F/L die with bushing, or without

[memilanuk]

Been using Redding Type S F/L bushing dies for many years, with pretty decent results. Used to use the floating carbide expander ball; more recently, using a separate expander mandrel.

Looking for a new F/L sizing die, and contemplating going with a non-bushing die for a change.

Anyone here using a non-bushing die for F/L sizing, and then setting the neck ID with an expander mandrel?

 

[Vitali1342]

Switched over a year ago to F/L -mandrel system on almost all of my calibers , no regrets so far ! Produces very consistent ammo .

 

[Vitali1342]

Most of the time using turning mandrel though.

 

[918v]

A standard sizer will overwork the neck, and even with an expander mandrel the neck tension will be too great. Unless you get a FL die with a custom diameter neck. Forster does that.

 

[Vitali1342]

A standard sizer will overwork the neck, and even with an expander mandrel the neck tension will be too great. Unless you get a FL die with a custom diameter neck. Forster does that.

+ 1 for 918v . I also use Forster FL custom honed dies .

 

[fxdrider]

Anyone here using a non-bushing die for F/L sizing, and then setting the neck ID with an expander mandrel?

Switched over a year ago to F/L -mandrel system on almost all of my calibers , no regrets so far ! Produces very consistent ammo .

Count me in. Made the switch back to non-bushing FL sizer and expander mandrel 2 years ago. I'm liking it.

 

[memilanuk]

I was looking at a Whidden 'custom' die, with a neck of .333" (for a .308 Win), since I've been using either a .333 or .334 bushing with my match brass (neck turned to 0.014" thick). Hadn't even really thought about the Forster. Didn't realize they would hone the necks for that cheap.

Hmmm... might have to see if I have one of those squirreled away here somewhere...

 

[Sheldon N]

Honed Forster dies and mandrel here.

I say go for 0.004 under loaded round neck OD, then bring it back to final dimension with a mandrel. 21st century is coming out with those mandrels in half thou increments so you could get a set and even test different neck tension.

 

[Tony1320]

I've been using a Redding Type S FL bushing die with no expander ball for the last year or so with great results

This year I experimented with using the expander ball that comes with the die and then a separate mandrel. I haven't been able to tell any difference on target or lab radar

Right now I'm back to using the redding type s fl bushing die with no expander ball in it and that's it

 

[whatsupdoc]

I use custom neck honed FL sizing dies and bushing dies, brass sized with the custom honed neck dies have slightly better runout than brass sized with the bushing die. There is no accuracy difference that I can see between the two.
The bushing die has the advantage if you use different brands of brass.

 

[memilanuk]

Honed Forster dies and mandrel here.

I say go for 0.004 under loaded round neck OD, then bring it back to final dimension with a mandrel. 21st century is coming out with those mandrels in half thou increments so you could get a set and even test different neck tension.

That's pretty close to what I'm doing now, with my Redding Type 'S' F/L bushing die and K&M mandrels (0.001" increments). .333 or .334 bushing, .306 expander, yields necks that are just over .305 ID (.305- pin gage slips in, .3055 gage stops on the mouth).

I honestly haven't done a lot of testing with different neck tension, but the values i have currently seem to work pretty well. Basically I want to have another die set up for my Co-Ax, so I don't have to tear apart my 550 tool head when I want to do something specific. More of a convenience / excuse to buy something I don't already have, than something I think I *need*

Kinda weird that Forster F/L sizing dies seem to be out of stock damn near every where, at least in .308 Win

 

[Brux]

I to have got away from the bushing dies and went to the honed out Forster dies.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

I recently jumped from a .308 Type S & mandrel over to a standard Whidden FL die w/ their various sized expander buttons.

From a concentrcity perspective with unturned palma brass, I actually get better numbers with the Whidden and .308 sized expander (giving me .0015 interference) than I did running a .336 or .337 floating bushing. Go figure. I'm annealing via AMP before hand, but I know that's still working the brass a lot.

I will say I enjoy the simplicity of it, and not having to run everything back through the press to mandrel expand. That said, a lot of the guys I shoot with have started using 'pin gauges' (effectively just mandrels for dirt cheap), and turning down the edges in a drill press to aid in alignment. You can get the pins in .0005 increments, and they're only like $5 per.

I do agree with others though, that so long as you're sticking with your reamer and your brass (I suspect you are), that a custom non-bushing die is probably a pretty good option. Heck, for as little as Forster charges, you could probably get 2-3 of them in various neck sizes for what you'd drop on a bushing die + bushings.

 

[Ranger188]

+1 on the Forster FL custom honed die. Have one for a couple calibers. One less step and no problems with run-out.

 

[MOUNTIC]

That's pretty close to what I'm doing now, with my Redding Type 'S' F/L bushing die and K&M mandrels (0.001" increments). .333 or .334 bushing, .306 expander, yields necks that are just over .305 ID (.305- pin gage slips in, .3055 gage stops on the mouth).

This is pretty much exactly what I have going on with the 306 expander. Works well.

 

[memilanuk]

For the guys who've gone the honed Forster die route... did you buy it direct from Forster already honed, or did you send it in to have it done? If you sent it in, what was the turn-around time? Turns out I have a Forster .308 NM (national match) F/L die sitting on the shelf, so I'll be giving them a call on Monday

@MikeMcCasland I was kind of eye-balling a Whidden custom die for much the same reason you mentioned. I ran my Redding Type 'S' F/L bushing die with a .334 bushing and the floating carbide ball expander for a long, long while, and racked up some pretty damn good scores with it at the time. Doing everything (sizing + expanding) in one pass sure was nice. Between the .334 bushing and necks turned to 0.014", the .306" expander ball would just 'kiss' the inside of the case mouth on the way out - enough to make sure everything was round, but not enough to drag or stretch.

TBH, I don't really recall why I moved *away* from that config in the first place. Peer pressure? Probably because I 'convinced' myself that I 'needed' to be able to play with both the bushing and expander size for some obscure reason...

 

[Ranger188]

Go here and choose caliber from pull down and go lower and see where you can
put in what you want the neck to be. Takes about a week plus shipping time.
If not sure, than always go .001-.002 tighter, than you can order a custom mandrel if your to tight.
Too loose and it's a paper weight

Full Length Sizing Dies – Forster Products

Order according to the profile of the specific cartridge.

www.forsterproducts.com

 

[Sheldon N]

For the guys who've gone the honed Forster die route... did you buy it direct from Forster already honed, or did you send it in to have it done? If you sent it in, what was the turn-around time? Turns out I have a Forster .308 NM (national match) F/L die sitting on the shelf, so I'll be giving them a call on Monday

I bought a used die, had the seller drop ship it to Forster. I think the turnaround was something under 2 weeks, not bad at all. I think they hone dies on Thursdays or something like that?

 

[memilanuk]

I'd seen somewhere else that they have a max amount that they'll open up the neck... something like 0.008", due to the depth of the hardening? Anyone heard/encounter that? I'm pretty sure I'd still be well within that range, mostly just curious.

 

[Ranger188]

If you click on the link, it's says no more than .008
You can call them directly, you get someone in the front office and if they can't answer your
question, theirs someone else close by that can. Small machine shop. Been there. Good people.
If you tell them what caliber your looking at, they will tell you the "standard" size they ship
and if you don't want that size you can then order the custom honed. it's always tighter.

 

[memilanuk]

TBH, I hadn't clicked on it today, as I'd already been on their site last night... and they seem to be 'out of stock' of damn near everything. Same for ordering the dies from distributors - everybody shows 'out of stock' for the calibers I'm interested in. Either business is boomin', or not...

Like I said, I already have a .308 National Match die, so I'll call them and get that sent in to see how this works.

 

[Ranger188]

My last one, i ordered from Brownells and then I sent to them to have honed out.
Not sure what the problem is. i think their very busy with all their products.
Like I said, a small shop in a small town. Probably don't want to hire people
and then might have to lay off down the road.