Rifle Scopes Elcan 1x/4x Limited Edition FDE in 7.62 is Based on the SU-230A "HD" SOCOM Version

[DL32]

I was reading a blog and found interesting info on the Éclan 1x4x, DFOV-T2, this the limited run of FDE in the 7.62 reticle.

It is virtually identical to those used SOCOM (Gen III SU-230A/PVS "HD" with the exception of the reticle).
In this case HD means heavy duty and not high def referring to low dispersion glass optics.
Apparently the SCAR 17, the rifle this glass was made for, had recoil that would actually effect azimuth zero as well as other components.

They made external design changes that beefed up retaining pins, screws...

They also upgraded th internals to better handle the SCAR's recoil. Other commercial GEN III Elcans are not the upgraded variety of the DFOV-T2 FDE models.

I guess it is truly a limited edition model as aparantely guys in the military are having trouble finding the HD version of the Elcan and actually use the 5.56 variety on their 308 rifles.

To the guys who got lucky to get one of these, big congrats. You are especially lucky if you are a SCAR 17 owner.

 

[Cobracutter]

Its a garbage optic. It does nothing great and cannot touch a good 1-4 or 6. Save your money and get a MK6/USO1-8/Razorg2/SWFA1-6. Much better optic and a better price.

 

[beenjammin]

I am so glad I was able to view an elcan before purchasing. I was a click away from buying, but I honestly think there are better optics for the large price tag. If you want tough for that price, get the new USO SR8 and get 4x more magnification.

 

[DL32]

Its a garbage optic. It does nothing great and cannot touch a good 1-4 or 6. Save your money and get a MK6/USO1-8/Razorg2/SWFA1-6. Much better optic and a better price.

Not sure I agree.

The glass used in the optic is also used in IMAX cameras. It is impeccable.
Not to mention there is separate illumination for the daytime bright red dot and crosshair. Yes the 4x is limited and you wont be hitting 1000 yard targets. You must consider philosophy of use. My set-up is "SHTF." I'm looking at CQB and engagements up to no more than 500 yards.

Also, regular tube 1-6,8x's have mostly 24mm objectives; meaning 4mm or smaller exit pupils. The Leupold MK6 has a 20mm objective, which I would not be happy with.
These are virtually useless at pre-dawn, dusk and without a doubt at night.

The Elcan has a large 32mm objective (like 10x scopes such as the Nightforce), 8mm exit pupil and the amazing glass that allow you to see things in low light/night situations better than with your own eyes. To me, this is quite important in a do it all optic.

There is truly no better optic for this philosophy.

 

[TigernLionGSP]

Not sure I agree.

The glass used in the optic is also used in IMAX cameras. It is impeccable.
Not to mention there is separate illumination for the daytime bright red dot and crosshair. Yes the 4x is limited and you wont be hitting 1000 yard targets. You must consider philosophy of use. My set-up is "SHTF." I'm looking at CQB and engagements up to no more than 500 yards.

Also, regular tube 1-6,8x's have mostly 24mm objectives; meaning 4mm or smaller exit pupils. The Leupold MK6 has a 20mm objective, which I would not be happy with.
These are virtually useless at pre-dawn, dusk and without a doubt at night.

The Elcan has a large 32mm objective (like 10x scopes such as the Nightforce), 8mm exit pupil and the amazing glass that allow you to see things in low light/night situations better than with your own eyes. To me, this is quite important in a do it all optic.

There is truly no better optic for this philosophy.

I have a Elcan 1.5 x 6 on my sig 716. Great glass seen a lot guys using them in the sand box while I was there 05-07

 

[Cobracutter]

The only reason guys were using them, is they were issued. There are a few guys in SOF that use them and like them, doesn't mean its a good choice. Most use something better. Or they were the new thing. You can stat all the "stats" you want, its not even close in comparison to the competition. I stand by what I said.

They come with a shit mount, that will break/not hold zero (Arms)
They still have considerable POI shift when going from 1 to 4x
The 1x reticle sucks for CQB or getting on target quickly. Even a Acog at 3/3.4/4x is quicker.
Its very heavy for what it is.
No one is using a Day optic at night.

Your better off with a Acog and micro aimpoint in offset. It will be lighter, cheaper, and actualy work.

 

[j-dubya]

I used them, and like them so much I purchased my own for one of my rifles. I agree the earlier models had issues, but I feel just about everything has been dealt with in the latest generation. Having used these along with a few 1-4 variable scopes, for a combat rifle not exactly being employed in a SPR- or DM-type role, it is a toss-up in optic choice. Both have pros and cons. I stand by my experience.

They come with a shit mount, that will break/not hold zero (Arms)

I have not had or seen one break , and the zero issue is due to inadequete tension on the rail on some rifles. This has been more or less solved with the adjustable ARMS levers.

They still have considerable POI shift when going from 1 to 4x

I have not noticed in the Generation 3 variants.

The 1x reticle sucks for CQB or getting on target quickly. Even a Acog at 3/3.4/4x is quicker.

How exactly does it suck? A red dot is a red dot...and the Elcan is not in the same class as an Aimpoint or EOTech. However, the majority of the time it comes awfully close. Being quicker with an ACOG is your personal preference, probably not true for most, including me.

Its very heavy for what it is.

Is it really? One of the lightest 1-4 optics available is the Vortex PST 1-4. Mine comes in only 3.5 oz's lighter than my Elcan with Nightforce Ultralight rings. Add a QD one-piece mount and you are roughly the same weight as the Elcan, if not one ounce more...

No one is using a Day optic at night.

Not true. Many, including me, use a thermal in front of the Elcan on 1x for select operations with excellent results. Not nearly as effective when using an ACOG...

 

[oliver166]

Did they ever get rid of the shift at 4x?

 

[Hogstooth]

Well guys it doesn't sound like this optic is without faults, but for the money you spend you shouldn't have to worry about if it is going to loose zero due to the optic or a mount. I am sure that it has been upgraded over time, but civilians expect perfection for thier money since they can't just go to the armory and get another one. Looks like someone needs to put this optic to the test and post photos/video and results, anyone want to send me one for testing? We are getting ready to start our M4 in-service at the end of the month good time to run her thru the paces.

or J-dubya since you seem to be defending them pretty hard, if you have one maybe you can do some testing and post?

 

[CSTactical]

I really like the ELCAN 1/4x they are a little on the heavy side. The glass is very nice, I have not had an issue with the mounts and I have tested them a lot, the flip lever going from 1x to 4x make them very fast, and the illumination is a very bright, and the construction is very solid.

Mike @ CST

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I have to agree with Cobracutter, it's not a great optic for what it is designed to do, there are far better options out there. I base my statements on having actually tested this optic and all the variations of the SCAR light and heavy before they were fielded to certain units. When I say I tested them, I do not mean me by myself but as part of an evaluation program. This testing included firing the weapon(s) with this optic on it in all of it's possible configurations, both heavy and light models. I also personally flew them attached to my body in a wind tunnel and eventually jumped with them out of an airplane from 12.5K feet and then immediately fired the weapons afterwards to see how well they held their zero. Suffice it to say, I think I have used this optic considerably in depth and beyond what most reading this thread would ever subject the optic to if they bought one of their own.

With all of that said, the optic is as Cobracutter stated, it's a heavy piece of kit that has issues, not just one but all of them that were on other weapons. It was hit and miss as to which ones had what type of issue but come the end of the months of evaluation I was less than impressed with it and sure as hell didn't run it as my optic when overseas. As was stated, some guys run it because it is issued, most thought it was cool at first but eventually swapped it out. Thats not to say they were all crap, some worked for guys no problem and some guys like them. Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on buying one; I wouldn't use it if it was given to me for free, I recommend you don't spend your money on one. This is all based on my personal experience, YMMV.

 

[Cobracutter]

Rule #1 when buying something.

Don't take advice (sole advice) from someone selling a product. How many people are going to tell you what they are selling is a piece of shit?

Selling something is not the same as a trainer or expert who runs then regularly and sees how they stack up against the competition.

Thanks for the insight PZT. My contacts in the ATC and in the trainer world said bassicaly the same thing.

The thing that really ticks me is the price. For the price of this optic, it shouldn't have any of these issues. It could have been designed a little better, with better parts suppliers and wouln't have costed a dime more to produce. It COULD have been a great optic, I am just not sure the 1x/4x Dual Plane technology is there yet for the trauma that a weapon system puts on a optic. Atleast not in that size at that price.

 

[nomad07]

Thanks all for input, good and bad. i would have asked same question in a few months when i'm doing my optics buy so input much appreciated

 

[Pinco Palla]

The only reason guys were using them, is they were issued. There are a few guys in SOF that use them and like them, doesn't mean its a good choice. Most use something better. Or they were the new thing. You can stat all the "stats" you want, its not even close in comparison to the competition. I stand by what I said.

They come with a shit mount, that will break/not hold zero (Arms)
They still have considerable POI shift when going from 1 to 4x
The 1x reticle sucks for CQB or getting on target quickly. Even a Acog at 3/3.4/4x is quicker.
Its very heavy for what it is.
No one is using a Day optic at night.

Your better off with a Acog and micro aimpoint in offset. It will be lighter, cheaper, and actualy work.

+1

PP out

 

[pudge243]

I'm on board with cobracutter and pinco palla..... Optic is garbage and the 1x is useless because it supposed to be CQB compatible. Target acquisition through this site or even the iron site that's on the top is shitty...... They make a doctr site that goes on the top for the sopmod kit.... But even then it is very awkward and you have to move your head too much to transition to that optic. Once again its way too heavy....... Would much rather have the eotech and if needed out further than 300m then get the magnifier.


.......FIRST IN ASIA.......

 

[GlockSlap]

One of the finest optics I own, and use.

The ability to flip from 1x to 4x instantly is fantastic, the glass and eye relief is superior to an ACOG IMHO.

EoTech with flip magnifier ways almost-if not more-with the mounts, and is clumsy. Again I own EoTechs, etc. too.
Oh, and when the battery goes dead in the EoTech, or the electronics shit the bed, you got the worlds largest square peep sight.

Elcan still is a 1x4 scope with a BDC (FWIW). Can't say I've jumped from airplanes with it, but I also bought it for a very low price as well.

That being said, I'd like to hear what other 1x4 variables are out there that do the job better?

 

[Sniperdiaper]

Optic is garbage? Compared to what ?

 

[Cobracutter]

Optic is garbage? Compared to what ?

Maybe if you read the thread instead of trying to boost post count, it would be obvious.

 

[Sniperdiaper]

Thanks. Plus 1 more.

 

[DL32]

I've had the Elcan for about 2 weeks now.
1. In terms of glass, S&B or Swaro are better. Glass is very crisp and clear; great contrast as well. Even at night it is very bright under moonlight.
2. On my SCAR 17, I've had no issues at all with zeroing, the arms mounts, though not my favorite, work well....
3. The illumination system is the BEST I've ever seen.
4. Weight is the same as an SWFA 1-4x with a Larue Mount, just much more compact. Also love that it's FDE like my SCAR.
5. It works perfectly at 1x with both eyes open.
6. Head position is way less critical than the haters say. I played with moving my head around and it took quite a bit to create shadow. I prefer the Elcan to an Eotech with the 3x Mag (and yes, i''ve used that set-up, I can comment on that).
7. My set up with this scope was SHTF. If you know anything about that concept, most engagements are under 100 yards. No better scope than the Elcan for that purpose and it's still good out to 400 yards easily. BDC is what it is. It's not for precision sniper set-up. It's for quickly acquiring targets at short/medium range and eliminating them. And of course, FOV is best of any class.
8. If you don't own one, STFU. Your comments are meaningless boys. Buy one first or use one for a few weeks before you post anything as your comments are just BS hearsay. Just beacuase your buddy uses one does not mean you can comment.... blah blah blah. Pony up or shut up.

 

[Wayfaerer320]

I have to agree with Cobracutter, it's not a great optic for what it is designed to do, there are far better options out there. I base my statements on having actually tested this optic and all the variations of the SCAR light and heavy before they were fielded to certain units. When I say I tested them, I do not mean me by myself but as part of an evaluation program. This testing included firing the weapon(s) with this optic on it in all of it's possible configurations, both heavy and light models. I also personally flew them attached to my body in a wind tunnel and eventually jumped with them out of an airplane from 12.5K feet and then immediately fired the weapons afterwards to see how well they held their zero. Suffice it to say, I think I have used this optic considerably in depth and beyond what most reading this thread would ever subject the optic to if they bought one of their own.

With all of that said, the optic is as Cobracutter stated, it's a heavy piece of kit that has issues, not just one but all of them that were on other weapons. It was hit and miss as to which ones had what type of issue but come the end of the months of evaluation I was less than impressed with it and sure as hell didn't run it as my optic when overseas. As was stated, some guys run it because it is issued, most thought it was cool at first but eventually swapped it out. Thats not to say they were all crap, some worked for guys no problem and some guys like them. Personally, I wouldn't waste my money on buying one; I wouldn't use it if it was given to me for free, I recommend you don't spend your money on one. This is all based on my personal experience, YMMV.
View attachment 2221

Are you referring to the Gen I and II Elcan models? Or the Gen III Specter DR?

It's been well documented that early Gen Elcan Specter DRs had the issues you're talking about, but what about the Gen III?

Have you tested the latest Gen III Specter DR in the field?

 

[918v]

How does one identify the third generation? Is is labeled as such?

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Are you referring to the Gen I and II Elcan models? Or the Gen III Specter DR?

It's been well documented that early Gen Elcan Specter DRs had the issues you're talking about, but what about the Gen III?

Have you tested the latest Gen III Specter DR in the field?

It's a military item and such wasn't labeled (as far as I am aware) as Gen's. We got them, tested them, gave feedback, they came back with "fixes", we broke them again, they came back with more fixes , rinse, repeat. They got fielded and reports came back they were breaking and they came out with another fix. Seems they fixed some of the issues as the seemed to stop having as many issues but I also attribute that to guys just throwing them in a box and not turning them in or reporting the issues as guys got tired of getting a band aid solution. Like I said, some worked great for guys and some guys like them, its hit and miss. You typically don't see guys running them a lot if they have a choice, that should tell you something. I wouldn't spend my own money on one still.

 

[918v]

Did the ones you test have circles or hash marks for holdover points.

 

[Wayfaerer320]

Did the ones you test have circles or hash marks for holdover points.

If they were SOCOM issued, I would imagine they had the SOCOM reticle, which doesn't have the circles.

 

[Kamkaze]

I have ran a 1-4 elcan on my duty rifle for 3 years now, very hard on it. I have never had any issues with loss of zero or any issue with the mounts. Only problem was the rear backup sight that I would never use fell off. Its not as good as a reflex sight for CQB and I wish it had 1-6 for longer shots but with that said I have seen my buddy ring a 12" plate at 740 consistantly. I like the ability to quickly switch between 1 and 4. I never use 2, 3, 4 or on any of my 1-4 or 1-6 scopes so to me its a great feature. I think it comes down to personal preference. I will definately say they are not junk, it just depends if it suits you or not. BTW mine is on a 5.56 not a 7.62

 

[Papa Zero Three]

Did the ones you test have circles or hash marks for holdover points.

We had both at one point for testing. If I recall correctly the hash mark/BDC was what were were using on the MGs and the circle reticle was on the SCARs as those guns and optics came from SOCOM.

 

[918v]

I think the circle ones were gen3, from my reading. But you could of had prototypes. I wanna get one. I played with the 4x fixed version for a day and was pleased.

 

[Papa Zero Three]

I think the circle ones were gen3, from my reading. But you could of had prototypes. I wanna get one. I played with the 4x fixed version for a day and was pleased.

I'm positive we had early versions of the SCARs and the optics all the way up until it was partially fielded to certain units. All the early problems we identified with the guns and the optics came back with changes and we started the process over again.

As I stated above, I have used this optic harder than anyone here reading this that would buy this vs have it issued to them. If your gun goes from the safe to the range and you fire a few rounds and then back to the safe and gets babied, the optic might work for you without issues. Personally, I wouldn't use one at work and I sure as hell would not spend my own money on one.

 

[Cobracutter]

They still use ARMS mounts, which in itself, religates them in the junk pile as far as I am concerned.

What about the POI/Shift issue? Did they somehow fix that too?

At any rate, pumping out subpar optics at that price point for years tells you all you need to know. They let their customers be the true beta testers, and still have not rectified design, engineering and material selection flaws.