Ejector marks with starting loads?

[AlarmedTrout]

Hello all,

Fairly new to the whole reloading thing and haven't had any issues so far. The other day I added the FANTASTIC Tikka T3x TacA1 to the collection. Loaded up some rounds and hit the mountains! Pretty much right out the gate with my starting loads I started having ejector marks on the brass. About 8/10 would come out with marks. My load workup I chose to start with is using starline brass, cci #400, Hornady 140gr eld match bullets, and powered by h4350 starting with 39 grains of powder. All bullets were seated to have a 2.8700 COL. My only thought is COL might be a bit long since I don't have the correct tool for measuring, but did in fact measure as precisely as I could with the tools I have taking around 50 measurements and getting the average. Any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Spoiler alert... gun still shot AMAZING!

 

[MtnCreek]

Inspect bolt face and ejector for rough machining.

 

[Rust]

Hogdon states the max load is 40 gr of H4350 using Hornady brass, a Federal #210M and a 2.820" COAL. The internal volume of Starline may be different which would affect what the max load could be, a different primer could affect it also.

That said your brass does show ejector marks quite clearly, but your primers are not excessively flattened. My recommendation would be to get another brand of brass (I am very partial to Lapua) and test starting at say 37 gr just to be safe. It is possible that the head of the Starline brass is a little soft and could possibly show ejector marks at lower pressure. Doesn't mean to ignore it. Proceed with caution.

 

[Friday]

My 6.5 cm leaves little ejector marks at 39 and 40 grains but it’s nothing that is completely miss shaping the case or blowing primers out and it holds a fantastic group. My head space is also set just a tad tight, but I’ve reloaded some cases 8 times no issues so I shoot it. My load is 40 grains of H4350 140 grain bullet, in my opinion if your not smashing primers flatter than shit or getting loose primer pockets after one or two reloads your probably ok but don’t load much more that that. Again some people are picky and don’t want any signs of pressure but that don’t look to bad to me 2 of the cases look worse than others but I’ve seen way worse and people shoot the hell out of them.

 

[AlarmedTrout]

That's what I was thinking. I wasn't TOO concerned, but obviously it is the first sign of pressure so I wanted to see what others thought. What type of velocity are you getting with 40 gr? I was in the 2550 range and seemed a bit slow. Would like to be in the high 26's or 27's if its possible with this powder...

 

[Subwrx300]

Primers are round on edges (not flattened) as @Rust said which means at least not enough pressure to force primer cups outwards/backwards.
The ejector marks are like from either rough or excessively proud/protruding ejector, meaning when cartridge is in full battery and bolt locked down, the ejector is bottoming out before it can sit below the bolt face.

While not a substantial issue, you might depressing the ejector plunger by hand with a tool to see if you can get it to go further down below bolt face. If not, it might be a slight bit too long, crosspin slot is slightly too shallow or spring is too long (bottoming out). If you can't get it to seat below bolt face, I'd see if gunsmith (or Tika) can inspect to get fixed. Should be easy fix and will save your brass from multiple fires getting bent or thinner rims unevenly.

 

[supercorndogs]

Ejector marks from pressure are a bad sign. Its not about being picky. Its about figuring out what is causing it. Like others have mentioned in this thread, its not always actually pressure.

Your OAL of 2.87 seems too long. I know both of my Creed chambers would put the 140 ELD into the lands at that OAL. I would push it back to 2.85 and see what happens. My first run through on 100 pieces of starline brass I got the impression the internal volume is very close to my hornady. My same load of 41.7 works in both. My chromo is broken so I couldn't confirm a similar MV. Dope at 600 was the same, so its close.

To surmise I think you are having pressure problems because you are jammed into the lands.

 

[Friday]

I’m using Lapua and alpha brass and 40 grains puts me around 2750

 

[kindabitey]

Part of that could be it'd new brass. Another could be the brand of brass. I've used Starline brass for my CM, and got the same results when new, but did not leave any marks on the second firing with the same load.

 

[padom]

2.87 for a creed?? Unless you have a very long chamber that is way too long.

All my creeds have been 2.85 - 2.865 at lands. I seat to 2.835-2.845

Cheap insurance to order a Hornady OAL gauge and 6.5cm modified case for less than $50 to be sure

 

[Jack's Dad]

I've found starline brass in 6.5 creedmoor to require 1 to 1.5gr less powder when compared to Hornady brass to get the same velocity/pressure.

 

[clcustom1911]

I've found starline brass in 6.5 creedmoor to require 1 to 1.5gr less powder when compared to Hornady brass to get the same velocity/pressure.

Same soup with Lapua.

 

[AlarmedTrout]

Thanks for all the info everyone! I ended up getting the hornady OAL gauge last night and to my suprise... I'm getting an overall length of 2.900! .200 longer than my first test leads! Trust me when I say this, I've measured it HUNDREDS of times using different methods and pressures on the guide rod and still getting a length WAY over book spec. ( mag length for my rifle is 2.955 FYI ) This doesn't seem correct. What the hell am I doing wrong?! ?

 

[clcustom1911]

Personally, I think your primers look fine and dandy. They appear to have a rounded radius from the "flat" to where they curve downward into the firing pin strike point. There is no "flow" or cratering.

Below is a pic of a 43g load of Reloder 17, a rather high-energy powder (pushing a 147g ELD about 2900 FPS LoL). Factory Hornady ammo does 2640-ish in my barrel. Notice the clear ejector swipe and extrusion/flow/crater of the primer metal around the firing pin strike??

This one has no ejector swipe, but has primer "flow/cratering" 42.5g (2850 fps)

As long as you don't have primer signs, and no sticky bolt lift or sticky extraction, you're good to go.

 

[AlarmedTrout]

Personally, I think your primers look fine and dandy. They appear to have a rounded radius from the "flat" to where they curve downward into the firing pin strike point. There is no "flow" or cratering.

Below is a pic of a 43g load of Reloder 17, a rather high-energy powder (pushing a 147g ELD about 2900 FPS LoL). Factory Hornady ammo does 2640-ish in my barrel. Notice the clear ejector swipe and extrusion/flow/crater of the primer metal around the firing pin strike??

View attachment 7034753

This one has no ejector swipe, but has primer "flow/cratering" 42.5g (2850 fps)

View attachment 7034755

As long as you don't have primer signs, and no sticky bolt lift or sticky extraction, you're good to go.

What's your thought on the OAL? Could the mag length be an indication that my rifle has a longer freebore/throat allowing longer than average bullet length? The flat base of the bullet is just about even with where the shoulder starts so it seems adequate for depth...

 

[clcustom1911]

I'm finding with my 147 ELDm's group tight as hell (1/3 MOA or so at 100) out of my barrel with .025" jump. That gives an OAL of 2.83" I believe. You may be "jamming the lands" at 2.87" with your 140's.

I'd back off your OAL to 2.80" - 2.83" or so and let it rip.

FYI Factory Hornady 147 ELDm ammo has a .050" jump in my chamber and still shoots VERY well. Sub-half MOA.

Here's my Reloder 17 41g load at 100 with .025" jump with the 147 ELDm's

 

[cornhusker86]

What's your thought on the OAL? Could the mag length be an indication that my rifle has a longer freebore/throat allowing longer than average bullet length? The flat base of the bullet is just about even with where the shoulder starts so it seems adequate for depth...

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/hand-loading-for-long-range-3-finding-start-oal.34665/

 

[clcustom1911]

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/hand-loading-for-long-range-3-finding-start-oal.34665/

Yes, that write-up is absolutely essential reading.

 

[Long Range 338]

Thanks for all the info everyone! I ended up getting the hornady OAL gauge last night and to my suprise... I'm getting an overall length of 2.900! .200 longer than my first test leads! Trust me when I say this, I've measured it HUNDREDS of times using different methods and pressures on the guide rod and still getting a length WAY over book spec. ( mag length for my rifle is 2.955 FYI ) This doesn't seem correct. What the hell am I doing wrong?! ?

Sounds like a setup issue on your equipment. Time to take a step back and evaluate your processes. Maybe a loose lock ring on a die? Loading distracted or late at night? I would re-evaluate your procedure and double check COAL. Tons of good info out there if you do some digging. Lots of guys out there who have "been there, done that" and will have fixes for this stuff. When you get in a hurry try to remember you are building a small bomb that you are putting into a pipe 4 inches in front of your face. If you've never had anybody show you "hands on" how to reload you might be surprised at the small lessons that make a big difference. Good luck.

 

[AlarmedTrout]

Very good write-up! I actually used this method (without the fancy stops) and came up with my 2.8700 OAL. Figuring it was wrong I purchased the Hornady OAL gauge and came up with 2.900 but was getting much more consistent results (within .0015 or less oppose to +/- .060 with the other method) So I talked myself into how it should be correct, loaded some rounds, and cautiously hit the range. Loaded a handful of rounds with 40.6 H4350, 140 ELD match, and 2.8800 OAL. Wanted to do load development but being with others that want to shoot your new badass gun tends to skew data. So just trying for groups, these are the results!

Don't mind the top groups "flier" wasn't holding over enough for wind.

Ejector marks have reduced about 70% after ejector polishing, suggested by MtnCreek. Also started getting some primer flow...


Target pictures at 100 yards have been lost on my phone somehow but they were all around the .5 MOA or less with the occasional .6 - .75 MOA. Very satisfying and confident feeling so far without REALLY diving into the load development.

 

[clcustom1911]

Looks very good. I'd still back off the lands another. 005 to .010".

 

[AlarmedTrout]

Sounds like a setup issue on your equipment. Time to take a step back and evaluate your processes. Maybe a loose lock ring on a die? Loading distracted or late at night? I would re-evaluate your procedure and double check COAL. Tons of good info out there if you do some digging. Lots of guys out there who have "been there, done that" and will have fixes for this stuff. When you get in a hurry try to remember you are building a small bomb that you are putting into a pipe 4 inches in front of your face. If you've never had anybody show you "hands on" how to reload you might be surprised at the small lessons that make a big difference. Good luck.

Trust me I take reloading very serious! Spent hundreds of hours researching before I even pressed my first piece of brass. Granted, that's only going to get me so far. From brand new brass to finished bullet I was well into hour 3 loading 40 rounds checking measurements countless times LOL.

 

[fxdrider]

I was in the 2550 range and seemed a bit slow. Would like to be in the high 26's or 27's if its possible with this powder...

Regarding the velocity aspect: Tikka's are known to have somewhat slow factory barrels. Usually very accurate, but a bit on the slow side.

 

[AlarmedTrout]

Looks very good. I'd still back off the lands another. 005 to .010".

I definitely will. Once I get some time to myself Ill collect more data and start eliminating variables. Just needed to get past the new gun excitement I suppose ?

 

[Juggerxxx]

Was there any oil or solvent in your chamber before you shot these? Did you perform the act of cleaning the chamber to ensure it was free of anything that would act like a lubercant?
The brass will not grip the chamber walls and will slam back into the face of the bolt if there is oil or solvent in there.
Make sure your brass is also free of lubercant.

 

[AlarmedTrout]

Well I think its safe to say that after 3 outings, my load workup has been very successful (besides the lower than expected velocity). Extremely satisfied with the Tikka T3x TacA1! Cant wait for the snow to melt in the mountains so I can take it out to distance. Thanks everyone for your input!

Test shots done on a freshly cleaned barrel.

 

[clcustom1911]

Excellent!! Great job. Load 'em and send 'em!!!