Gunsmithing Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

[vlcruz2001]

Had to break out the cleaning rod the 2nd time in the last 2 matches for failure to extract case. Not sure what the issue is? I think it's either the extractor or my handloads. But I have been using the same load off the same 8lb keg and same lot of 155 scenars for the last year. No extraction issues or pressure issues. Maybe the factory extractor is going south. So I swapped the extractor with a new one I keep in my field kit. I'll have to see if that fixes it the next time I go shooting. Has anyone had extraction issues with the factory Remington extractor? I am thinking of getting a Sako type extractor put on, but not sure how much better they are. Any feedback would be great.

Thanks

 

[Hateca]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

Yes the factory extractor can fail but it's not a common occurrence. More then not the extractor will fail after someone has taken it out to say paint the rifle then puts the old extractor back in, or some other operator error. This should not be done. Or the extractor has crap or crud behind it that cleaning the bolt face will fix.

If you put in a new one and if you did a good job you should be fine.

I don't recommend the Sako in a Remington for several reasons. If you must have an aftermarket extractor for your .308 or less get the M16 type. Same goes for the magnums once the factory rivet fails.

Every try and put in or replace a Sako extractor in the field? Or have one blow out and have the parts land in the dirt? If you have a field rifle you are better off with the factory extractor or the M16 type if you must.

 

[Country]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

I have been using Sako's for 40 years and never had an extractor "blow out into the dirt " or even fail at all.

 

[gamma]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Country</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been using Sako's for 40 years and never had an extractor "blow out into the dirt " or even fail at all.


</div></div>
Country,are these Sako installs your talking about,and never a problem. This and other forums have me terrified of the ones Ive installed on customer rifles,Im even getting nightmares,really. Was planning on even doing a recall. What you think,should I relax a little or what.

 

[Hateca]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Country</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been using Sako's for 40 years and never had an extractor "blow out into the dirt " or even fail at all.


</div></div>

The rifle or the Sako bolt mod? There's a difference.

If you're talking the bolt mod you're lucky man. On the same note I've never had a Remington extractor fail so were even. If you're talking the rifle, totaly different subject.

There are several top builders and others, including me, that will not garentee the reliability of Sako extractors in a Remington designed bolt for just this reason. Guys have a tendency to load hot and do crazy things with there reloads. If you don't think so check out the re-loading section. The Sako is not a captured extractor meaning there is no pin or other fixed mechanical device holding it to the bolt, hot loads or even normal loads can and will blow out the extractor.

The Sako in a Remington style bolt is in a piss poor position. This can cause issues with ejection, bouncing the brass back into the receiver, usually facing the wrong way.

So for 40 years you have gotten lucky my friend or just don't shoot enough to experience all that can happen.

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

I have to agree with Country on this one. I've installed quite alot of Sako extractors in Remington bolts and I've used many PTG bolts with Sako cuts from PTG and never experienced any failures. I have seen numerous Remington extractor failures due to a build up of brass particles behind the extractor but I have not experienced any real breakages. Now having said that, on my own actions I chose the M16 extractor because it is easier for field service than the Sako. The only issue I have with either is the 2 o'clock ejection angle.

 

[our gang]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

I have/have had a gunsafe full of 721, 722 & 700 models. The only one that ever failed was a 700 Classic 300 Weatherby Magnum rebarreled to 244 Holland & Holland which is a very hot number. Tore off two of the riveted extractors and went to a SAKO. All problems vanished.

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

All in all, I'm not a fan of the Remington extractor. As you've illustrated, it's a weak link and I've had numerous failures to extract because of the particles I mentioned. I do like the Sako as long as I relieve the rear of the receiver at the 2 o'clock position so the spent case doesn't bounce of the receiver and land right back in the action. The M16 is even better than the Sako. Very positive extraction and I've experienced no failures to extract.

 

[Hateca]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have seen numerous Remington extractor failures due to a build up of brass particles behind the extractor but I have not experienced any real breakages. Now having said that, on my own actions I chose the M16 extractor because it is easier for field service than the Sako. The only issue I have with either is the 2 o'clock ejection angle. </div></div>

That's not an extractor failure that’s operator error or a non-maintenance issue, far from an extractor failure.

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

That is a total extractor failure due to a very poor design. If you're shooting in a match where the course of fire is only 60 rounds and the extractor isn't designed well enough to extract 60 rounds, that has nothing to do with the guy running the bolt. If the rifle is used extensively by someone that has poor maintenance practices, that is neglect. Not operator error. Operator error is short cycling the bolt or some other issue related to poor handling of the rifle. I know there are fans of the Remington extractor and I'm cool with that, but I've been the guy in a match that fell victim to the Remington extractor. I've not been that guy with the Sako and especially not with the M16. Is the Sako a field serviceable component? I don't recommend it. Is it a better extractor than the Remington? That's relative. I've made it through many matches with the Sako and the M16.

 

[Hateca]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

So you're knocking the design of the Remington extractor because one fails to keep the bolt nose clean of crap and then calling that an extractor issue. Then you install a Sako or M16 that is in a piss poor position on the Remington bolt so much so that you mod the action to get it to extract and eject correctly.

Yeah you’re right it's the Remington extractor all right.

You might want to call the USMC and the Army and let them know all those Remington extractors they're using are all fucked up.

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

In this case it has nothing to do with the cleanliness of the bolt face. My bolt face was perfectly clean. You also might try running a bolt in a dynamic situation on a Remington SA with a Remington extractor and you'll discover that you get the same shell bounce as you do with aftermarket extractors. I've illustrated this in many audiences. As you told Country, maybe you should shoot more. After spending nine years at Quantico, I think the USMC knows what they need to know about the Remington extractor. 'Nuff said.

 

[Hateca]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

Shoot more that's good, maybe I'll just do that.

Right now I have a combined total of more then 10,000 rounds in three current rifle utilizing Remington extractors without replacing one extractor due to failure, and countless rounds I can't even count with others rifles I no longer have, or that were department owned. Out of all of those I can count on one hand the number of extractors that I have had to replace and most of those were the riveted type.

In 20 years of building rifles I can count on my other hand how many Remington extractors I had to replace that wasn’t caused by someone screwing with it, a couple of those were riveted type. Can’t say that for the Sako in a Remington however. I guess I've just been lucky. You can keep your Sako extractor I’ll stick with the Remington and if I must in a magnum an M-16 type.

One other thing there is nothing you can tell me about running a Remington in dynamic situation.

I guess I'll just go back to shooting now. Like you said nuff said.

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

Impressive resume'. I congratulate your success and good fortune. Throughout your disertation I was reflecting on the comments that brought two total strangers to the point of argument on a public forum over such a simple matter and didn't figure out the real problem until your last comment. Once one reaches the point that they can't be told anything because they apparently think they already know it all is the real reason behind an argument. My attempt in posting on this thread was to add something a little greater than your sophmoric approach to what can be and has been a problem for a great deal of shooters. As rifle builders, it is our responsibilty to provide a greater wealth of knowledge and offer a bit of versatility through our own experiences and through our years of doing what we do. If you had no, or few failures in regards to Remington extractors, that's great! But it doesn't mean it never happens. If you want to beat the base drum for Remington extractors, more power to you. I have other experiences as does any number of other rifle builders that create countless circumstances and most of us may not agree, but my eyes <span style="font-weight: bold">AND</span>ears are always open to the other possibilities that I may not have experienced. I build rifles that are highly reliable in all conditions based on what I've experienced, and yes, my Sako extractor installs are guaranteed to work without ending up in the dirt. If you want to challenge that, I'll be more than happy to send you one of my rifles to test. I agree with you that the location isn't ideal, but with a little more work on an action that was designed for hunting in 1962, the total package of improvements is well worth it. Its called innovation and overcoming a challenge. That's what we're supposed to be doing as rifle builders.

 

[AK10mm]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

From a Remmy 700 owner and shooters point of view,what is the best extractor to have in my rifle?Just leave the factory one alone unless something breaks,or is there a reliable upgrade?BTW,mine is a 300WM.

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

Sandrat,
If its not broke, I wouldn't mess with it. If it needs attendtion, I've had great success with the M16 extractor from a reliability and field service standpoint. I use the "Mini" M16 extractor from PTG on Remmy bolts and on my own action. The magnums probably benefit a little more so than the lower pressure rounds. I will install the Sako if requested to do so and I will guarantee them.

 

[300sniper]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skunkworks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Impressive resume'. I congratulate your success and good fortune. Throughout your disertation I was reflecting on the comments that brought two total strangers to the point of argument on a public forum over such a simple matter and didn't figure out the real problem until your last comment. Once one reaches the point that they can't be told anything because they apparently think they already know it all is the real reason behind an argument. My attempt in posting on this thread was to add something a little greater than your sophmoric approach to what can be and has been a problem for a great deal of shooters. As rifle builders, it is our responsibilty to provide a greater wealth of knowledge and offer a bit of versatility through our own experiences and through our years of doing what we do. If you had no, or few failures in regards to Remington extractors, that's great! But it doesn't mean it never happens. If you want to beat the base drum for Remington extractors, more power to you. I have other experiences as does any number of other rifle builders that create countless circumstances and most of us may not agree, but my eyes <span style="font-weight: bold">AND</span>ears are always open to the other possibilities that I may not have experienced. I build rifles that are highly reliable in all conditions based on what I've experienced, and yes, my Sako extractor installs are guaranteed to work without ending up in the dirt. If you want to challenge that, I'll be more than happy to send you one of my rifles to test. I agree with you that the location isn't ideal, but with a little more work on an action that was designed for hunting in 1962, the total package of improvements is well worth it. Its called innovation and overcoming a challenge. That's what we're supposed to be doing as rifle builders. </div></div>

so uh, how much do you charge to replace an oem remington extractor with a sako or m16 style and modify the receiver so it doesn't hit? how much do you charge to leave an oem remington extractor in place?

 

[BlackOps Tech]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

Of course there's no charge for leaving a Remington extractor where it is. If you look at my website, you'll see that I offer an Accurized Remington SPS Tactical for $899. The rifle goes out the door with zero markup and the factory extractor remains in the bolt face. The rifle costs me $499.99 and that is what the customer pays for it because I am sensitive to costs and want to offer something for everyone. My extractor upgrades are a very small part of much larger builds but if I'm asked to replace an extractor, I do it for $200. This includes making the filler for the bolt face that replaces the factory extractor so there's no gap that grabs the rim of the spent cartridge.

 

[GunjunkieM24]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

Well,
I really have no interest in getting into a pissing contecst here but I do have some input based on my personal experience...

I have used the Factory extractor with mixed results. I had a VSF that was purchased in 2008 and it had exctly 47 rounds of ammo through it before the extractor failed. I would challenge anyone to prove to me that it was a maint. issue or "operator error". I build rifles for myself and have done so for about 10 years I guess and have been shooting remington rifles for about 20 years. This particular rifle was a NIB remington when I traded for it. The only thing I could find was that it evidently had some hardness issues with the little tooth and it bent forward resulting in the case slipping out before it extracted. There was nothing unusual about the last round that it tried to extract, the ammo was factory. The case came out with little effort using a cleaning rod. The factory extractor was replaced with another remington for now and has been working fine every since.

With that being said, I have many other remingtons that have many thousands of rounds on the actions and factory bolts with several different barrels and only one other extractor replacement between them. It broke right at the tooth after about 1.5K rounds

As for the Sako and M16 style, I have ordered them exclusively on any receiver that I ream oversize and utilize a PTG bolt with. I have never had either one of them fail or come apart from the bolt. They do not eject in an optimal spot but I have not had issues with them

Also understand that 90% of my shooting is done from a bench and handloads are kept moderate in all of my rifles. The rest is in the field when I get the opportunity to go hunting.


Jut my 02 cents worth.

 

[SPM]

Re: Extraction problems on my 308 Rem. 700.

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that sako extractors could be unsafe in a Remington because of the three safety designs on the action. I have heard that it can blow back through the bolt into the shooters face. Could be peaches could be lunch meat, who knew? SPM