Extra dose of irony for an anti-gun person

[W54/XM-388]

The Irony here is a bit too much to pass up.

Move to the USA from Australia and spend your time going on about how bad gun violence is in the USA and how much better Australia is.
Do the "responsible" thing according to you and call the police when you think something is a miss... get shot dead by police...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-States.html

 

[WaltHer]

That's too bad. I guess.

 

[MtnCreek]

I'm sure the cop feared for his life.

 

[JSTARSZ]

I am sure there is an interesting story this but it didn't come out in the news piece.

 

[308pirate]

She didndonuffin

 

[supercorndogs]

I am not sure there is irony here. Sounds to me like someone who is afraid of their own shadow, slaughtered some poor lady in an alley and deafened his partner for no reason.

 

[Slash0311]

How bout every one not jump to a fucking conclusion before we know what the fuck really happened.

​​​​​​

 

[vh20]

How bout every one not jump to a fucking conclusion before we know what the fuck really happened.

​​​​​​

Yeah, there's really no useful information in that story as-written. Too much left to the imagination. Got to be something else to it, justified or not.

 

[2ndamendfan]

I too fail to see any irony. Shitty situation for sure. Just because she is from Australia doesn't mean she was anti-gun. Many on this forum are living there right now. I haven't seen anything yet that says she was some anti-gun activist. And even if she was, that isn't a reason to be shot.

 

[atomic41]

How bout every one not jump to a fucking conclusion before we know what the fuck really happened.

​​​​​​

That would be nice but you're being way too logical for the cop hating crowd. I live near there. It's a nice neighborhood full of rich liberals. The neighborhood is on edge from recent break ins. There was one a few days earlier on the same block. From the local paper:

"Three sources with knowledge of the incident said Sunday that two officers in one squad car, responding to the 911 call, pulled into the alley. Damond, in her pajamas, went to the driver’s side door and was talking to the driver. The officer in the passenger seat pulled his gun and shot Damond through the driver’s side door, sources said. No weapon was found at the scene"

We are definitely not getting the whole story here. Police don't just roll up and assassinate people. They also don't risk their partner's safety by shooting across them, inches from their face unless some sort of big threat presented itself. Every time an officer pulls the trigger, they are risking their career and possible jail time so can we just be logical for a minute before jumping on another cop hating train and wait for the actual facts this time?

 

[W54/XM-388]

I too fail to see any irony. Shitty situation for sure. Just because she is from Australia doesn't mean she was anti-gun. Many on this forum are living there right now. I haven't seen anything yet that says she was some anti-gun activist. And even if she was, that isn't a reason to be shot.

From the article:

"Friends of the woman told the Star Tribune that she had often spoken out against gun violence and told 'how much better' things were in Australia. "

It's ironic as she preached that things would be better if only the police had guns nobody would get hurt.

 

[...]

who goes lurking around an alley at 11:30 at night in their PJs?.......especially if you think there is an "intruder" out there?

part of me wonders if this was a planned "stunt" to evict a police response, and it got out of hand.

 

[Guest]

Behavior does not match the story.

 

[Slash0311]

The bottom line is that the details of what exactly happened haven't been released. We may never know the full story.

No amount of speculation will help. We can't allow ourselves to fall into the trap of a false story line reported in the media. I've got just as many questions as the next guy but we have to stay out of the way and let the investigation run its course.

Good or bad, a woman died and likely a police officer's career is probably over.

 

[pmclaine]

Investigate the facts.

There is more to the story but why waste a tragedy when there is a narrative to push?

Perhaps it will end up being a case of negligence or professional malpractice

or there is more to the story.

Are they leaving out the fact that said anti gun person was checking on the possible prowler in the alley with her own .38 caliber revolver than when she sees the police she decides to go up to the cruiser and knock on the window with the .38 barrel. Police see disheveled woman with revolver in hand inches away from partners head and junior officer fires across partner to save his life.

My last sentence speculation is as likely the possibility as the lack of facts presented in that news story.

I dont know about you guys but drawing a handgun from a retention holster inside a car is an operation. Did we have a long arm between the legs of the passenger seat officer that went off. Was passenger seat officer retrieving the long arm from its cradle and sling, gear or whatever got into the trigger bow causing an ND?

The other scenarios make more sense than "cop shoots women for no reason other than he wants to spend life in jail".

Don't fall for the media "Fake News".

 

[2ndamendfan]

From the article:

"Friends of the woman told the Star Tribune that she had often spoken out against gun violence and told 'how much better' things were in Australia. "

It's ironic as she preached that things would be better if only the police had guns nobody would get hurt.

fair enough.

 

[Sean the Nailer]

Investigate the facts.

There is more to the story but why waste a tragedy when there is a narrative to push?

Perhaps it will end up being a case of negligence or professional malpractice

or there is more to the story.

Are they leaving out the fact that said anti gun person was checking on the possible prowler in the alley with her own .38 caliber revolver than when she sees the police she decides to go up to the cruiser and knock on the window with the .38 barrel. Police see disheveled woman with revolver in hand inches away from partners head and junior officer fires across partner to save his life.

My last sentence speculation is as likely the possibility as the lack of facts presented in that news story.

I dont know about you guys but drawing a handgun from a retention holster inside a car is an operation. Did we have a long arm between the legs of the passenger seat officer that went off. Was passenger seat officer retrieving the long arm from its cradle and sling, gear or whatever got into the trigger bow causing an ND?

The other scenarios make more sense than "cop shoots women for no reason other than he wants to spend life in jail".

Don't fall for the media "Fake News".

For the way/manner in which that article was written, I'd say that everyone is being paid to swallow the pill which the author is offering. Except everyone is lining up, voluntarily. Please remember, in the "news", it isn't "what is happening" near so much as "this is what I want you to know...."

And you have to weigh the information given with the eye of a skeptic and the brain of an intellect. Otherwise, you're just a houseplant existing on whatever your being fed. That 'light' you're leaning towards might be the sun. Or it might just be a lamp that someone else can turn on and off at THEIR will.

Think about that concept, people.

So much about this story doesn't make sense. And yet, at the same time, look how many words there are, how many pictures there are, and how many links there are. How long were you on that site for, and how many 'OTHER' stories caught your attention? How many OTHER things did you click on?

Much to that, there. (quote from another...)

 

[pmclaine]

Oh Oh.

Police officer is black, woman is white.

How the F are they going to make hay of this?

Maybe he was "white black".

Named Mohammed Noor. Somali American. first of his identity to join the force.

Maybe "blue on blue"?

A trifecta.

Great world we have created when that is even pertinent.

 

[bogeybrown]

atomic41 , Since you live near there, could you describe the extent of the rioting and protest marches? For some reason I can't find any news coverage on it?

 

[pmclaine]

I think the social justice warriors have to decide on which cause they want to push with this so many choices and some tough decisions to be made.

Maybe the police officer was checking her immigration status when he decided "Screw the plane flight back to Oz"

Perhaps she wasn't wearing a veil and Sharia law took its course.

Maybe he screwed up and instead of attacking the Great satan he pissed off the people that brew Fosters - White people, they all look alike.

Race, religion, sexism, violence, oh the angles we can chase instead of actually investigating what happened figuring it out and trying to prevent it ever happening again while at the same time not screwing with the rights of the other 350m people in the country.

 

[diverdon]

http://silenceisconsent.net/first-s...rl-cold-blood-wont-believe-disgusting-reason/

Iit turns out that the officer was a Somali, send them all back where ever thr fuck they came from, we don't need that kind of policing here in America.

 

[MtnCreek]

Diversity achieved.

 

[pmclaine]

Main stream media seems to be more concerned with spinning this that body cams were not on, less concerned about facts of why women is dead.

 

[MtnCreek]

Maybe nobody told him it was a body cam and he just assumed it was his suicide vest destruct button.

 

[Edds]

atomic41 , Since you live near there, could you describe the extent of the rioting and protest marches? For some reason I can't find any news coverage on it?

Information about the rioting will be easier to find if the black officer is convicted for shooting a white woman.

 

[Slash0311]

That's my problem with body cams. Unless you have them recording 24-7, there are some calls where you just may not have time to turn it on. It's not that an officer is intentionally leaving it off but that's how defense and media will spin it.

 

[WaltHer]

Maybe nobody told him it was a body cam and he just assumed it was his suicide vest destruct button.

Heehee!

 

[ArmyJerry]

cop went home safe that night. whats the issue?



The throttling of the SJW mentality would be funny as hell if it wasn't so sad, the linguistical gymnastics is beyond belief.

 

[ArmyJerry]

I am guessing she was a goddam vampire, she started to turn, with fangs and shit, he slapped a mag full of silver bullet 9mm in there and saved his partner. By time the other cops and emts showed up she morphed back into a nice aussie lady in pajamas, fangs and finger nails receding before witnesses showed up. Oh yeah, because she was a vampire none of this shit showed up on the body cams . Yeah, that's the story.

That would be nice but you're being way too logical for the cop hating crowd. I live near there. It's a nice neighborhood full of rich liberals. The neighborhood is on edge from recent break ins. There was one a few days earlier on the same block. From the local paper:

"Three sources with knowledge of the incident said Sunday that two officers in one squad car, responding to the 911 call, pulled into the alley. Damond, in her pajamas, went to the driver’s side door and was talking to the driver. The officer in the passenger seat pulled his gun and shot Damond through the driver’s side door, sources said. No weapon was found at the scene"

We are definitely not getting the whole story here. Police don't just roll up and assassinate people. They also don't risk their partner's safety by shooting across them, inches from their face unless some sort of big threat presented itself. Every time an officer pulls the trigger, they are risking their career and possible jail time so can we just be logical for a minute before jumping on another cop hating train and wait for the actual facts this time?

 

[308pirate]

Police don't just roll up and assassinate people.

Not for lack of trying

 

[Clearlight]

Just saw a news conference , was about as useful as tits on a bull .
Was hoping to get the skinny on the skinny , but he's obviously gone to
ground on legal advice .

 

[diverdon]

We are definitely not getting the whole story here. Police don't just roll up and assassinate people. They also don't risk their partner's safety by shooting across them, inches from their face unless some sort of big threat presented itself. Every time an officer pulls the trigger, they are risking their career and possible jail time so can we just be logical for a minute before jumping on another cop hating train and wait for the actual facts this time?

Are you talking about cops in America or cops in Somalia? Because we need a "diverse" police force to make sure that ordinary folks can experience the same fear of police that criminals have when they encounter them.

 

[diverdon]

Good or bad, a woman died and likely a police officer's career is probably over.

Would you prefer to allow this thug to continue to masquerade as a police officer abusing any woman who offends him?

 

[Slash0311]

Would you prefer to allow this thug to continue to masquerade as a police officer abusing any woman who offends him?

Still not enough information being put out there for me to make a judgement. If you have inside Intel, please share. I'm not in a position to defend or burn him at the stake yet.

 

[diverdon]

Slash I've read stories that say he has three outstanding complaints based on the way he relates to white women while on "the job." One complaint includes twisting another womans arm and imprisioning her after she called the police for help. It might turn out that I am jumping the gun, but yeah I'm ready to send him to prision and the rest of the Somali comunity back to Africa.

Even if it turns out he was some how justified (how would that work again?) then instead of sending him to Jail send him back to Africa.

 

[308pirate]

Matthew Harrity, who has been with the Minneapolis Police Department for one year, and Mohamed Noor, who has been with the department for 21 months, were the responding officers to the scene after Justine Maia Ruszczyk called 911 to report a possible assault near her home, the Minnesota Department of Public Safety announced in a press release Tuesday night.

Harrity was driving the squad car, while Noor was in the passenger seat, according to the DPS. As they neared Ruszczyk's home, Harrity indicated that he was startled by a loud sound near the car, after which Ruszczyk immediately approached the driver's side, Minnesota DPS said.

Noor then fired his weapon, striking Ruszczyk through the driver's side window, which was open, according to the DPS. The officers provided medical assistance to Ruszczyk until EMS arrived, but she was pronounced dead at the scene.

Harrity was interviewed by investigators Tuesday, but Noor declined to be interviewed, the DPS said. The Minnesota DPS Bureau of Criminal Apprehension cannot compel Noor to testify, and Noor's attorney did not provide clarification on when, if ever, an interview will take place.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/officials-r...ry?id=48713014

Not enough information, huh?

Looks like two-jumpy ass cops, one shooting first and then not answering questions later.

I wonder how the cop apologists are going to spin this one?

 

[pmclaine]

No one is going to spin anything.

If the guy fucked up than let him suffer the consequences of his actions and be responsible.

We are getting the society we continue to elect our officials to provide us.

You are considered a child now until your 26.

I meet 40 year old men on the verge of tears because their car has a flat and they don't know what to do.

People get to default on loans with no repercussions. Why not when the tax payer bails out the banks doing same?

Society wants to install unsuitable people into positions just to satisfy their vision of Utopia.

Unqualified kids go to college than the curriculum gets watered down to pass them. We all suffer.

Meanwhile trades are frowned upon and we end up with hacker craftspeople.

America has to strap on a set of balls before things will improve.

Don't entirely blame the line cop for this shit.

Govt/Command operates on a zero risk mentality.

Officers are not supposed to put themselves in risky situations.

Wait for backup, SWAT is being called out, don't pursue, don't engage the wrong way driver.........

Im not advocating John Wayne policing but the people doing the job need to understand there is risk involved. What the hell is the good pay for otherwise?

They are not being taught that with the zero risk mentality. Training emphasizes "someone will be along shortly to hold your hand".

Nope, not the way it works. Sometimes you don't get to go home or you have to do something that ensures the Mom in the minivan goes home but you might not. If it isn't that way why does society need cops?

Sounds like the two guys in this car might make the statement "No one told me that this might be dangerous".

As insulated as our society is from danger....only one percent fight our wars and for the most part, except in liberal shitholes crime is nonexistent....the only thing they worry about is killing themselves in a traffic fatality.

Cops are just a reflection of society. The same ratio of fuck ups in society are present in a police uniform. They put themselves there, they should know the position has a higher standard of responsibility, hold them accountable to the standard.

 

[Slash0311]

Well hell. That's enough for me. Where's the rope? Who's got the pitchforks and torches?

Come on. ABC news?! I'm surprised they didn't blame this on the Russians. Media spins shit as bad as defense attorneys.

As for not submitting to an interview. He has rights of protection just like anyone else. Seeing how fairly he's being g treated here, I don't blame him.

If it's really true the he was that jumpy, then get rid of him for sure but how about waiting till all the facts are in.

 

[pmclaine]

Well hell. That's enough for me. Where's the rope? Who's got the pitchforks and torches?

Come on. ABC news?! I'm surprised they didn't blame this on the Russians. Media spins shit as bad as defense attorneys.

As for not submitting to an interview. He has rights of protection just like anyone else. Seeing how fairly he's being g treated here, I don't blame him.

If it's really true the he was that jumpy, then get rid of him for sure but how about waiting till all the facts are in.

Agreed.

Without being an "apologist"......

We are all willing to consider it "fake news" when it comes to our politics but when other of societies institutions are being attacked by the same politicized media its gospel?

If the Mike Brown shooting happened today would we be believing the news?

What was the result of that investigation by no bigger politicized POS than Eric Holder?

These media chosen high profile incidents are running about 75% or so justified when the facts come out. There are cops in jail right now when the investigation revealed otherwise.

Look at the cases, Why are they chosen to be high profile? When the case is presented is the media using a picture of the "victim" from ten years ago rather than their current self?

If the story gives you a sudden gut reaction than you are likely being manipulated and the gut reaction you feel was what the media wanted to create.


Oh we have learned a lot since Goebbels about manipulating people on a mass scale.

 

[MtnCreek]

Right off the bat there was enough info to figure the cop fucked up. I'm not on his jury (will he ever face one???), I'm just commenting on what little I've read on this. Middle age, middle class white woman that appears to have taken care of herself; does anyone think she was walking up to the patrol car to start shooting cops (well, except the african that shot her)? This is not M Brown or Saint Travon.

 

[pmclaine]

Right off the bat there was enough info to figure the cop fucked up. I'm not on his jury (will he ever face one???), I'm just commenting on what little I've read on this. Middle age, middle class white woman that appears to have taken care of herself; does anyone think she was walking up to the patrol car to start shooting cops (well, except the african that shot her)? This is not M Brown or Saint Travon.

"Right off the bat......."

So why even have a trial the media has provided the facts. Fry him.

Not only since Goebbels have the propagandists improved their craft, the people they feed it to are more likely to accept it.

Thank you Department of Education.

A man with a suicide vest blows himself up in a concert the media cautions "Don't jump to conclusions".

A cop shoots someone they focus their reporting toward "Police brutality".

Lets let the facts play out. I cant possibly understand a reason to justify this shoot but I don't know all the facts and I am certain the media is not presenting them all.

If the cop had said "Allahu Ahkbar" as he fired do you think the media would report that fact? Would it change your understanding of this story if such were the case?

Its all speculation on our part while the media tries to subtlety manipulate you into their desired spin on the story.

This is not excuses. It doesn't look good for the cop one bit. If the facts are as presented there is no excuse.

 

[MtnCreek]

Investigate it. If that leads to a grand jury and trial, follow through and be fair. But that's not my job. I can read through a good bit of the bullshit in media articles, whether it's about an "Asian" in London or a good boy in some US hood that was turning his life around. I'm not anti-cop and have friends in LE (is that today's equivalent of saying I have a black friend?).

 

[pmclaine]

Mtn,

Its apparent to the powers that be that they chose the wrong events to make their offensive on.

Trayvon and Mike Brown had backgrounds that do not gain the sympathy of the populace.

The victim in this case easily grabs the attention of the population.

Lots of wedges to hit society with in this case.

One side says why all the sympathy for the "Middle age, middle class white woman that appears to have taken care of herself" yet the seeming lack of empathy for others outside of that description that feel slighted for not getting the same sympathy? Is it skin color or is it the understanding one was committing a strong arm robbery prior to the event in question?

More gas on the race division fire.

A black officer shoots a white women.

More gas on the race division fire.

Upper Middle class women dies gets sympathy yet multiple dozens get shot in Chicago every weekend no one gives a crap.

More gas on the class war as well as the racial divide.

Things never work out perfectly for the left but they make hay with what they have. Im sure they would have preferred a white, NRA, Tea Party, Trump supporting officer had pulled the trigger.

The rage over the election and the fake news Russia story might be running their course. The media is going to have to return to stirring up those core poisons that corrode our society.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Oh we have learned a lot since Goebbels about manipulating people on a mass scale.

The interesting thing is that the government of the USA under Woodrow Wilson engaged in a huge campaign of "opinion shaping" and then outright suppression of any free speech that opposed them.
Goebbels actually studied the books by Edward Bernays and others and admired their mastery of shaping public opinions.

Then later on those same people also went to work for big mega corporations and started influencing both public opinion, foreign policy & domestic policy to suit those that paid them.

For the quick notes on one of the originals:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays

(Just to show how genius he was, one client says they are tired of paying to dispose of industrial waste... he says.. I'll get people to pay you to drink it.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_relations_campaigns_of_Edward_Bernays


As well as some of the later ones who carried on the work of propaganda for the populace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_S._Herman
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky


If you really are interested in a deep read on how everything you hear is shaped and want to read it from the original masters:
Crystallizing Public Opinion, Bernays, Edward
Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media, Herman, Edward S.
Public Relations, Bernays, Edward L.

 

[pmclaine]

Yep listening to talk radio in a major market area (Boston) and ignorant mofos calling in to say stupid shit like "if this can happen to a white woman....."

The media was given an instrument and they are playing it like a Stradivarius.

I had so hoped shit would get better after November.

 

[Rthur]

What criteria would have to met for an officer to unholster his weapon?
What criteria has to be met for an officer to draw down on a potential perp?
What criteria has to be met to allow an armed engagement of possible perp?
These questions aren't asked to implicate this officer.
I'm looking for a better understanding of ROE in this case to have a better understanding when and if the "facts" are released.

R

 

[Slash0311]

What criteria would have to met for an officer to unholster his weapon?
What criteria has to be met for an officer to draw down on a potential perp?
What criteria has to be met to allow an armed engagement of possible perp?
These questions aren't asked to implicate this officer.
I'm looking for a better understanding of ROE in this case to have a better understanding when and if the "facts" are released.

R

There really aren't any ROEs but most departments have use of force policies. Basically, any time and officer feel threatened, he can unholster. Obviously, every situation will be different and pointing a firearm always carried risks and shouldn't be done lightly. There is a general rule that we are 1/4 second behind anything because of reaction time. Most officers I've seen on the range can generally draw from a holster on be on target with a hit in about 1/2 to 3/4 of a second so that means most officer's are already a second behind in a gunfight just from reaction times.

 

[Maggot]

Sounds like the driver was shocked about the shot.

 

[diverdon]

Well hell. That's enough for me. Where's the rope? Who's got the pitchforks and torches?

Come on. ABC news?! I'm surprised they didn't blame this on the Russians. Media spins shit as bad as defense attorneys.

As for not submitting to an interview. He has rights of protection just like anyone else. Seeing how fairly he's being g treated here, I don't blame him.

If it's really true the he was that jumpy, then get rid of him for sure but how about waiting till all the facts are in.

Of course you are right, I'm just having a failure of imagination. Can you decribe to me a set of facts that might come in which would justify this shooting? Austrilian Prime Minister Turnbull was on TV making a speech demanding answers about how this shooting could have happened. What set of facts might come out that would you would be comfortable delivering to him to justify this shooting?

Slash, I agree with what you are saying but unless the facts already provided are wrong I can't see how this goes anyplace good.

Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull is demanding answers in Damond’s shooting, calling it “inexplicable” and referencing the fact that Damond had called 911 herself to report a possible crime in the alley behind her house. “How can a woman out in the street in her pyjamas seeking assistance from the police be shot like that?” Turnbull asked, according to ABC Australia. “It is a shocking killing, it is inexplicable.”

 

[Slash0311]

There are too many possibilities to even hazard a possibility on circumstances.

All I've said along is to not jump to conclusions. Let the investigation take its course. There are videos out there of stupid shit happening. (I can think of one from Vargas I think. Fat female officer with bad guy on on ground. Nerves get the best of her and she pops off a round right next to the guy's head.. bad juju)

There are bad shoots and stupid cops. But we should give them the benefit of the doubt until the investigation proves otherwise.

I would also agree that as more information is coming out, it's not looking good.