Night Vision Eurooptic has KAC PVS30 Army Buyback Grade A, $4700.

[Strykervet]

They go for over $11,000 and they only have so many. Wish I could get one, just don't have the money to spare right now. Probably won't run into a deal like this again either, this a helluva deal for a long range IR clip on that also works like a stand alone IR scope. Damn. Always happens when I don't have the funds available. Anyway, maybe some of you can score on this.

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Link?

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Link?

https://www.eurooptic.com/Knights-Armament-US-Army-Buy-Back-AN-PVS-30-GRADE-A-26807A.aspx

 

[Strykervet]

Oh, sorry.

 

[Yellowhammer]

Wish this was available a month ago & it would have been mine. Nice find

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Would this be a smart buy for your first foray into the NV world?

 

[Yellowhammer]

As in your very first NV item? I'd personally say no--get a PVS-14 first; or a PVS-7 if you are trying to save up for a clip on & want to save some money.

You need to be able to walk around in the dark before you shoot in the dark IMO. If you shop around for used a great PVS-7 w/helmet etc setup can be put together for $2K. If you are patient you might be able to do a PVS-14 for that much but it's very doable with a -7.

I'm a huge fan of buying used, but still quality stuff. I've owned a bunch of different NV stuff so feel free to PM me with questions on what to look for when buying used.

 

[Evolution 9]

Would this be a smart buy for your first foray into the NV world?

As Yellowhammer said, usually no.

But...

In this case, if you will ever want a NV clip-on, YES.

Excellent used PVS 14s and 7s are getting cheaper every day as most guys jump on the new Omni spec and new color as they come out. There’s no rush to buy, and maybe an incentive to wait.

These PVS30s on the other hand are in limited supply (nobody outside of KAC on the civilian side knows how limited). Once they are gone if you want one you’ll likely be spending a lot more.

Buy PVS30 for 5k and later buy PVS14 for 2k = 7000

Buy PVS14 first and buy PVS30 in a year = 7000? 9000? 12000? Nobody knows, but the odds of the used 30 getting cheaper are near zero while the odds of a used 14 getting cheaper are near 100%

 

[ballistic1]

Call or PM SurgeonShooter/ aka SureShot NightVision ..

He always has great pricing on these and other Night toys

 

[Terry Cross]

These are not PVS-30s technically. They cost half as much for a reason.

They are rebuilt PVS-26s. The 30s have remarkably better optics and electronic features. That being said, they are still far better than some of the PVS-22 wannabe clones and L3/PVS-24 knock offs.


While the units are very good for the money, they should not be compared to current PVS-30.

 

[Evolution 9]

Could you please elaborate?

The ones I’ve seen are marked by KAC “PVS-30”.

Either KAC is falsely advertising or these are PVS-30s and id genuinely like to know which.

 

[verdugo60]

Same

 

[knuckleballz]

Is there a caliber recoil limitation on these?

 

[Evolution 9]

Up to and including 50 cal, so not really.

 

[knuckleballz]

Is there a snipers hide discount at europtic?

 

[cake5150]

These are not PVS-30s technically. They cost half as much for a reason.

They are rebuilt PVS-26s. The 30s have remarkably better optics and electronic features. That being said, they are still far better than some of the PVS-22 wannabe clones and L3/PVS-24 knock offs.


While the units are very good for the money, they should not be compared to current PVS-30.

Interesting if true. The reburbed 30s I owned and used were absolutely excellent. That being said, I did sell my PVS-30s since I like my KN203 SIMRADs substantially more before even factoring in the HUGE price difference. You can literally buy a new Razor gen 2 4.5-27 EBR-2C and a top notch scope mount with the money saved buying a KN203 SIMRAD vs. PVS-30 refurb. The fact that you also get a better image and controls that are actually within reach is just icing on the SIMRAD cake.

 

[CBDR]

I keep reading more and more positive feedback about SIMRAD. The PVS-30 (refurb) I picked up is top shelf. May have to dig a little deeper.

 

[mirage98]

Any reliable source for a Simrad rather than gambling on eBay or elsewhere?

 

[Terry Cross]

Could you please elaborate?

PVS-30s have a different main body casting that takes only one battery. In addition, the single battery compartment has a threaded cap that is reversible so that the unit can run off of a single AA battery or a single 123A.

The 30's have considerably lower power consumption needs for the same gain settings than the older 26s (and most other units as well). You can take a AA battery that is pretty much useless in other devices and still run a 30 for a couple of hours with it.

The glass and coatings on the 30s are also in a different tier than the older units.

./

 

[Terry Cross]

Interesting if true. The reburbed 30s I owned and used were absolutely excellent. That being said, I did sell my PVS-30s since I like my KN203 SIMRADs substantially more before even factoring in the HUGE price difference. You can literally buy a new Razor gen 2 4.5-27 EBR-2C and a top notch scope mount with the money saved buying a KN203 SIMRAD vs. PVS-30 refurb. The fact that you also get a better image and controls that are actually within reach is just icing on the SIMRAD cake.

No argument that the old SimRad units have most excellent image quality. We have seen them almost become extinct in our training circles due to the PITA of bore sighting and tweaking needed once mounted. New gen clip-ons like the 22s, 27s and 30s and truly swappable from gun to gun with zero POI shifts.

That plus the additional issues with the exaggerated line of sight the SimRad brings to the table make for additional pitfalls. For example, when trying to insure that your bullet path is clear when working from vehicle or building hides as well as insuring obstacle avoidance further downrange on close or urban distances.


./

 

[cake5150]

No argument that the old SimRad units have most excellent image quality. We have seen them almost become extinct in our training circles due to the PITA of bore sighting and tweaking needed once mounted. New gen clip-ons like the 22s, 27s and 30s and truly swappable from gun to gun with zero POI shifts.

That plus the additional issues with the exaggerated line of sight the SimRad brings to the table make for additional pitfalls. For example, when trying to insure that your bullet path is clear when working from vehicle or building hides as well as insuring obstacle avoidance further downrange on close or urban distances.


./

I can see your point, especially on the height over bore issue. For my purely recreational purposes, the slight change in dope is a non-issue. I have not experienced any POI change when removing/reattaching yet. I was quite shocked by how much better the SIMRAD's image was than the 30 on a DARK night. I had been told that would be the case but I had to see it to believe it. Their cost-effectiveness is hard to beat.

As for the PVS-30, I had found old literature on the units (from KAC) when they first came out and those were two battery housings. I know the newer 30s are single battery and the 26s were definitely two battery. If those refurbs truly really are rebranded PVS-26s (still probably a good deal) then that would be more than a little misleading. I am hoping that is not the case. Either way, they are great scopes too I just prefer my SIMRAD for the cost/benefit ratio and image quality.

 

[texasleftychef]

This is the same price they have had for months. Did they run out or run low or something? And I ask this just because of availability not to call out the heads up.

 

[Strykervet]

Well, I applied for a personal loan for $4k and I have the rest. It won't interfere with my monthly savings for a new house and I won't have to take money out of there and replace it. It'll also increase my credit for when I get ready to get a house next year. So two birds with one stone. I'll have the loan payment each month so that'll reduce what I have to spare monthly for a while but it's worth it. As long as it doesn't interfere with the house it's worth it.

So fingers crossed it works out, shit usually blows up in my face. We'll see tomorrow, hopefully I'll know then and can do the deed. And I really don't know what I'll get it for, I already get a discount through them but I have to call in the order to get it.

That it'll work solo, with high mag. and up to .50BMG is exactly what I needed. I guess this thing may not be for everyone, but if you plan on using it on a .50 you don't have as many low cost options that are still good.

 

[Strykervet]

This is the same price they have had for months. Did they run out or run low or something? And I ask this just because of availability not to call out the heads up.

Oh, I didn't know that. I just put it up here because I got an email from them, figured I couldn't take advantage, now I may be able to...

Does anyone have any experience with these PVS30 buybacks? What is a grade A? If I have high expectations, am I gonna be let down?

 

[shoobe01]

ETA: I see, thought that it was with full view of the other context.

Refurb PVS-30s have indeed been for sale for a while, from several places, for similar prices. Have had other threads discussing them, and a lot of input from night-shooting smartypants like @wigwamitus. Search the forum for some more info about it. Also some reviews on other forums. I put a long review up on one of those and... maybe here? I forget now.

First I have heard anywhere these are "rebranded" PVS26s. Not sure how they'd do that cheaply anyway, as the marks seem to be original to the scope; they'd have to replace more (expensive) parts. It's my understanding (and backed up by a lot of documentary evidence) that "first gen" PVS30s were dual battery, second gen have a new single battery case and slightly different electronics to change the battery life as well.

They have been selling weirdly slowly, so everyone has been low on inventory for months at least. So much that I didn't bother to buy one for a whole as I thought they'd all be out of stock, but then found out they are still around. Got one, love it. Not that you shouldn't jump on it, but if you wait a week, they will probably not all suddenly disappear, so don't make bad financial choices to fund it.

 

[texasleftychef]

Well, I applied for a personal loan for $4k and I have the rest. It won't interfere with my monthly savings for a new house and I won't have to take money out of there and replace it. It'll also increase my credit for when I get ready to get a house next year. So two birds with one stone. I'll have the loan payment each month so that'll reduce what I have to spare monthly for a while but it's worth it. As long as it doesn't interfere with the house it's worth it.

So fingers crossed it works out, shit usually blows up in my face. We'll see tomorrow, hopefully I'll know then and can do the deed. And I really don't know what I'll get it for, I already get a discount through them but I have to call in the order to get it.

That it'll work solo, with high mag. and up to .50BMG is exactly what I needed. I guess this thing may not be for everyone, but if you plan on using it on a .50 you don't have as many low cost options that are still good.

I think you will be happy so don’t sweat it. Let us know how it turns out because I’ve been eyeing these too from EU.

 

[car16smg]

Going to a shop to get one in my hands this weekend. Been on the fence with night optics for a while now...the long range units I always fancied were waaay out of my price range, until now! Having the ability to go from 300blk to 300WM, even 375CT and 50bmg is very appealing. I’ll be sure to post a pic with it mounted on the M82A1

 

[Surgeon_Shooter]

These are in fact pvs-30’s.

Mr. Terry Cross is right in a sense though. These are basically a pvs-26 housing with pvs-30 upgrades. KAC says that they got these back and upgraded them to pvs-30 (stage 1 specs). Take from that what you will but from what I can gather they changed the objective lens and changed the prism from 26 to 30. The “new” 30’s have the battery compartment that that Mr. Terry mentioned which is really nice. I can’t count how many times I had a brain fart and went hunting and took the wrong batteries. Well it doesn’t matter with the new 30’s because they take either AA or cr123. I can’t believe this thread is getting so popular, I thought all the hype for these had died. I’ve been selling these for this price for quite a while. I thought everyone already had one by now ?

Jay

 

[Yellowhammer]

Just from my observation watching the used market cheap thermal has really softened the clip on market. I had a decent one that took me months to sell at, what I thought, was quite the bargain.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

strykervet....you been hiding under a fuckin rock or what? lol these refurb 30's been around for almost 2yrs.

for those asking about performance. they are fantastic. bore sight retention has been spot on on every unit ive used so far. ive had probably 10 simrad kn203fab and 253fab. they are excellent units but come with the pitfalls mentioned above. the 30 is zero across every platform i run it on. the form factor is the big thing for me. if i was static overwatching something the simrad is balls. if i gotta move which is normally the case the 30 or any inline clip on kills it. in terms of image i really see little to no difference between my simrads and the 30. i do think the pinnacle tube in the 30 has a touch better response if that makes sense.

jump on one if you want one before they are gone

 

[Killswitch Engage]

These are not PVS-30s technically. They cost half as much for a reason.

They are rebuilt PVS-26s. The 30s have remarkably better optics and electronic features. That being said, they are still far better than some of the PVS-22 wannabe clones and L3/PVS-24 knock offs.


While the units are very good for the money, they should not be compared to current PVS-30.[/QUOTe

terry i cant say i can see any difference between my refurb 30 and the latest issued 30 i put right beside it. none at all that any of us could tell in terms of resolution, gain, image quality etc. unless im missing something...

 

[redneckbmxer24]

These are excellent units and are most certainly "real" PVS-30's. All of these I've had come through have been the dual AA style compartment (26), but everything else about them is a PVS-30. They're built like tanks and the image quality is phenomenal. I've compared them to Simrads, L3 M2124LR, and a "new" PVS-30 with the single AA/CR123 style housing. Under ideal lighting conditions the performance is practically identical, even difference in FOM between the units is virtually undetectable.

What makes the top tier ten 3 units stand apart from one another is ergonomics. Location and manipulation of controls an weight are the biggest differences.

To address the question about Grade A's, they're simply the cleaner, more blemish free units. All units were refurbished by KAC and any worn/damaged parts were replaced, but the Grade A's are cleaner. As far as I know Euro Optic is only stocking the Grade A's but I'm sure they'll special order you a B if you want it. The savings is only about $200 however and when you're talking about $4K+ IMO $200 isn't a lot of money to get the cleaner unit.

You can't go wrong with one of these units and you should jump on them before they dry up.

 

[Yellowhammer]

Does euoroptic take trade-ins like SWFA?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

They stopped taking trade ins, I was told it was too much of a hassle. As a retail owner myself, I completely understand. As a consumer you're almost always better off just selling your stuff a little cheaper vs trading it in because the business has to get it low enough that they'll be able to sell it, and make a profit too.

If you've got something that's 100% new in the box it may be worth a call if you just want the convenience of not wanting to deal with selling it, but be prepared to take a hit.

 

[Yellowhammer]

Y'all are a bad influence. Yesterday I was thinking "I've had clips ons before, don't need another". Now it's "that's really cool".

I'm supposed to be saving for WP duals....

 

[car16smg]

So is it even worth the 8 hours I’ll have to spend in the car to go pick it up or just order the grade A from europtic and have them ship it to me for free lol

 

[redneckbmxer24]

What? Not sure why you'd even consider that. Time + vehicle wear and tear + gas vs free shipping... lol.

They have normal business hours so it's not like you could go and test it out at night or anything, not that they'd let you "use" a new product before buying it anyway. They'll also have to charge you sales tax if you do an over the counter sale.

 

[Willie Miller V]

I just got the email from Europtic that was advertising those. Too bad I have a Armasight CO-X Gen 2+ HD that’s brand new that I have never used. If I could sell it for a decent price I would probably get one of these Knights Armament PVS30 Clip on NV scope. Even though I just ordered a Trijicon MK 3 Hunter 60mm. The CO-X I have has everything you need, mounts, adapters, long range illuminater and a few other things. Would I be able to crank my Nightforce Atacr up to 18x-20x and still have a good image?

 

[Strykervet]

Well, I think the loan went through so tomorrow I'm gonna call 'em up and get one. I'll post it on here for everyone to check out when I get it. IF I get it, still isn't done yet. But I can't imagine anything stopping it. I really needed one and even if it craps out I can still get a new tube for a lot less than $11,000! And it'll work on everything I have. After the sale passes I bet it'll sell for more than I paid too if I were to sell it. That's what happened with the military trade in rifles.

Also, anything with "KAC" on it will be worth more resale than the same item made by someone else. Just a fact.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Willie Miller V]

Are these NV clip on scopes truly long range and are they as good as everyone has said? When I mean long range I just mean 500 yards tops. I would be using it in front of either a NF ATACR 2-25x56 SFP or a Khales 624i 6-24x56 ffp. Obviously I wouldn’t go up and past 20x.

 

[CBDR]

I must agree the 30 is extremely efficient on battery consumption.

 

[CBDR]

Killswitch owns the night. Never looked back after I bought my 30.
Hogs continuing to take heavy losses. Scan with thermal, shoot with the NV.

 

[car16smg]

Initial post on this thread said something about using this unit as a stand alone scope?
Is that an accurate statement? Where does the reticle come from if not from the day optic it is clipped in front of?

 

[cake5150]

Initial post on this thread said something about using this unit as a stand alone scope?
Is that an accurate statement? Where does the reticle come from if not from the day optic it is clipped in front of?

The 30 has no reticle, it relies on a day optic for that. I supposed you could mount the 30 in place of a day scope and use an IR laser as the aiming point, but that would be about as handy as a football bat. You can use it as a handheld viewer but, again, it would be far from ideal. The 30 is a clip-on night scope, it excels in that role but not others. Ok that is not entirely true, it could also function as a billy club.

 

[Yellowhammer]

I've tried using clip ons as handhelds and it doesn't work well FWIW. I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

using a clip on as a handheld scanner is shit. don't waste your time.

Are these NV clip on scopes truly long range and are they as good as everyone has said? When I mean long range I just mean 500 yards tops. I would be using it in front of either a NF ATACR 2-25x56 SFP or a Khales 624i 6-24x56 ffp. Obviously I wouldn’t go up and past 20x.

absolutely long range. I shoot with mine out to 1200yd plenty but what constitutes long range changes at night in my opinion. typically the standoff distance is shrunk and not what is needed or used in daylight whether it be bad guys or hunting.

the thing that people who haven't used and don't understand with nv is this. its a very different dynamic then day time optics/shooting. people think they need to support 18-20x magnification to shoot distance. the furthest thing from the truth. you are going to give up fov and resolution on ANY CLIP ON BUILT NO MATTER WHO MAKES IT> its the nature of putting as magnified optic behind an IMAGE tube. it magnifies everything including tube imperfections, spots, dirt etc.

you will find that 8-12x is a happy world with even the best clip on on the planet. and crazy as it sounds youll be able to shoot very accurately at long range such as 600 and beyond.

you can increase that performance and magnification with supplemental IR illum. im of the opinion that having both forms of illum is necessary and depends on how and where you are using it. laser perfroms much better in a situation where there is splash and bloom from foliage, obstructions, buildings, cars etc and you need to thread the illum through a hole with no scatter. in open country I prefer led illum as its typically cleaner and you are able to catch more detail from movement, shine, etc.

 

[Yellowhammer]

I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but IMO another big consideration with clip-ons is a high quality day scope. You really need a good variable power day scope for clip on use. I've had the same clip on in front of garbage scopes & premium scopes and the difference is huge. If you put one in front of a garbage day scope it looks like gen2 NV where in front of a premium scope it looks awesome.

I'd wager the difference is more substantial than what you'd see in daylight.

 

[Willie Miller V]

I was told that your day scope made a big difference in how good of an image you would get with a Clip On NV device. I would certainly hope that either NF ATACR SFP or FFP and a Khales 624i would be a “good enough “ day scope for NV Clip On scopes. A big question that I have about the KAC PVS-30 is what everyone is talking about, what is the FOM? One person was saying that a FOM of 1800 or higher is what you want. I would think since these devices have been sent back and refurbished with newer and better internals/tubes , that you would be getting something very good in the least. I currently have a Armasight CO-X gen 2+ HD and was able to go up to 9x-10x and still get a good image. But I only tried the scope once, I still didn’t know what I was doing as far as adjusting the gain, focus and everything else you do to get a clear picture. The PVS-30 seems to have less adjustments to have to learn, plus it’s a longer range scope than the CO-x not to mention it’s a gen 3. But it’s also more than twice the price. Back to my question though, what is the FOM?

 

[Willie Miller V]

As far as illumination goes, should I get some type of LR illuminator and if so, which one? Everything I’ve read about these units is that they perform very good without any ambient light. But I would think if you are shooting up to 500-600 yards you would be better off to have some type of illumination, better to have something than to have nothing.

 

[Killswitch Engage]

FOM is figure of merit. it is basically the signal to noise ratio multiplied by the lp/mm.

something around an 1800 fom is typically going to get you 26 ish' snr and 72 lp/mm ish'....obviously the higher the number the better the specs.

in the real world and out in the wild its going to be very hard for you to discern a unit with a 1700 fom vs a 1900 fom. unless youre looking at a resolution chart or something along those lines, youre just not going to see it.

as to the good day optic...that's a given I would think but you know what assume gets ya. id figure someone dropping $5k on a clip on would have a damn good day optic already.