Evaluate My New Reloading Setup/Procedure

[TSpork]

Hey guys,

It’s been years since I’ve reloaded, and even then it was just plinking rounds on a Lee turret press. Since I’m getting into precision, I’ve decided to redo my whole reloading setup.
So far I have from old setup that I plan to reuse:

Lyman manual
Lee Manual
(maybe another manual)
Tumbler
Calipers
Loading trays
Media separator
Walnut media
Small digital scale
Hornady cam-loc bullet puller
Spare single stage lee (used for bullet pulling only)
Lee primer pocket cleaning tool

Newly bought:
Forster Co-Ax
Labradar
RCBS Chargemaster
200 Lapua brass
100 178 ELD-M
100 175 SMK
Varget

Going to buy:
Lanolin
alcohol
Forster full-length sizer die
Forster micrometer seater die
Hornady length gauge
Hornady Lock and Load 308 Case
Lock and Load Head Space Gauge
Lock and Load Comparator Body
Lock and Load Anvil Base
Forster Trimmer
Forster 3-way Trimmer head
Forster Power Adapter
30 Cal cam lock sleeve
Frankford Arsenal hand primer (possibly)

Here’s the plan:
Since I’ve never reloaded for precision before, I’m still trying to figure this out, so correct me if I’m wrong

Use the calipers and Hornady LnL head space gauge to measure off one of my old fired case of FGMM. Get that number, and minus 0.002”, and that should be my bump on my full length sizer die.

Lube each of the cases with 10:1 lanolin/alcohol mix. Let the mix dry. Size a piece of piece of brass with the Forster full length sizer and use the calipers and LnL head space gauge to measure how much bump I’m getting. Keep screwing my die down and measuring until I achieve that 0.002” bump. Once I get the desired bump, lock down the die and that’s it.

Size all my Lapua brass so that it has that 0.002” shoulder bump. Tumble my brass to remove the lube.

Trim the cases using the Forster trimmer and 3-way cutter combo. Keep trimming until I get to my desired length.

Prime cases using my Co-Ax press or the Frankford Arsenal hand primer if I decide to buy it.

Next use the Hornady 308 case screwed onto the length gauge. Seat either an ELD-M on the case and push forward until it contacts the rifling. Use that case, calipers, and comparator, and anvil base to measure the base to ogive length for that bullet. Write this number down and repeat with an SMK.

Seat bullets using the Forster micrometer seater die. Measure this with the calipers and the Hornady comparator. Seat bullets long then tune the seater so that there is 0.020” of jump to the rifling (so that the base to ogive length is 0.020” shorter than measured with the Hornady length gauge).

Charge cases on the chargemaster and pour into cases. Seat bullets and I’m good to go.

I plan on seating on various powder charges, loading up 0.3gn at a time. About 10 rounds each so I can shoot a couple groups of 5.

Probably about 50 ELD-Ms and 50 SMKs to test for accuracy/velocity and then go from there.

Am I missing anything? Precision reloading is new to me, and lots of these tools and setting these dies up are new to me. I believe that is how’s done though. Anything I should do differently?

If it all looks good, I'm going to order what I'm missing in the next day or two

 

[30cal user]

.02 bump on shoulder

And you haven’t mentioned neck measurements for seating force/neck tension and not all bullets like .020 jump, prob need to test .010 .015 etc

 

[footsteps]

Is there an instructional video for reloading greenhorns/ wannabe reloaders like myself.

 

[30cal user]

A ton on YouTube, but you seem to have it

 

[30cal user]

This section has all you need to know on the sticky threads

 

[spife7980]

.02 bump on shoulder

And you haven’t mentioned neck measurements for seating force/neck tension and not all bullets like .020 jump, prob need to test .010 .015 etc

Woooooah, I’m sure it’s a typo but... .002, not .02. .02 will give you case head separations I’m short order. Let’s be more careful in our recommendations. Spork has it right himself in the op.

And seating depths can come after his first round of testing.

@TSpork you seem to have been reading up, you’re going to do just fine. You have throughly covered the process and seem to understand exactly what needs to be done. Don’t worry about the neck tension alterations and measurement mentioned above, that’s for later once youve found a load and want to tinker to make it better, focus on the equipment you’re already planning on.

Is there an instructional video for reloading greenhorns/ wannabe reloaders like myself.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCyPEnjRX7ebb28MKusD6VfMZlnsNkpK0

 

[TSpork]

.02 bump on shoulder

And you haven’t mentioned neck measurements for seating force/neck tension and not all bullets like .020 jump, prob need to test .010 .015 etc

Woooooah, I’m sure it’s a typo but... .002, not .02. .02 will give you case head separations I’m short order. Let’s be more careful in our recommendations. Spork has it right himself in the op.

And seating depths can come after his first round of testing.

@TSpork you seem to have been reading up, you’re going to do just fine. You have throughly covered the process and seem to understand exactly what needs to be done. Don’t worry about the neck tension alterations and measurement mentioned above, that’s for later once youve found a load and want to tinker to make it better, focus on the equipment you’re already planning on.


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCyPEnjRX7ebb28MKusD6VfMZlnsNkpK0

Thanks guys for the feedback! @spife7980 ya I was planning on playing with seating depth/jump later on. I figured it would be too many variables to try and work on at the same time. I figure I’ll find a load that shoot some well and then play with seating depth on my next range trip. Otherwise I’d have a ton of different possible combinations going on st the same time.

I forgot to mention I was going to decamp using my Lee Universal decapping die.

What I seem to be confused about is the expanding part of the full length sizer. Some say that I should pull out my expander and use a different die for that? I was planning on doing that operation at the same time I full length size.

I was just putting my shopping cart together right now and of course everyone is out of stock on the Forster .308 full length sizer die.

 

[spife7980]

The expander ball and the expander mandrel do the same thing, just in inverse ways.

As a fired case is inserted into a die the expander ball slides through a fired neck freely into the case before the case has any sizing done to it. As the case is inserted deeper into the die the neck is sized down above the expander ball. When the case is removed from the die the expander ball is forced through the now smaller neck which now opens it up to the proper diameter.

The part circled in red is the actual forster expander ball, its typically bullet diameter-.002". Normal sizing dies typically size brass the internal diameter down to to .004-.010 under loaded neck diameter. The expander ball opens it up for the proper amount of .002" of tension.


You can remove the expander ball from your sizing die and instead use a separate mandrel in a second step. The case gets sized down like with any sizing die in the first step only instead of dragging the ball out of the neck when extracting the case from the die you instead force the mandrel into the neck (or the neck around the mandrel) to open it up to the proper diameter in step two.

So you cant do an expanding mandrel step "at the same time" on a single stage press, it will require handling the case for two sizing operations (twice as many handle pulls). With a progressive press you can perform multiple steps on multiple pieces of brass with the same pull of the handle. Not with a single stage. Just to clarify for you.

Traditionally the mandrels were used to prep brass for neck turning. The "expanding" mandrel is .001" under bullet diameter, the "turning" mandrel is .002" under. Now that we are using these mandrels for case prep beyond neck turning we actually use a turning mandrel, we just use the term expander mandrel as reloading lexicon slang. Its not the actual "expander mandrel" its just a "turning" mandrel used for expanding.

The turning mandrel and the expander ball should both be the same diameter and should give the same result. Many claim that dragging the ball out of the neck can lead to run out (off center necks), probably due to the different thicknesses of brass through out the cases body bending differently as they are pulled on. Forcing the mandrel down into the case should ignore the cases construction differences but instead keep the neck perfectly centered. Or so goes the theory.

That said Ive not noticed any differences on paper between using the ball and the mandrels but I will also admit to not having fully vetted that. I get good results from both. So this is getting into the weeds of bench shooting more so than for field shooting like most here do. When I get time Id like to run a test of the die with expander ball, the die with a turning mandrel, the die with a expanding mandrel and the die with only bushings but then of different diameters as well. But thats a lot of work and something I just hope to get around to eventually.

 

[TSpork]

The expander ball and the expander mandrel do the same thing, just in inverse ways.

As a fired case is inserted into a die the expander ball slides through a fired neck freely into the case before the case has any sizing done to it. As the case is inserted deeper into the die the neck is sized down above the expander ball. When the case is removed from the die the expander ball is forced through the now smaller neck which now opens it up to the proper diameter.

View attachment 6986219

The part circled in red is the actual forster expander ball, its typically bullet diameter-.002". Normal sizing dies typically size brass the internal diameter down to to .004-.010 under loaded neck diameter. The expander ball opens it up for the proper amount of .002" of tension.


You can remove the expander ball from your sizing die and instead use a separate mandrel in a second step. The case gets sized down like with any sizing die in the first step only instead of dragging the ball out of the neck when extracting the case from the die you instead force the mandrel into the neck (or the neck around the mandrel) to open it up to the proper diameter in step two.
View attachment 6986208


So you cant do an expanding mandrel step "at the same time" on a single stage press, it will require handling the case for two sizing operations (twice as many handle pulls). With a progressive press you can perform multiple steps on multiple pieces of brass with the same pull of the handle. Not with a single stage. Just to clarify for you.

Traditionally the mandrels were used to prep brass for neck turning. The "expanding" mandrel is .001" under bullet diameter, the "turning" mandrel is .002" under. Now that we are using these mandrels for case prep beyond neck turning we actually use a turning mandrel, we just use the term expander mandrel as reloading lexicon slang. Its not the actual "expander mandrel" its just a "turning" mandrel used for expanding.

The turning mandrel and the expander ball should both be the same diameter and should give the same result. Many claim that dragging the ball out of the neck can lead to run out (off center necks), probably due to the different thicknesses of brass through out the cases body bending differently as they are pulled on. Forcing the mandrel down into the case should ignore the cases construction differences but instead keep the neck perfectly centered. Or so goes the theory.

That said Ive not noticed any differences on paper between using the ball and the mandrels but I will also admit to not having fully vetted that. I get good results from both. So this is getting into the weeds of bench shooting more so than for field shooting like most here do. When I get time Id like to run a test of the die with expander ball, the die with a turning mandrel, the die with a expanding mandrel and the die with only bushings but then of different diameters as well. But thats a lot of work and something I just hope to get around to eventually.

Thank you for the excellent explanation! I was wondering how the mandrel got in the case if the neck was already closed up some. It makes sense that it does it when entering the case, and not doing out when exiting like the expander ball.

Any thoughts on testing for velocity nodes vs group nodes when doing load developments?

 

[spife7980]

If you have access to 600 yards go for a ladder test, you see where close charge weights result in the same impact point on the target at distance.
http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html

If you are restricted to 100 yards go for the OCW, you look for where close charge weights all have a similar point of impact to one another. If you laid all the different charge weight targets on top of one another you would be looking for where they are all the same location.
http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/ocw-instructions/4529817134

I use both depending on the wind conditions and whether I feel like driving out to the 500 yards line or if I just want to stay on one side of the creek. I even do a hybrid where I shoot a ladder only I shoot it three times and look where the groups line up instead of where the single impacts are.


Whatever you do, do it methodically and purposefully. Dont just shoot random loads and look for the smallest individual group, smallest group can be finicky and not reliable. The smallest group I have ever shot was not reproducible. You want to look for group center locations at first, not group size. Once you find a charge weight region where your results down range dont shift on the target with a tenth or two of powder then you can focus on seating depth to adjust bullet timing to make the groups smaller.


There is also the Saterlle method which many refer to as a ladder test... but its not. Its a chrono number test. They just go off of chrono numbers for a small sample size. If you have your process narrowed down and know from the get go where you expect stuff to work it can be a great time saver. Ive seen too many people claim that their SD was 3 for a three shot group only to find that it actually shoots like shit. I think of this are more of a process for people on their second or third barrel of the same type, theyve studied it enough and have it all sorted out so they dont have to adjust their variables. They know this bullet in this situation does x, you dont know that data yet for your system.
http://www.65guys.com/10-round-load-development-ladder-test/

 

[30cal user]

Yes, .002, very bad brain fart on me

 

[TSpork]

Yes, .002, very bad brain fart on me

Happens to the best of us

 

[TSpork]

If you have access to 600 yards go for a ladder test, you see where close charge weights result in the same impact point on the target at distance.
http://www.6mmbr.com/laddertest.html
View attachment 6986241


If you are restricted to 100 yards go for the OCW, you look for where close charge weights all have a similar point of impact to one another. If you laid all the different charge weight targets on top of one another you would be looking for where they are all the same location.
http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/ocw-instructions/4529817134
View attachment 6986242



I use both depending on the wind conditions and whether I feel like driving out to the 500 yards line or if I just want to stay on one side of the creek. I even do a hybrid where I shoot a ladder only I shoot it three times and look where the groups line up instead of where the single impacts are.


Whatever you do, do it methodically and purposefully. Dont just shoot random loads and look for the smallest individual group, smallest group can be finicky and not reliable. The smallest group I have ever shot was not reproducible. You want to look for group center locations at first, not group size. Once you find a charge weight region where your results down range dont shift on the target with a tenth or two of powder then you can focus on seating depth to adjust bullet timing to make the groups smaller.


There is also the Saterlle method which many refer to as a ladder test... but its not. Its a chrono number test. They just go off of chrono numbers for a small sample size. If you have your process narrowed down and know from the get go where you expect stuff to work it can be a great time saver. Ive seen too many people claim that their SD was 3 for a three shot group only to find that it actually shoots like shit. I think of this are more of a process for people on their second or third barrel of the same type, theyve studied it enough and have it all sorted out so they dont have to adjust their variables. They know this bullet in this situation does x, you dont know that data yet for your system.
http://www.65guys.com/10-round-load-development-ladder-test/

Shooting the smallest group was probably what I was going to do. lol. Now I have a lot better direction. Thank you for the advice! believe me, it won't be wasted!

The range I go to has 600yds, but you can't go out there. it's steel only. So it looks like I may be doing an OCW test. This test assumes a same point of impact and aim with no adjustment to the scope correct? Is loading 10 rounds for each charge excessive then for this test? The range is a little over an hour away so I can't make it there super often. So i'm trying to knock out as much of it in one trip as possible

 

[spife7980]

You will have a target for each charge weight, it’s not one single aim point like a ladder test. I like to put them all in a row side by side. A 100 yard ocw at the same aimpoint would just be one big indecipherable pile of mess.



No, don’t adjust your turrets. Load a couple sighters just to make sure you’re zeroed close to your aim point. With ocw you’re wanting to see where each charge weight impacts in relation to the aim point compared to the other charge weights to try and map the barrel harmonics. Adjustments in the middle would ruin that comparison.

10 rounds? It’s a bit excessive. For my first round of ocw where I have zero clue about where I might find accuracy I will usually load a wide varrience of charge weights with three rounds per charge weight. But I can shoot this off my parents back porch and I do it every weekend. If you have to make an rare excursion to test then load up five rounds per. More data is always more informative. Smaller spacing between charge weights will further increase the amount of data to draw insights from.

 

[TSpork]

You will have a target for each charge weight, it’s not one single aim point like a ladder test. I like to put them all in a row side by side. A 100 yard ocw at the same aimpoint would just be one big indecipherable pile of mess.



No, don’t adjust your turrets. Load a couple sighters just to make sure you’re zeroed close to your aim point. With ocw you’re wanting to see where each charge weight impacts in relation to the aim point compared to the other charge weights to try and map the barrel harmonics. Adjustments in the middle would ruin that comparison.

10 rounds? It’s a bit excessive. For my first round of ocw where I have zero clue about where I might find accuracy I will usually load a wide varrience of charge weights with three rounds per charge weight. But I can shoot this off my parents back porch and I do it every weekend. If you have to make an rare excursion to test then load up five rounds per. More data is always more informative. Smaller spacing between charge weights will further increase the amount of data to draw insights from.

Thanks, I’m going to just that. Should I be going to smaller increments than just 0.3gn? Maybe 0.2 would be better? Also all the stuff was ordered last Friday and is coming Thursday. But I’m still waiting for my full length sizer since it’s on backorder. If the virgin Lapua brass measures shorter when using a headspace gauge when compared with my once fired FGMM brass, can I load those without resizing?

 

[spife7980]

.2 increments will be better if you have the time to make and shoot that many charges.

Yes, you can load lapua and fire. Once fired they shold more closely match your previously fired fgmm. Virgin lapua has tight neck tension so just be aware that when bullet seating is sort of tough thats why.

 

[TSpork]

.2 increments will be better if you have the time to make and shoot that many charges.

Yes, you can load lapua and fire. Once fired they shold more closely match your previously fired fgmm. Virgin lapua has tight neck tension so just be aware that when bullet seating is sort of tough thats why.

I’m going to do just that then! Find a starting charge, load 5, and go up in increments of 0.2gn! I’ll make sure to start a full grain before what my reloading manual says because I’m using Lapua brass

 

[TSpork]

For 178gn bullets, there’s not much data. I should use 180gn data right? Because 175gn data may cause an over pressure?

 

[dttheliman]

Varget and R15 are good powders in .308 there are plenty of other powders that work as well. enjoy

 

[spife7980]

For 178gn bullets, there’s not much data. I should use 180gn data right? Because 175gn data may cause an over pressure?

5 grains difference wont be all that much, its only 2.5% difference in weight . The difference in bearing surface will play a much larger influence on the pressure than just the simple mass of it.

Here s a clip of varget data from hodgdons reloading center. Notice that for the 168s the difference in max load from a barnes copper bullet to a sierra lead core is 1 grain. Thats really due to the material differences in its bearing surface. Notice that for the lead bullets that the max is the same between 175 and 180 gr and that the lighter 168 max is only one grain higher. The lighter copper 168 is the same max as the heavy 180 lead bullet.

Obviously none of these are gospel so take them with a pinch of caution, work your loads up, your lapua will have a smaller internal volume than the thin wall winchester that these suggestions from hodgdon were based on. Start at 41 grains and work up until you find pressure. https://www.primalrights.com/library/articles/understanding-pressure



Edit, just one more thing: I have only really fully vetted one chambering for all bullet weights (a dozen different bullet types maybe?) with one powder option in one type of brass, my 223 and 8208xbr. My good charges are always somewhere between 23.5-23.8 for everything from a lighter weight 50 gr up to a heavier 75 gr. So while thats not a super big spread its still a difference of 1/3 of the total weight but the ideal charge is always right there it seems so the weight has little to do with it. So dont get super wrapped up in what the 5 gr difference between a 175 and a 180 are, the manuals etc are there to be conservative and safe guides, not a be all end all resource. Just stay away from going too much higher and youll be just fine.

 

[TSpork]

Merry Christmas guys!

Thank you all for the great advice. It really cleared everything up.

Best wishes and I hope you’re all relaxing and enjoying it with loved ones

 

[Marksman_92]

Id like to make a small recommendation to your process that I learned from a youtube video about the Hornady OAL gauge. The guys channel is Hornady Loader , however he is not affiliated with Hornady in any way. At the end of the video he talks about using the modified case as you mentioned above to get you OAL measurement. He points out in the video that more than likely your brass will not be the same size as the modified case so in theory you will not actually be .020 off the lands when you load your Lapua case. You have to take a headspace measurement off of the modified case compared to your lapua case and subtract the difference to get yourself a true .020 off the lands. It is somewhat hard to explain in this txt but i recommend watching Hornady Loaders video of the OAL gauge and towards the very end of the video he explains what I am talking about. He sound like an older gentleman in the video so you know you have the right one. Hope this helps.

 

[TSpork]

5 grains difference wont be all that much, its only 2.5% difference in weight . The difference in bearing surface will play a much larger influence on the pressure than just the simple mass of it.

Here s a clip of varget data from hodgdons reloading center. Notice that for the 168s the difference in max load from a barnes copper bullet to a sierra lead core is 1 grain. Thats really due to the material differences in its bearing surface. Notice that for the lead bullets that the max is the same between 175 and 180 gr and that the lighter 168 max is only one grain higher. The lighter copper 168 is the same max as the heavy 180 lead bullet.


View attachment 6988399


Obviously none of these are gospel so take them with a pinch of caution, work your loads up, your lapua will have a smaller internal volume than the thin wall winchester that these suggestions from hodgdon were based on. Start at 41 grains and work up until you find pressure. https://www.primalrights.com/library/articles/understanding-pressure



Edit, just one more thing: I have only really fully vetted one chambering for all bullet weights (a dozen different bullet types maybe?) with one powder option in one type of brass, my 223 and 8208xbr. My good charges are always somewhere between 23.5-23.8 for everything from a lighter weight 50 gr up to a heavier 75 gr. So while thats not a super big spread its still a difference of 1/3 of the total weight but the ideal charge is always right there it seems so the weight has little to do with it. So dont get super wrapped up in what the 5 gr difference between a 175 and a 180 are, the manuals etc are there to be conservative and safe guides, not a be all end all resource. Just stay away from going too much higher and youll be just fine.

Just now noticed your edits! Thank you for that little extra tidbit

 

[TSpork]

Id like to make a small recommendation to your process that I learned from a youtube video about the Hornady OAL gauge. The guys channel is Hornady Loader , however he is not affiliated with Hornady in any way. At the end of the video he talks about using the modified case as you mentioned above to get you OAL measurement. He points out in the video that more than likely your brass will not be the same size as the modified case so in theory you will not actually be .020 off the lands when you load your Lapua case. You have to take a headspace measurement off of the modified case compared to your lapua case and subtract the difference to get yourself a true .020 off the lands. It is somewhat hard to explain in this txt but i recommend watching Hornady Loaders video of the OAL gauge and towards the very end of the video he explains what I am talking about. He sound like an older gentleman in the video so you know you have the right one. Hope this helps.

Got around to watching that video, and it ends up my new Lapua brass has exactly the same headspace. Or should I be measuring off my once used FGMM brass instead?

Right now i'm having bullet seating woes, but I'm going to start a new thread about that

 

[Marksman_92]

Got around to watching that video, and it ends up my new Lapua brass has exactly the same headspace. Or should I be measuring off my once used FGMM brass instead?

Right now i'm having bullet seating woes, but I'm going to start a new thread about that

Measure whatever brass you will be using for your load work up. Dont interchange brass brands as each have their own unique volume. I believe youll want to measure a sized case as well if I remember correctly.

 

[Marksman_92]

For reference.

 

[TSpork]

Measure whatever brass you will be using for your load work up. Dont interchange brass brands as each have their own unique volume. I believe youll want to measure a sized case as well if I remember correctly.

View attachment 6996534For reference.

that’s what I used to calculate, but my virgin Lapua brass was the exact same as the Hornady Gauge. Maybe I should use the measurement of one of my once fired FGMM rounds, and deduct 0.002”. Because that would be my actual chamber size -the shoulder bump

 

[spife7980]

that’s what I used to calculate, but my virgin Lapua brass was the exact same as the Hornady Gauge. Maybe I should use the measurement of one of my once fired FGMM rounds, and deduct 0.002”. Because that would be my actual chamber size -the shoulder bump

Does your virgin brass fit in the chamber? If so dont size it anymore, all that will do is shorten its life.

The only reason to ever size virgin brass (beyond mandrel neck expansion) is if you have a short chamber and it requires you to do so. If your go headspace gauge fits in your chamber and your brass matches that headspace gauge (shoulder angles etc set aside) then you are already short of your max headspace and all sizing it more will do it to make it stretch more on firing.

Edit: On going back and looking at the video I see what you mean, the modified case matches your virgin brass, not a gauge. I was thinking a head space gauge like so

But the if your brass chambers my "dont size it anymore" comments still stand. That is looking for bullet seating depths, not shoulder locations. To figure out your shoulder measurements, note the vigin spec just to have it recorded, sure, but what you care about for resizing is the fired lengths.

I skip those hornady rods and just use my chamber to tell me

 

[clcustom1911]

.2 increments will be better if you have the time to make and shoot that many charges.

Yes, you can load lapua and fire. Once fired they shold more closely match your previously fired fgmm. Virgin lapua has tight neck tension so just be aware that when bullet seating is sort of tough thats why.

This.

As well as virgin Lapua brass has A LOT less case capacity that FGMM brass. A charge in FGMM that fires fine with no pressure signs will likely have a bit of heavy bolt lift with Lapua brass.

I learned that in person when I first started reloading 308 and had to yank 50 rounds of Lapua I put together. I had to reduce my charge weight by ONE WHOLE GRAIN.

 

[TSpork]

Does your virgin brass fit in the chamber? If so dont size it anymore, all that will do is shorten its life.

The only reason to ever size virgin brass (beyond mandrel neck expansion) is if you have a short chamber and it requires you to do so. If your go headspace gauge fits in your chamber and your brass matches that headspace gauge (shoulder angles etc set aside) then you are already short of your max headspace and all sizing it more will do it to make it stretch more on firing.

Edit: On going back and looking at the video I see what you mean, the modified case matches your virgin brass, not a gauge. I was thinking a head space gauge like so
View attachment 6997577

But the if your brass chambers my "dont size it anymore" comments still stand. That is looking for bullet seating depths, not shoulder locations. To figure out your shoulder measurements, note the vigin spec just to have it recorded, sure, but what you care about for resizing is the fired lengths.

I skip those hornady rods and just use my chamber to tell me

Gotcha, I think I understand what you're saying. Yes they all chamber just fine without sizing. Measuring my shoulder, my once fired measure 1.6280 and my virgin Lapua measure 1.6240. But according to the formula, shouldn't I seat my bullets according to a 1.6260 (once fired - 0.002) since that will be the case as soon as I fire the brass one time? If I seat it according to the virgin brass, I'll actually be jumping an extra 0.002 since the virgin brass is 0.002 smaller than my once fired and resized brass would be?

And damn I wish I saw that technique before buying the Hornady gauge

 

[TSpork]

This.

As well as virgin Lapua brass has A LOT less case capacity that FGMM brass. A charge in FGMM that fires fine with no pressure signs will likely have a bit of heavy bolt lift with Lapua brass.

I learned that in person when I first started reloading 308 and had to yank 50 rounds of Lapua I put together. I had to reduce my charge weight by ONE WHOLE GRAIN.

It says that min is 42.0 and Max is 45.0 for Varget. I was going to start at 42.0 and work up in 0.2 increments. Should I start at 41.0 and max out at 44.0 then?

 

[clcustom1911]

It says that min is 42.0 and Max is 45.0 for Varget. I was going to start at 42.0 and work up in 0.2 increments. Should I start at 41.0 and max out at 44.0 then?

You definitely could. I would just start at 41 and go up in .4 or .5 increments up to 45. If you wanna just shoot more, then go up in .3 increments.

My prime brass is a full 10 grains heavier on average than my Hornady brass. That was a similar difference that my Lapua brass was heavier than my FGMM brass.

So, I'm starting at 38g of RE-17 and H4350 and going .5 increments to 43 grains of each. I have a feeling I'm going to top out prior to 43 grains.

My last "node" was with 41.7 grains of Re-17. If my intuition is correct, I should be doing good when I hit 40.5-41 grains.

 

[spife7980]

Gotcha, I think I understand what you're saying. Yes they all chamber just fine without sizing. Measuring my shoulder, my once fired measure 1.6280 and my virgin Lapua measure 1.6240. But according to the formula, shouldn't I seat my bullets according to a 1.6260 (once fired - 0.002) since that will be the case as soon as I fire the brass one time? If I seat it according to the virgin brass, I'll actually be jumping an extra 0.002 since the virgin brass is 0.002 smaller than my once fired and resized brass would be?

And damn I wish I saw that technique before buying the Hornady gauge

Yeah you should but I think you’ll find .002” isn’t much variance at all, 100 rounds fired and you might get that much erosion. Run it on another day and you might find your measurement changed .002 from the last test. Use a another bulls to test and you might find that difference. You’ll end up doing a seating depth test before you’re done as the last stage of ocw probably and you’ll get your actual hard measurement for bullet seating there. This to the lands measurement is just a good point of reference. You’ll see if in 500 rounds they have eroded a bit, you’ll know that you aren’t jamming the bullets, you’ll know pretty close to how much jump they like. It’s absolute location in space isn’t quite as necessary to know, but it’s general relative location is a very handy piece of data.

This isn’t a pace maker going in someone’s heart, it’ll be fine if you’re .002 off of your measurements for nasa.