Advanced Marksmanship Expectations of Accuracy Ranging w/ Reticle

[Subwrx300]

I'm curious if any experienced PRS, ELR or match shooters can help answer this question:

What is a good expectation for consistent (95% confidence) accuracy when ranging with reticle? To clarify, i only mean conifdence that range is correct. Particularly for ranges from 500-1500 yds with various target distances.
My question is geared towards the practical expectations of accuracy while ranging with MOA reticle; not how to range, but how much consistency/reliabilty do competition shooters place in there reticle ranging? For example, can an elite shooter consistently (95%+) resolve a 2 MOA target to +-1 yard, 5 yards or 25 yards? Any information or actual stats on hit percentage at various UKD ranges would be helpful.

Also, If you have experience in PRS matches or similar, after being prone and ready to range, how fast does an elite shooter aquire, reticle range, solve wind and create fire solution? It currently takes me about 5-10 seconds to get MOA read (usually two or three reads and take the average) and about 10-20 seconds to do the math and dial solution for vertical. Wind is about 10 seconds for observation at different points and solution within 10-15 seconds.

I shoot at a 1000yd UKD range in Michigan and am relatively new to UKD ranging past 600 yards. I have begun shooting in local 600yrd FTR matches and practice with the MI-FTR Team so I'm familiar with shooting long range. I use a NF ATACR with the MOAR Reticle.
I know how to reticle range through reading, practicing the math, shooting UKD and even extensive practice on ShooterReady. I feel fairly confident in my ranging skills, however, without an experienced reference point (PRS match shooters, accomplished ELR shooter on UKD targets, etc) I don't know what to expect.

MODs: If this post needs to move, please do so and let me know for future reference. I thought this would be relevant to optics but there may be a better area. Thanks!

 

[Subwrx300]

Still no takers? Everyone must be at matches!

 

[Lowlight]

It was never designed to be used beyond 800m, your cannot ELR range with a reticle you have to triangulate with a compass and pace.

Its for minute of man, within your personal danger space which is 600m

beyond 800m you have too big an error factor, less than .1 will cause a miss.

 

[Subwrx300]

Thanks Lowlight. While wasn't designed for much past 800, wouldn't it depend on target size and magnification? For example if I have a 72" target and 10x glass at 1000 vs 25x glass, it would seem far easier to resolve the 25x glass at longer ranges. It would also seem to reduce error. I ask because I'm curious how/what PRS shooters do for UKD range at 1100-1500yds (if that even exists in competition.).

Given that new scores are capable of 25x or more or would seem like it becomes possible to range even at ELR distances under the right conditions. Granted I understand there are limits to this technique but curious how far some of the SH shooters have used reticle ranging. Thanks again for reply!

 

[Subwrx300]

Forgot to say they many LRFs won't reliably pickup past 800-1000 unless targets are designed to be highly reflective. Unless you pay $3k for lrf that is...

 

[Lowlight]

Nobody shoots anything that big...

I have shot plenty of PRS matches, they use very small target in most cases, a 72" target is unheard of in any competition. Our mile shot was on a 2x4 sized target.

If you want to range a truck you can do it, but most targets in matches never get wider than 18" or 30" tall. We shoot all UKD targets at the Cup, but allow lasers cause people spend a lot for them so why not. Our average target is 10" - 12" with a few 16" beyond 1k.

The average UKD stage is between 600 and 800, at K&M last year it was inside 500.

 

[Lowlight]

The Terrapin does, it's $2k and works every time

 

[Subwrx300]

That's awesome! Thanks for the reply! So working from 900 yds or less with reticle is sufficient for PRS style matches without lrf?

How accurate are you guys with reticle ranging? Within 5, 10, 20 yards? I think I'm in need of a solid 1000yd lrf to help verify reticle range. Any suggestions given your experiences on the line?

 

[Subwrx300]

I'll check out the Terrapin... Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Lowlight]

Just enough to hit, which is why PRS guys tend to shoot stuff like the 6CM going 3180fps, very little drop, it makes up for ranging errors.

Most of those matches only have 1 or 2 UKD stages and everyone knows the range by the second shooter. All the other stages are KD.

ASC is UKD but the targets haven't moved in 10 years, the CUP is UKD but I don't require you to use the reticle, though I may do one stage next year.

Ranging is a legacy skill, not even the military focuses on it much any more. It's nice to know and something to practice, but hardly practical. Even in the military you use a map, reference point, but especially a laser. Look up, RULR, STORM, etc... It's only a school thing.

 

[epaultmbt]

Take your given tgt size and do the math in 0.1 mil increments. There's quite a bit of err in there from reading 0.7 or 0.8. At decent ranges and reasonably small tgts that's a miss depending on bullet/vel. The bigger the tgt for a given range the more accurate the passive range estimation. We don't see many "big" tgts at matches and I can't yet mil to the 0.01.

Your best bet is to make a drop sheet for a mil reading for a given tgt size. I add range for wind calc.

10"tgt
mil rng hold
1.2 231 0.4
1.1 252 0.5
1.0 277 0.7
0.9 308 0.9
0.8 347 1.2
0.7 396 1.5
0.6 462 2.0
0.5 555 2.8
0.4 694 4.0

Or hold center and watch for impact.

 

[Subwrx300]

Very good info. Are most PRS stages running consistent target sizes? From stage to stage throughout match? I.e. 18x24 silhouette or IPSC?

I'm very interested in finding precision steel match but info is sporadic at best (at least with the searches I've done). I've been looking for a steel match in Michigan or Ohio to keep travel costs down. Any good sites or clubs with match info?

 

[Subwrx300]

Just enough to hit, which is why PRS guys tend to shoot stuff like the 6CM going 3180fps, very little drop, it makes up for ranging errors.

Most of those matches only have 1 or 2 UKD stages and everyone knows the range by the second shooter. All the other stages are KD.

ASC is UKD but the targets haven't moved in 10 years, the CUP is UKD but I don't require you to use the reticle, though I may do one stage next year.

Ranging is a legacy skill, not even the military focuses on it much any more. It's nice to know and something to practice, but hardly practical. Even in the military you use a map, reference point, but especially a laser. Look up, RULR, STORM, etc... It's only a school thing.

Lowlight, BTW I'm a newer member to SH and just realized you started SH. Wanted to say thanks for all of the great info here and it's easily one of the best (of not THE best) resources I've ever found on Long Range precision shooting. Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions! Looking forward to watching the training segments in the Hide.

BR,
Francis

 

[Lowlight]

Targets sizes vary from match to match. And very few use full sized IPSC except for a few stages. ( usually positional shooting stages) with a UKD stage you might see a 2MOA target so 12"@600 yards, maybe smaller.

target sizes range from 2MOA to 1MOA in size with a few smaller ones tossed in for good measure.

Tactical precision rifle matches are not like 3 gun where you can count on specific target. It's a wide mix.