Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

[xanderzuk]

So I'm facing a serious delima. Like most people, most of my shooting is recreational. However, I do spend a decent amount of time hog hunting. Up to this point I've been borrowing a friends Remington R25 in .308 topped with an Eotech. It's a hoot to shoot, and very accurate, but it's a big hunk of metal to haul around for hours on end walking through brush and creeks.

So, I have an AR lower that's waiting for an upper and here's where the question comes in. Should I get a .223 upper that I could have for fun, 3 gun matches, and some hunting AND buy a 6.8 upper for the hog and larger game hunting?

OR

Should I attempt a build at a lightweight .308 AR? I guess I could shoot surplus out of it in matches, and it'll obviously do the job hog hunting.

The downsides which need to be addressed:

6.8 is virtually impossible to find except online. Even bass pro with all the obscure rounds they carry didn't have it on the shelf at their store. Kind of annoying that rounds would almost always have to be ordered online/ hand loaded.

.308 AR's are heavy. Some people might say "suck it up." Most of these people haven't carried a heavy ass rifle around for hours at a time and then tried to aim it accurately at a big scary hog. It might not be practical for run and gun matches.

What say you?

 

[EricM40]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

I do 90% of my hog hunting with a 223. You shoot them in the ear and they go straight down. It's not really about the caliber, but more about shot placement. You could go with a 1:7 twist barrel and shoot the heavy 70+ grain bullets. Other than the 223 I use a Marlin 336 in 35 remington. Good Luck.

 

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

I used a 223 AR for several yrs on hogs with Nosler 60gr Partition bullet which is also good for deer--black Hills
loads it and I'm sure others do also--my vote is 223 if you
can have only 1

 

[xanderzuk]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

The only issue I have is that because of the style of hog hunting we do, mostly at night, combination of golf cart and foot, ear hole shots are a little tough. I'm not sure if you're shooting from a stand or what, but that's a tough shot. I'm trying to compensate a little with caliber here

I was thinking mostly neck shots with the 6.8 or .308

Oh and just to specify if I got the .223 I would also buy the 6.8 to have to switch out for hunting. If I got the .308 it would be by itself.

 

[Downzero]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

If you don't handload, .223 is basically your only option. Either way, you'll never reach the full potential, of ANY rifle, without handloading.

 

[427Cobra]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

What everybody else doesn't understand is in north Texas a 7mm mag is required to kill 100lb deer around here, learning to be a better marksmen is out of the question, so get a 308, because bigger has to be better, and don't forget a badass scope from Cabelas or Bass Pro Shops.

 

[xanderzuk]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What everybody else doesn't understand is in north Texas a 7mm mag is required to kill 100lb deer around here, learning to be a better marksmen is out of the question, so get a 308, because bigger has to be better, and don't forget a badass scope from Cabelas or Bass Pro Shops. </div></div>

I'm not really sure where your comment is directed. Considering the parameters I set forth, ie stumbling across a hog that's bedded down in thick brush as I'm walking through it at night; yeah I'll take the bigger round since only guys like you are able to make those "ear hole," no adrenaline, off hand, iron sights, .22 LR, "whatever happened to skill" type shots.

But hey, maybe I've got ya all wrong. In which case it's my bad.

 

[JSTARSZ]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

I have bought all of my 6.8mm online and Silver State Armory and Midway USA. Get on Silver State's email list and they will tell you when they are having sales. Once I got a large enough brass collection I bought Redding 6.8mm dies and started reloading.

The 6.8mm is a very versatile round and is great on Hogs. Do some research on the hide on HTR707 and you will find lots of info on shooting hogs in Texas.

I personally use Barnes 95GR TTSX with SSA brass, 28.5 GR RL 10X at 2.260 and use PRI magazines and have killed many of deer with that round. I know guys in Texas that use that round on hogs too.

I too have 308's (DPMS 308 AP4) and I find it heavy to carry in the woods. I could do it but why when I can carry a lighter rifle with a good bullet combination. I hunt in the hills so walking with a heavy rifle gets to you after awhile. I even went as far as to buy a 6.8mm 10.5 inch Noveske upper for Rock River lower to make it even that much lighter and smaller to hunt with. I am awaiting the stamp for that one.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

for hogs, go 6.8

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

Marlin and Ruger have produced pistol caliber semiauto carbines in the past. I'd like to suggest some research into ones chambered for .44Mag and .45ACP. You might also want to consider a semiauto 20ga with buckshot; or slugs, which exhibit similar terminal ballistics to the .44mag.

I use a Win 94AE .44Mag and several 20ga slug guns for deer hunting, and I think they'd have more than enough pep to drop a hog at practical distances without either being too heavy or producing excessive recoil. With dot scopes, they are lighter in weight, point very quickly, and are at least carbine rifle-accurate. Their smaller lengths make them especially appropriate in thicker brush. To my thinking, the attributes that make a firearm more useful for CQB make it equally appropriate for brush work involving pig-sized quarry with angry pig attitudes.

It think these could be practical alternatives, and the pricing should be more reasonable, too.

Greg

 

[EricM40]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XanderZuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What everybody else doesn't understand is in north Texas a 7mm mag is required to kill 100lb deer around here, learning to be a better marksmen is out of the question, so get a 308, because bigger has to be better, and don't forget a badass scope from Cabelas or Bass Pro Shops. </div></div>

I'm not really sure where your comment is directed. Considering the parameters I set forth, ie stumbling across a hog that's bedded down in thick brush as I'm walking through it at night; yeah I'll take the bigger round since only guys like you are able to make those "ear hole," no adrenaline, off hand, iron sights, .22 LR, "whatever happened to skill" type shots.

But hey, maybe I've got ya all wrong. In which case it's my bad.</div></div>

Personally, I do most of my pig hunting from a spot and stalk, but I will occasionally be in the stand. The typical pig has bad eyesight, but excellent hearing and sense of smell, so unless he's hauling ass, take your time to make a better shot and drop him right there. Saying things like "off-hand" and "adrenaline" is not an excuse for not well placing a shot. You should be practicing off-hand. If you go with a fast twist you can shoot the 77 gr ammo, which is plenty for pigs.

 

[lwrkeysfisher]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

Haha... Get a 5.56/.223 and then make a decision on anything beyond later.

I have bought and sold at least a dozen .308's and 6.8 AR's over the last year, and I come back to this debate every time.

I love the .308, it puts a wallop on hogs. But it is damn heavy to carry around, it is too loud for no ear pro with short barrels, and follow-up shots are nowhere near as fast as the 6.8.

I also love the 6.8, as it also puts down hogs and deer better than the .223 but not as reliably as the .308, especially given varying shot placement on a moving hog at night.

So, I realized one thing....I like to keep a 5.56 on hand to practice and shoot (relatively) inexpensive ammo and can still hunt with it (70gr TSX from SSA). But am still locked in the debate between 6.8 and .308 for hunting. My guess is that I'm going to call MSTN in the next couple weeks and have them build me a superlight 6.8 and call it a day. I'll buy a bolt hunting rifle in .300 WSM later and make the need for a lightweight .308 AR superfluous.

Good luck...

 

[xanderzuk]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
...and it's 'dilemma'.

Greg </div></div>

You're absolutely right, it's "dilemma." With an English minor I should know this, so I'm going to write this one off as a use of "license."

 

[xanderzuk]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: EricM40</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XanderZuk</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What everybody else doesn't understand is in north Texas a 7mm mag is required to kill 100lb deer around here, learning to be a better marksmen is out of the question, so get a 308, because bigger has to be better, and don't forget a badass scope from Cabelas or Bass Pro Shops. </div></div>

I'm not really sure where your comment is directed. Considering the parameters I set forth, ie stumbling across a hog that's bedded down in thick brush as I'm walking through it at night; yeah I'll take the bigger round since only guys like you are able to make those "ear hole," no adrenaline, off hand, iron sights, .22 LR, "whatever happened to skill" type shots.

But hey, maybe I've got ya all wrong. In which case it's my bad.</div></div>

Personally, I do most of my pig hunting from a spot and stalk, but I will occasionally be in the stand. The typical pig has bad eyesight, but excellent hearing and sense of smell, so unless he's hauling ass, take your time to make a better shot and drop him right there. Saying things like "off-hand" and "adrenaline" is not an excuse for not well placing a shot. You should be practicing off-hand. If you go with a fast twist you can shoot the 77 gr ammo, which is plenty for pigs.

</div></div>

I'm guessing you have either thermal or x-ray vision, as you're the only person I know that can make precision ear shot's on pigs in thick brush.

Relatively open areas are one thing, and are a feature found in the area we hunt. However, near zero visibility is a bit different wouldn't you say? Well, maybe not for you..

 

[km2006dmax]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

Go ahead and get the 6.8. I hunt my ass off with my 16in fulton .308. I love the dam thing, but by the time you throw: Can, d-760, 20rds its a heavy SOB. I hunt on foot, truck or off of a hunt ve electric golf cart. After 5-6 hours on foot I tell myself I'm getting a 6.8. Shoot barnes bullets and be done with it.

You guys that say ya'll just shoot them in the ear all the time. That's fine when the shot presents itself. However, when you have 40-50 pigs running threw river bottoms you can't be quite as precise. Especially at night time.

 

[Unknown]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

I realize you didn't ask about the 6.5 Grendel, but I would suggest you consider it.

If you will only be shooting out to 300 yards or so, then I think the 6.8 will have more terminal effect on hogs. For 3 gun matches, and all round use, I think the Grendel would be the best choice.

If ammo availability is a consideration, then by all means the 5.56 is the easiest one to get ammo for almost anywhere.

The 6.8 has more terminal effect out to 300 yards than the 5.56 or the Grendel. The Grendel has better accuracy, and carries much better than the 6.8 at longer distances. I have never shot a 6.8, so I can't speak to how the recoil feels and how it would work for a 3 gun match. The Grendel is a really good choice that shouldn't be overlooked.

Much like people suggest considering the 6.5 Creedmoor along with the 260 Remington, and 6.5x47, I'm suggesting you consider the Grendel along with the 6.8.

 

[xanderzuk]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I realize you didn't ask about the 6.5 Grendel, but I would suggest you consider it.</div></div>

Good advice, I will certainly look into it!

 

[xanderzuk]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: km2006dmax</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You guys that say ya'll just shoot them in the ear all the time. That's fine when the shot presents itself. However, when you have 40-50 pigs running threw river bottoms you can't be quite as precise. Especially at night time.</div></div>

Finally someone else understands what the hell I'm talking about. Here's to admitting our limitations.

 

[carbinero]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

I have 5.56, had a 6.8, sold the latter to get a bolt 308, since I recent events are such that I can't afford an LMT. Sounds like you are prepared to spend $2,500 so I would recommend the LMT. Save the ar-15 lower for later.

 

[eleaf]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I realize you didn't ask about the 6.5 Grendel, but I would suggest you consider it.

If you will only be shooting out to 300 yards or so, then I think the 6.8 will have more terminal effect on hogs. For 3 gun matches, and all round use, I think the Grendel would be the best choice.

If ammo availability is a consideration, then by all means the 5.56 is the easiest one to get ammo for almost anywhere.

The 6.8 has more terminal effect out to 300 yards than the 5.56 or the Grendel. The Grendel has better accuracy, and carries much better than the 6.8 at longer distances. I have never shot a 6.8, so I can't speak to how the recoil feels and how it would work for a 3 gun match. The Grendel is a really good choice that shouldn't be overlooked.

Much like people suggest considering the 6.5 Creedmoor along with the 260 Remington, and 6.5x47, I'm suggesting you consider the Grendel along with the 6.8. </div></div>

The Grendel RULES!!

It gives a smidge in energy to the 6.8 to 300 yards, but the margin is so small as to be negligible. Either will be great on game out to 300, after that you will want a Grendel all the way.

 

[problemchild]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

The 308's are heavy. You could always run a SAW sling or a 3" padded sling. You could also run a 14.5" fluted barrel. Get an ACS stock so its as light as it can be. Buy a KAC I think they are as light as can be.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

6.5 will be much harder and more expensive so forget that. If shooting hogs, 6.8 is the ideal caliber. Light, hard hitting, accurate etc etc....

downside is you buy ammo online or reload but that is it

 

[Unknown]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RUTGERS95</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.5 will be much harder and more expensive so forget that. If shooting hogs, 6.8 is the ideal caliber. Light, hard hitting, accurate etc etc....

downside is you buy ammo online or reload but that is it

</div></div>

Rutgers is correct about the cost of the Grendel ammo. Even brass runs 68 cents to a dollar a piece. But the Lapua brass lasts so long I quit counting how many times I can reload a case after around 6 loadings. Now, if the primer goes in too easily, I toss the case.

Although the cost, and sometimes ammo availability does make the Grendel a pain to work with, I think it is worth the effort. Over time, you accumulate plenty of brass and can keep a bit loaded up. I have 200 new case rounds, and 400 cases that have been loaded up before just waiting for a primer strike. I wish I had more, but in reality, if I have 600 rounds of 308 match loads all loaded up at once, I'm pretty happy with that.

I haven't used the 6.8, so I don't know if brass costs less, or is more available than the Grendel.

Even though I'm very partial to the Grendel, if hogs at 300 yards and less is your top priority, I would recommend the 6.8 just because it will have a tiny edge in terminal performance.

 

[bustin]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

6.8 brass is apx $42 from SSA, I have over 20 loadings on some.
Nosler and PRVI say they are loading 6.8 this year, Hornady is releasing 120gr SST this month and may do a 100gr GMX a little later. Remington is the worst of the ammo even though they were the ones that helped the 5th group SOF get the 6.8 started. S&B and Double tap loads it and Elite ammo is making Trident bullets now.
A little 85gr Barnes TSX at 3100 will pass through a hog from end to end, testing we shot a 250-275lb hog in the left front shoulder, it exited the right rear ham.

 

[BOLTRIPPER]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

the 6.5 grendel makes the pork bellies lay flat

 

[lwrkeysfisher]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

Xander, with what you keep talking about I think you are looking for a 6.8. The Barnes 85 & 110 TSX and 95 TTSX have made hundreds if not thousands of piggies dead in the last couple of years. I've shot several myself with the 6.8 and it works very well. I'm not sure the 6.5G is the right gun for this, not just the extra costs with regards to ammo. The 6.5G excels as a long range AR-15 cartridge, so if you want to take advantage of this it will cost more in weight with longer barrels and bigger optics. It sounds to me as though your just looking to blast hogs maybe using and ACOG, EOTECH, or a low power adjustable. I personally think the 5.56 with Barnes 70gr TSX will work; however, if you want some more assurance and would still keep all of the carbine benfits then I would go with a light weight 6.8SPC like this one: Noveske; or this one: AR15 Performance.

The last time I went hog hunting we used a .308 and 6.8 and I could not tell much difference in how dead the hogs were. Follow up shots were used with both rifles to ensure flopping didn't turn into running, all were dead within 2-3' of where they were shot. I could tell a couple things though, the AR308 is significantly heavier and follow-up shots with the .308 are much slower than the 6.8. But then again I still debate the subject...

Good luck,

 

[gshack]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

6.8 seems to have a little more momentum in the marketplace than 6.5 Grendel from what I read. I would ask what the range is for most of your shots. Sounds like you are shooting them at less than 300 yds, in which case the difference between 6.5G and 6.8 is negligible. I have also heard very good things about the Barnes lighter weight 6.8 bullets.

 

[abit91]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

+1 on a 5.56/223 AR

 

[DieTrying310]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

Rock the 5.56 with the 6.8 option. You'll be happier in the end with the availability/standardization of parts vs. the .308, as well as the weight savings you'll have.

 

[300WSM]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

6.8 upper and 223 upper

 

[Mike Craig]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

I would look at the 243 WSSM. Great ballistics

 

[FltMed13]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 300WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">6.8 upper and 223 upper</div></div>

+1

 

[shooter19802003]

Re: Facing Serious Delima AR: .233 + 6.8 OR .308

I say go with 223 for now. Get a 1-7 barrel and shoot the 75 or 77 grainers. Most anything bigger cant be loaded inside a mag. 223 is cheap and you will be able to practice with it alot more. Plus the gun is lighter. If you want a different caliber just for hogs...what about one of the 45 caliber uppers? I think 458 socom and 458 bushmaster? Not real expensive I don't think. Atleast with the 223 you can get some trigger time. Hell, if nothing else...shoot the damn thing twice. Problem solved.