle going on focused towards our hobby. I for one, would like a forum where I can keep up with the latest info on our 2nd amendment. And I would do that through this site alone. I don't sit hours and hours in front of a computer talking about the same ole remington700 or GA Precision guns. I probably will find another forum where there IS an active 2nd amendment and/or politics section. Because like it or not, we may NOT be able to talk about guns, magazines, ammo because our voices are being silenced. And we just may end up losing rights.

    SO until then, if I decide to ask a remington700 question or same ole (Which is better scope) question, Ill be keeping up with current events elsewhere. Because (In my opinion) those issues are FAR more important to me than just turning a blind eye to current events.
     
    #28
    954825_408487782592343_1011945740_n.jpg

    Seriously.
     
    #31
    CypressJeff said:
    Looks like glocktalk has both an active Gun Control and Political forum at Glock Talk - Powered by vBulletin

    It would be nice to see some familiar names show up there. I found them a couple of nights ago while researching a 10mm glock.
    Click to expand...

    thanks i will check that out - i was actually going to ask if anyone knew of a good place we could all go to get our 2A info / organize to protect it --- I also used this forum as pretty much my only resource for it and seemed to be the best all around place to educate ones self on current affairs pertaining to 2A even learning about it and how to properly debate with others about it

    i dont agree with not having it around...epically on a gun forum...but not my site

    this will still be the BEST place to come to learn how to shoot
     
    #32
    Bye...

    I may just just give some extra incentives to the guys posting links and suggestions to other sites. So don't be surprised later if your account no longer works.

    I made it pretty clear I am happy to work with much less here at this point. It's about shooting, plain and simple.
     
    #34
    I think this is good, if you look at a lot of other shooting forums with political and off topic sections there is a lot of posts in those sections and not much any value elsewhere.

    after all its "sniper's hide" not "whinge about politics hide"
     
    #35
    Having owned and run two sites before, I hold with Frank completely. It's his forum, his football and if half the members either left or were banned, it would still be a hell of a fine resource. Sometimes in forums and email serves you have to have a purge to get back to the core constituency. I got my ass chewed by Frank for exactly the kind of post he is trying to get rid of when I first showed up and have enjoyed staying on the rails ever since.

    Hell of a forum. Lots of real shooters with beaucoup experience. Let's don't fuck it up.

    Big talk from a newbie, I know but...
    Viper1
     
    #36
    Foul Mike said:
    I will miss the 2A section, it was very informative and helped get the word out as to how to help fight the things you felt were wrong.
    I also understand Lowlights frustrations with it, there were some really off the wall posts on there.
    Everyone keep up the good fight, Rights will prevail. Regards, FM
    Click to expand...

    +1 wish it hadn't come to this
     
    #37
    I won't be a part of this. This is a cool site, lots of good info. The 2ndA section was fine. Sure lots of wankers wanking along, but if you don't like it you don't have to go to that section.
    I suppose it's OK to say something that is wrong about rifles, but not OK to say something that is true about politics.
    Excellent standards.

    RONALD REAGAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    bye
     
    #38
    Blame me. Go ahead and put the blame all on me for the 2nd Amendment Forum being taken off. The owner of this site did, so I guess I should be fair game for the lynch mob crowd, with the complimentary zeal of a man who lost all common sense due to ill founded bloodlust, with the added benefit of both a bucket of tar, and feathers. Take one thing I say, twist it to your own liking, and use that as evidence that something is a cancer eating at the core of a healthy body, and condemn it without seeing it as for what it truly was, as quite possibly being the bastion, if not less than an enlightening read on freedom from many different users on this site. Some people read different things than other people, some pay more attention to the good they read, some pay more attention to the bad they read.

    Think the 2nd Amendment forum was less in importance than what I was talking about? Sometimes it was.
    Think the 2nd Amendment forum was more in importance than what I was talking about? Sometimes it was.

    It was what you took out of it. Same as ANY part of this site.

    My offer always stands on becoming a Moderator though. Many people will scoff at this idea simply because they could, and the idea of instantly pouncing on someone in some animalistic, primal rage(absent intelligence) fills the need, but are they the ones willing to help when the true problem is quite clear? No! Of course not! Why would they put their time into something they get for free, and obviously don't care about? I mean it is after all an internet forum, is it not, or is it quite possibly more to some of us because of what we put into it?

    I don't care about money. I don't care about prizes, or other trivial shit.

    I want to be a Moderator for one simple reason.

    I care about the Hide.

    (I've tried to be as clear as crystal with this, if anyone still doesn't get what I am saying then send a PM. If you still don't get it, and feel you the need to blast me for it publicly, go ahead. I'm sure many members, including myself would love to see your true colors.)
     
    #41
    Meh.

    No 'general' poltics is fine. Leads to whining, class warfare, attacks, etc. im cool with that.

    No 2A support or activism on a site dedicated to (and dependant on) 2A rights is more counterproductive than any of it.

    Its your site and your rules and whatever and I dont give a shit about politics, but no 2A I feel is not a good thing in the long term.
     
    #42
    We all are looking for information that will improve our marksmanship skills thats how I found this site in the first place . The experience found within these forums from trigger time and years dedicated to the craft amount to thousands of years of experience that helps all shooters from the nobe to the experienced old timer .We are all here seeking greater knowledge and insight from other like minded people whose opinion we trust and respect . So that said if we cannot discuss issues that would deny us the enjoyment of that very sport with the people we trust and respect the most where else ? Lowlight where do you go to discuss the issues that are important to you regarding the sport you love and the politics that affect us all ? . Or do you just bite your tong and not discuss such things on line ?.Given your outspoken nature I doubt that . Things don't always fit neatly in a box and it's hard not to seem like an elitist snob while trying to better articulate the issue . I Ask again where do you go ?, Where should we go ? At the end of the day Your Site... Your Right ... Don't make it right .There was nothing wrong with 2A and bear pit don't want to discuss it don't go there if you cant handle it . Neuf said ill miss it didn't come here for it in the first place but it will be missed BTW you should also shut down the other discussion forums that don't have anything to do with shooting . After all I'm just a Novice Field Ballistic Engineer and know not of these things.
     
    #43
    I am not happy, in much the same way as LL is not happy. Like many here, LL included I am certain, I believe the defense 2nd Amendment is crucial to our activities and beliefs here. But, like LL, I don't condone the heat and animosity its debate engenders. There is no line one can draw that will preclude the anger, the vitriol, the threats, even. These things can never be part of The 'Hide. So if we are to indulge them, it must be done elsewhere.

    We populate a public forum, with many eyes upon us. They all have different reasons for watching. Some among our number, for better or worse, are constrained against participating in activities that could be construed as undermining their own command structure. When we preach dissent, we endanger their livelihood, and maybe even their freedom. I find that enough, by itself, to accept arbitrary curtailment of political discourse, as distasteful as that phrase comes to my own mouth.

    Put up, shut up, or find the door.

    Greg
     
    #44
    Lowlight said:
    Bye...

    I may just just give some extra incentives to the guys posting links and suggestions to other sites. So don't be surprised later if your account no longer works.

    I made it pretty clear I am happy to work with much less here at this point. It's about shooting, plain and simple.
    Click to expand...

    I mean no disrespect here. I can certainly understand your frustration.

    You will no longer allow 2nd amendment discussion. Does it make much sense to threaten the very people that are trying to steer people to the web sites that have 2nd Amendment debate? Does it make sense to threaten anyone with expulsion when they are just trying to assist other people on your web site? What would you do if all of your members felt the same way you do at this time and all completely left your web site. It is possible your less compliant individuals will find a new home on another site that has been suggested and self expel.

    You may not be happy but why take it out on your entire community. May I suggest that you rid the site your less cooperative and work with the remainder of your members without the threats.
     
    Last edited:
    #45
    It's very simple, people cannot control their emotions and the membership was all too willing to play into it.

    This site works best when it moderates itself, that was not happening, warning after warning. Instead of stopping people from crossing the line, they were pushed even further until it was considered common place and OK... IT WAS NEVER OK ON SH. The Old Members know that, this site had a No politics rule from the beginning. I eased that to include 2A discussion as part of the activism I believed in, I also laid out guideline and very few followed them or bothered to heed to warnings. Even in threads where I repeated myself I was pushed back against and ignored.

    Regards to guys pointing to other sites, please it is quite clear, they are not doing it to help, they doing so in a way (they think) to punish me. They don't like what I did, and they are "gonna show me" and point people somewhere else... these guys are the very problem you are talking about ridding the site of instead of punishing all as you said. AGizz you are propping them up and defending their actions the same exact way you defended their political posts even when it violated the rules. Doesn't matter the rules don't apply to them, they want it their way, and my rules are irrelevant to them.

    How many times do I have to say, no conspiracy theories, not to threaten politician by name, not to put in writing the emotion and anger on here... how many times did you read just this. What was needed a link to Snopes to help...

    I hate to tell you too many are more than happy to disrespect the rules on here or how we handle them. They feel any moderation to keep the discourse positive is an attack on their rights and that it was ok to attack us for it. We delete posts and immediately we get push back. No respect, so saying no disrespect, I put no faith in, I feel just in this thread you see the disrespect plain and clear and you're all too happy to defend that.

    If it was removed the problem members the cycle would just repeat, and like I said, at this point I don' t care how many leave. I want this site to be the place we can talk about shooting, not a place you use to push the extremes of your political views, because it was getting extreme, or are you gonna defend and deny that ? I was very specific on what I allowed, nobody listened, and none of you helped me moderate that... if you can't see that maybe you were a bigger part of the problem then you realize.
     
    #46
    All I am saying is you do not have to threaten them. I am not defending anyone just pointing out the threats do not look good from the site owner. Just cut the poster off period. They have been warned when they became members. They know it and we know it. Just cut them off and they will find another site to ply their wears on. Something like "conspiracy theory" who knows. It is possible they would be able to start their own site named "2nd Amendment Conspiracy Theory" who knows.
     
    #47
    Believe me they are gone, look at the difference in their name... and I read it as you absolutely defended their words.

    Again you miss the point, where does it end, how many more moderators do I need when the members refuse to put these people in check here.

    Did you ever see an off the track political post get stopped by the members putting the brakes on the guys pushing the extremes ? I didn't ? Instead they just get worse until we have to remove it, then we are the bad guys. Never once did I see a member say, "hey that is not helpful or needed to be put in writing on here so knock it off" Instead you guys continuing down the road acting the fool, anyone looking from the outside in would just point to this place and say, "these guys are just as unreasonable and extreme, see we told you" Then the day so kook shoots someone with a bolt action and has links to SH on his home computer they'll be able to connect these written views to his criminal actions.

    You guys don't have to look at the big picture, you can just spout off and walk away. If something happens I don't want any media outlet to have any ammunition against the community as a whole because I let people talk about shooting politician, or promoting extremist views. Pretty simple, we even tried to provide examples, copies of letters we wrote, etc. If you bothered to pay attention during the CO Gun Legislation you saw an example of positive political activism, nobody paid attention but those who were part of it, the rest continued on their merry way.
     
    #48
    FWIW, some type of bulletin board or similar with the latest proposed Gun Legislation / 2A fights would be helpful to folks that use this site. Maybe something where a mod ran across a story, posted a link and snippet of the story. Members could still use this site to stay informed with current 2A fights.
     
    #49
    The internet is big enough for everybody. SH is Lowlights house. If we wish to dwell here, we do it by his rules. Just like if you came to my house, you live by my rules. Personally, I'd rather not be associated with the cereal flavors out there(fruits loops and flakes). I doubt that anyone coming to this site is wondering what the majority of its members think of the 2nd amendment.

    Im kinda simple though

    Ryan
     
    #50
    Thank you! I agree completely! I came to this site learn about precision shooting. There's enough politics on all the other forums I'm on as it is. If I wanted to talk politics, I'd go join boremetodeath.com
     
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