F T/R Competition F-Open-if you were gonna build

[Firefour]

My tactical rig is not cutting it shooting F open, so going to have a dedicated F open rig built--600 yd matches only (maybe 1-1k a year)
Four questions to help with my decision making---Thanks

Caliber
Action
Stock
Barrel make, dia.

 

[XTR]

Six hundred is a very different animal from 1000. There are a lot of low recoil open calibers that will work really well at 600 that get eaten alive by the 7's at 1000.

The 6.5-284 is hard to beat, barrel life is an issue but you could get an off the shelf Savage F class for under $1000 and be running.
I've seen a 260Rem with a long barrel win at 1000. At 600 it would probably really rock. Short action, good barrel life, lots of components.
I'm not familiar with them but the BR/BRX type chamber might do really well.
A guy I shoot with has built a 22BR for long range sling shooting. A 90Berger at 3000+FPS with almost no recoil might be hard to beat and might be an option.


I built a 223 to shoot in TR at 600. Berger 90s shoot with the 185s for effectively zero recoil. It's a fun rifle.


There a lot of things that would make a really good specialized 600 yard gun. If you want it to go all the way to 1000 you need to look at what (if anything) you give up to the big 7s and if you need it.

 

[Bruno]

What action is your tactical rig? Maybe just a new barrel to switch to is all you need... Why is your tactical rig not cutting it? Specs on the tac rifle? Optics?

 

[Okie Gordon]

Since you live in Tulsa you probably shoot at Red Castle.
If so, you have some of the best people around to ask that very question of.
Just go to the match and ask.
Rick Jensen and Dean Morris to mention two, but there are a number of others.

 

[Donald]

My choice would be the 284 if you were only wanting one rig the 264s cals do very well at 600 and do okay at 1000 as long as its not blowing to hard

 

[BC 6.8]

In the 600 yd benchrest world there are many records being broken with the 6 Dasher. I've heard of some people using them in F-Open as well. Most people are running 105-108 gr Bergers, but there are the 115 DTACS with impressive BCs. You would need a faster twist barrel to shoot them though. That would be the lowest recoil option for F-Open with good barrel life.

 

[Firefour]

I've read where the .284 is in the growing trend,,but after shooting the 06, 308, 6.5-284 for years, my ole body is just tired of recoil. Spoke with a few at the match, did lots of looking and listening.
Noticed some 6br's, and a 6-6.5x47 doing well. I'm thinking along the lines of 6br, 6.5x47, or 6 dasher would shoot well, if I do my part, in a full f open rig, plus recoil would be mild.
Yes, it's usually windy at red castle. They say if you can shoot there you can shoot about anywhere.

 

[Jedi]

if recoil is an issue run F-TR and 223 with vlds, pert much like shooting a BB gun
plus you only compete against other F-TR rigs so its not an equipment race.

 

[rwcathunter]

the 6br and it's improved versions are very hard to beat out to 600 yards. I shoot a brx with good results. lots of dashers out there are doing well too. as far as actions, stocks and barrels go, take your pick of any of the customs. my rig has a Krieger hv #17, 8 twist, sitting in a McMillan f-class stock with a Lawton 7500 action. if it's not windy a brx or dasher should do well at 1000 yrds.

 

[TunTav0321]

If we are talking on the local level ( where 98.7% of all F-Class matches are shot) and not on the National or International level, then I don't see the Big 7's eaten alive all of the smaller cartridge's. As a matter of fact I believe and someone correct me if I am wrong, but our National F-Class team are Mandated to shoot the 7mm, it is not by choice. At least not the team members choice.

You did state not beyond 600 yds, then there are a lot to choose from. Most have been mentioned already the 6BR and its cousins are all excellent choices at that distance. The 6BR itself can be challenged in the wind, but so are they all no matter the cartridge. Improving your wind reading skills is the way to defeat that bugger bear. Shoot enough in the wind and you will learn. If the plan is to pick a wind bucking cartridge and not improve your wind reading skills then you are already so far behind the curve that plan simply will not work.

I don't know what cartridge you were shooting that recoil was a problem, you had rather stay away from ( that's a smart thing not a bad thing) but some of those cartridges in a 22 LB rifle are not all that bad really, the 6's are like shooting pellets in a F-Open weight rifle. If however I was building a rifle that I could shoot 600 yds very well and even do well at a 1,000 on almost anyday then for me the choice would be an easy one. The 6.5x47Lapua would be at the top of my list each and every time.

Roland

 

[Greg Langelius *]

For a single shot action where magazine feeding is not an issue, using a traditionally long action chambering in a short action may not be as counterintuitive as one might think. Unless your experience is different from mine, extracting an unfired round is actually a rarity, extracting a fired .30-'06 and .280 case from a short action works just fine, and unfired rounds can likewise be extracted by simply operating the bolt release and stroking the bolt a small distance past the 'normal' bolt stop position.

Personally, I think the .280 Rem has outstanding ballistics, no case forming is needed, and recoil, though firm, is not as prohibitive a shooting a high BC projectile from an LR-capable .30 cal. My philosophy toward 600yd vs 1000yd is that what works well at 1000 probably also works at least as well at 600yd, 1000yd opportunities will likely present themselves, and having a 1000yd capable firearm/load is seldom a disadvantage at that or any shorter distance.

Greg

 

[JBD56]

Action - Bat
caliber - 6BR or cousin of
barrel - Brux, Bartlein or Kreiger

The guys I shoot with use every configuration out there from factory Savages to full-blown custom rigs that cost upwards of 8,000 with scopes. Do you want to compete on a regional/state level or on a national level? My best friend shoots a blue printed 700, 28" Kreiger barrel, jewell trigger, McMillian stocked rifle that does 199-200 with mid teens X count most nights. Not a ton of money tied up in the rig. He shot a 6.5X284 last year until he shot my 6BR and couldn't believe how low the recoil was and how consistent it was from shot to shot. Another buddy just fire formed the brass for his wife"s 6BRX on Sunday and she shot a 198-13X last night. Go with one of the little 6's and have fun.

 

[wadebrown]

I am not sure there is a better caliber at 600 yard F-open than the 6BR or the Dasher and similar, their accuracy is just stellar. The 6BR and all its variants are so easy to find amazing loads that just shoot bugholes consistently that I think they are the best choice at 600 yards and if I was only going to shoot once a year at 1,000 yards you probably would not be competitive at 1,000 yards with any caliber as shooting at 600 and 1,000 are very different games just look at the time of flight data and you will see a big difference. Shoot the 1,000 yard shoots once a ear with your 600 yard rig and build a rig that is optimized for 600 say a Dasher and you will be competitive at 600 and have a lot of fun at 1,000.

 

[Frank Green]

If you we're going to shoot the gun at times out to a 1k yards I would run a .284win. The barrels finish length would be 32". Barrel life on a .284win. should be able to push 1500-2k rounds.

I didn't list any of the 7 mags. Barrel life on these is in the range of 600-800 rounds.

If it's strictly a 600 yard gun and shorter I would run a 6mm. Gonna be tough to beat out to 600 yards on a given day. If the conditions are really windy the 7mm is going to have the edge all the time then but with that being said I've beaten 7's with my 6mm even at a 1k yards. You still have to read the wind and catch the changes and pull the trigger.

Chamber choice for a 6mm and not in any particular order. 6BR, 6x47 Lapua, 6 Creedmoor, 6XC and the barrel length would be around 28".

I don't like to have to fire form brass and waste barrel life in doing it. So that's why I didn't list stuff like 6 Dasher etc....I also didn't list .243win. because they are barrel burners even though the 6 Creedmoor and 6XC are not far behind on case capacity but I feel the neck length and shoulder angles vs. the .243win. will help with barrel life. A .243win. for good accurate barrel life under 1/2 moa your only looking at 800-1000 rounds.

Stock choice? Manners F-Class, McMillian (a couple of different ones will work good), I've got a Tooley MBR on mine and JJ here has a Manners on his .284win. or a Robertson and there are plenty of other choices in wood by places like Master Class Stocks would be my choice for wood.

Actions? Any of the good ones. Really comes down to personal preference. Not in any particular order...... Defiance, BAT, Surgeon, Barnard. I could list more but that is my preference.

My F-Class open gun has a Barnard. For the price you cannot beat it and it comes with a excellent fully adjustable trigger and you can run it in single stage or two stage. JJ gun here has a Defiance. Our shop F-Class gun has a Stiller Diamond back and I installed a Anschutz trigger and it's chambered in 6x47 Lapua and that stock is in curly maple by Richards Custom Stocks.

Pick a good scope. For F-Class I prefer a scope with 1/8 moa clicks. Not 1/4 moa clicks but they will work fine. Remember your shooting at a 1/2moa target! For Power I prefer a scope that will go up to at least around 30x. A little more isn't going to hurt. A scope with a max. power of 22-24x would be at the very min. for me. I run a 10-60x March. JJ runs a 8-32x Nightforce.

Lots of good options out there. Do your homework and you'll put together a good gun.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[Frank Green]

I didn't list any 6.5's for caliber. Why? Even though I love 6.5's I wouldn't do a 6.5x284 because it's a barrel burner. A .260 Rem. or 6.5 Creedmoor would be my choice if I did but for a mid range gun I feel the 6's have an edge but not by much.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[nhm16]

My choice for F-Open mostly at 600 and sometimes at 1k would be the 6.5x47L. Very accurate, easy on the shoulder, straightforward to load, can still so OK at 1000. I normally shoot a .284 (now a variant thereof) at 1k but my best score at 1k was with my 6.5x47L that I normally shoot at 600 (I was too lazy to prep brass that weekend ).

 

[Quickoz]

For a 600yd FO rig, I'd build the following:

Trued R700 or clone
6BR, 6x47L, 243AI, etc
McMillan F-Class
10-50x or similar scope.

My FO rig is a 6x47L but maybe rechambered to 6x47L improved. I don't mind fire-forming myself as they can be cry accurate. I've shot a 1.2" group at 300m for 10 shots with a 243AI FO rifle so that was good practice.

A well driven 6mm will be more accurate then anything else I believe. At the end of the day, if you can't read the wind or conditions no high BC bullet will save you.

 

[Firefour]

Here's what I think I'm going with,, for now.
Thanks for all the input.

Quickoz--agree on the wind call, our range is usually filled with more than enough wind when we shoot.

Already have a trued R700, so rebarrel it for a 6x47, or 6.5x47 (have around 1.5K 6.5's from my 260)
(sell kreiger 260 bbl)

McMillan F-class, or MBR stock
(sell Mc A5 adj stock)

Stick my nightforce on

Find a decent front rest, any recommedations??

 

[TunTav0321]

"Viper" F-Class rest.

The Viper Rest

 

[Muskox]

My F-Open gun was a 6.5x47. It was ok. I personally think if you are going to shoot open you need more gun. But our range is 0-1000 yards. Guys have good luck with the 280 Ackley, 284, 7mm WSM, 7mm RSAUM and so on in that genre. We have a lot of guys that shoot 6mm Ack Rem, 6.5x55 Ack, 243, 6xc, and so on.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

When I suggested the .280 Rem, I did so after having shot a couple of years worth of F Open 1000yd at Williamsport/Bodines Pa with a 28" .260 Rem. The .260 shoots fine, but it's not the winner the 6.5-284 is. I'd not switch to the 6.5-284 because it's too abusive of barrels. That's why I'm looking so favorably at the .280 Rem. I have a pair of sporting .280's (Ruger MKI's with sporter and varmint weight barrels), and have done a fair amount of preliminary load development with Nosler Ballistic Tips in 120, 140, and 150gr weights. I think the prospect of shooting a 150gr bullet supersonic to 1000yd is a possibility, the 140gr to 600 as well, and the recoil and bore wear overheads are probably reasonably acceptable as long as one uses a bore length that corresponds to the case capacity. By that I mean a bore length of at least 26" and preferably 28" for the really longer distances. From what little I can glean about the .280 at longer ranges, it appears to be a highly underrated LR chambering.

Greg

 

[XTR]

To start into F-Open I'd start with a Savage F-Class in 6.5-284. You can pick them up used with about half the barrel life left for under $1000, and the seller will usually give you his load data so you are up and running in after about one day of confirmation testing. I'd spend the rest of the money you'd spend on a rifle on a good rest, rear bag and reloading supplies, that is unless money is no object. To build a rig from scratch is going to run you a minimum of about $2000 by the time you are finished assuming you start with a Remington action.

If you decide you really like it and you want to build a custom rig, then you can do that and sell or re-configure the Savage.

 

[Quickoz]

XTR,

Only issue I see with that idea is that he will only have around 500-700rds left in the barrel. I'm new to FO and I've put 400rds on my 6x47L within 3 months if practicing and testing. I had load data come with my rifle but It wasn't 100% right so I had to refine it. I think building a new rig the way he wants it would be better. More money now but less in the long run. And you get max barrel life from it too.

 

[IanB]

I would go for a .284,it has a relatively good barrel life, pretty easy to get to shoot and it will hold the V bull at 600 yards, which is all you need, and although the 6BR will hold inside that, the BR will struggle on windy days.
On calm days (not that we have many) the .284 will run alongside the bigger 7's at 1000 yards but of course it becomes disadvantaged when the wind blows and that extra 200 fps+ really kicks in with the magnums.
If you want to sacrifice a bit on barrel life and have a across the course caliber the .284 Shehane is it.

Bat action
Precision Rifle and tool stock
Bartlien barrel

 

[XTR]

XTR,

Only issue I see with that idea is that he will only have around 500-700rds left in the barrel. I'm new to FO and I've put 400rds on my 6x47L within 3 months if practicing and testing. I had load data come with my rifle but It wasn't 100% right so I had to refine it. I think building a new rig the way he wants it would be better. More money now but less in the long run. And you get max barrel life from it too.

We are talking about someone starting out. Getting a perfectly dialed load can happen in matches. He's not competing for the national title. I'd bet that the load data he'd get would be good enough to win if he could read wind. This is July, by the time he finishes off the barrel this shooting season is over. Even with a 308 in F-TR I don't ask much more than a season from my barrels. I'll shoot well over 2000 rounds between practice and competition.

From a cost standpoint a used Savage will get you into the game for ~$900 and you can be shooting next week.

A build will cost you in excess of $2000 and you aren't shooting until nest April at the earliest. The Savage gives you a complete package that is competitive the day you get it. Buy the Savage, and either start buying your build or put a barrel on order (which reminds me I need to order one for next yr) because you are going to need it, in fact I'd probably buy two and get them both chambered at the same time. If this is a 600 yard gun I'd keep shooting the 6.5-284, or go with a straight 284Win, both are lasers at that range. If you want start with a new barrel McGowan sells prefit Savage barrels for $339 delivered next week.

I've got a 223 built on a Savage F class for 600 yard shooting, it is a good rifle. I don't like the accutrigger as well as my Jewels and I don't like the stock as well as my PR&T, but I have less in the used Savage and a new prefit barrel than the action alone in my 308. It shoots .3s or better at 200 yards with 80Amaxs running over 2800 FPS. I had to throat it out to run the long bullets the way they should be seated, that was another $99 for a hand throater from PT&G.

If I wanted to shoot before next yr and I didn't want to spend $2000+ on a build that's the route I'd take.

 

[morpheus]

Wade - Just curious. How many F-Open matches have you shot? I thought you were exclusively F-T/R, but you seem to know a lot about F-Open?

 

[latisimusd]

XTR
How many F-Open matches have you actually competed in?
What do you shoot in them?

 

[XTR]

I don't shoot F-Open, and have no intention of ever doing it; however, if I was getting a rifle together and I wanted to shoot this yr that's the route I'd go. The build costs and times are pretty straight forward whether the cambering is 308Win, a 6.5-284, or a 260 Rem. Custom actions run $1200 to $1500 with a three to six month wait in most cases. Most custom actions don't come with triggers so add $200 or more. The major barrel manufacturers charge ~$425 or so and are six to 12 months out (my last Krieger took six and I've got a Rock Creek that is at nine months and still not delivered) on barrels unless you find one you are looking for at one of the resellers like bugholes, third generation or Bruno's, but the $$ is the same or more. A custom stock is going to run you $750 or more, some a whole lot more and a wait. Then you have to get someone to put the whole thing together.

No, I've never fired a shot classed in F-Open, but I have built three F-TR rifles and a 7-08 hunting rifle in the last 3 yrs. (two Remington, a Defiance and a Savage actions) The OP is asking about getting into F-Open at 600 yards. I made a recommendation that would get him up and running now for the smallest $$ and the caliber is capable of running at 1000. Granting that there are exceptions to all rules, esp. with regard to components, with what that I have written would you disagree?

 

[Quickoz]

XTR,

If the OP was to get a factory rifle, I'd get a 6mmBR before I'd ever get a 6.5-284. Less recoil, better barrel life, good factory ammo and very very accurate. And would be a good cal to learn with. The problem with these wind cheating cals I think is that it can make people think that wind doesn't matter as much. If he wants to learn FO, then a 6mmBR is the best bet in a factory rifle. If going a custom I'd look at the 6x47L, 243AI, or one of the faster 6.5mm cartridges. Going to a barrel burner straight away that costs a lot of powder is not the best idea I think.

It's up to you as the OP mate. I would get a rig that you can modify and learn with from the get go and that you can switch barrels on so you save money. A trued Rem or Rem-clone would be the go in that regard I think. Look at the Peirce action. Only around the 1k mark in the USA and is built to BR tolerances without all the extra fancy stuff you probably don't need just yet. Trigger, Action, and scope rail would probably be around 1350-1400 bux which is good I think.

 

[morpheus]

XTR - No big deal, but based on your comments in this thread, I was a bit confused about your previous experience shooting F-Open, thats's all. I had always understood you to be exclusively an F-T/R shooter (as you confirmed) and was wondering where you gained all the real-world knowledge and experience with the various F-Open cartridges used in competition. I thought I missed something based on your standard "I'm F-T/R only" comments at the Oak Ridge matches, but I understand better now where you're coming from.

The OP asked about a rifle for mostly 600 yards. I have 6.5x47L and a 6mm Dasher F-Open rifles and think they are both good choices. Either could also do quite well for the occasional 1,000-yard match on days without crazy winds, but for a more appropriate 1,000-yard rifle, I like the .284 Win. I have one for both F-Open and Sling (both Barnards with 32" Brux barrels) and I agree with the previous posters who also recommended them and the reasons they stated.

 

[calling4life]

22-250 1/7 @ 30" shooting the 500+BC 90's @ 3100'ish

Brux Palma
KRG stock setup as a trg.

March 8-80

I've got a hard on just thinking about it.

 

[Firefour]

I think after reading all the posts, and suggestions I am going with a 6mmBR or a 6.5x47. Since I'm only shooting at 600 yds I think one of them will work very good. Looking for mild recoil is also
a large part of the equation. Shot with both calibers and seen them do quite well.
Manners MBR stock
Rem 700 trued action or custom--
Thanks

 

[captcoop]

My Gunsmith and his granddaughter (14 year old) , both shoot the 6.5X47. They both shoot 600 F open. Both shoot close to the same load , same VLD bullet. The granddaughter shoots very well . High master ( I think).

 

[captcoop]

I've shot my gunsmiths gun , it shoots very well. Both guns have Masterclass stocks, straight 1.25 barrels28"-30"

 

[Quickoz]

Firefour,

I would look at the 6x47Lapua, the 6.5x47L necked down. You will get better ballistics at 600yds and also have the awesome accuracy of 6mm bullets. I strongly recommend that route.

 

[JWV]

260AI-Nice gap filler between the 260 and 6.5-284 with excellent accuracy, low recoil, and good barrel life. I shoot mine at 600 F-open with 140 hybrids loaded at 2780fps. At longer range I up the charge to the next node around 2930fps and still get great accuracy. A friend of mine uses the 6Dasher and does very well at 600 yards. Since your mostly shooting 600 yards I would pass on a 7mm. While they do great at 600 it just seems like too much when a 6 or 6.5 will do as well for much cheaper with less recoil. Also, 7mm bullets seem to be the toughest to find right now.
Any custom action. Savage if on a budget or a DIY person.

 

[Emilio]

Have you looked into the 6.5 Super LR? I'm having one built right now.

 

[LRCampos]

I would definately suggest the 6mmBR. Me and a couple of shooters went to a 600 yards match in US in Florida with our 6BRs and got 1st, 3th and 4th place, beating some 7mm, 6 Dasher and BRX and setting a 600-38X on first day and 599-43X on the second day. Not much wind, but I truly believe on the 6BR at 600 yards, they are just too easy to find an accurate load, good barrel life, no recoil and even factory loads if you want.

 

[Firefour]

Decided to go with a 6.5x47L. It was a tough decision over the 6mmBR, and 6 dasher, but the 6.5 has worked well with many shooters from what I have researched, and, I have near 2K 6.5mm bullets.
Thanks for all the info and help.

 

[Quickoz]

Firefour,

I think you have made a good decision. It is a very accurate round and will serve you well. A friend of mine used one to win our state FO prize meeting with 130gr Berger Hunting VLDs. I was considering one myself but I think the case is a bit limiting for the heavy 140gr class bullets and I found I could get better ballistics from the 6mm version of the cartridge so I went that way. Downside is less barrel life.

Keep us posted with your journey into FO. It's great fun

 

[Donald]

The 6.5x47 with the 130 VLD is a great set up and should do you well keep us posted how you get on.

 

[dean253]

Firefour,

I think the parts you have decioded on will treat you just fine. I shoot the 6.5x47 Lapua for a tactical rifle & I love it. I just switched to the 140 Berger Hybrids and they areawesome. They would be worth a try when you get your current bullets all shot up. You definetlymade the better choice on the stocks. I think the MBR is more rigid than the F-class stock. As far as front rest I prefer the Farley Co-Axial. They are made right is here Oklahoma. Oh Yeah, In my opinion there is only 1 barrel maker, Bartlein! Lol... Bartlein is all I have shot since 2007. I know Kreigers & Brux have been making good barrels too.

My FO rifle equipment list.
Stolle Panda F-Class
Bartlein Barrel
Precision Rifle & Tool Lowboy
Jewell Trigger
Nightforce Competition Scope
Farley Mfg Co-Axial Rest
Edgewood Rear Bag

Good Luck!

Dean-o

Here's what I think I'm going with,, for now.
Thanks for all the input.

Quickoz--agree on the wind call, our range is usually filled with more than enough wind when we shoot.

Already have a trued R700, so rebarrel it for a 6x47, or 6.5x47 (have around 1.5K 6.5's from my 260)
(sell kreiger 260 bbl)

McMillan F-class, or MBR stock
(sell Mc A5 adj stock)

Stick my nightforce on

Find a decent front rest, any recommedations??