Fact check my plan, .308 vs. 6.5 Creedmoor, gas gun?

[Rprecision]

I am looking to buy my first large frame AR. I intend to run the gun suppressed, for hunting and occasional target Shooting to 500 yards. I don't feel either would be ethical to hunt with beyond. I am hoping for a 1moa gun.

I have been thinking about the new Savage MSR 10 hunter which is offered in two flavors. A 16" .308 and a 18" 6.5 Creedmoor. Setting the gun aside, and just comparing those two offerings I did some work on JBM for ballistics, at 500 yards I came up with the following data:

16" .308 175grn SMK @ 2500 3.4 mil drop .7mil 10mph / 1540lbs

18" 6.5 143grn ELD-X @ 2550 3.1 mil drop .5mil 10 mph /1440 lbs
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​​​​I am allready tooled up, load, have components for .308. I have been looking at the 6.5 to increase ballistic performance. I found a number of posts to base my velocity for the 18" 6.5 and my own numbers for the 16". Even if I give the 6.5 a 100fps lead, it still doesn't add up to much gain. From what I read and it seems to make sense, you cant push the 6.5 in a Semi quite as hard. When I look at the numbers I don't see better then .3 mil difference ? For my intended use, I just don't see the advantages of jumping to the 6.5? Am I overlooking something here.

School me!

Thanks
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[Rprecision]

If I can gain a wind advantage,reduce recoil and play with a more friendly throat/twist...I am in. The 140 ELD would rate a thunk,as it'd increase velocity a smidge and be a gain in BC too.

Those figures are with a 6.5 Hornday 143 ELD-X

Too be fair I could drop both weights respectively to a 130 class and 155 class. Both would shoot flatter, but I'm not sure a 130grainer is a optimal plan on elk. At 300 yards there is realistically no ballistic advantage as I see it.

 

[Rprecision]

Beings you have ZERO fucking clue...it'd be a 147 ELD show,start to finish.

And here I thought we left all the assholes on the scout site................................

 

[Rprecision]

Sorry this turned into a show, I appreciate the moderators for cleaning out a bad apple

 

[IanHusaberg]

And here I thought we left all the assholes on the scout site................................

Old Reliable, Larry, is an asshole extroadoniar, he does have a point, his facts do have some validity concerning wind drift. What no pictures Larry?? Is this the thread that got him banned, I don't think anyone will ever know which thread got him banned????? Why wouldn't you use the 147 ELD-X bullet. the ELD-Match has a g7 of .351. Is there a 147 ELD-X yet? If not, why not use the ELD-Match 147. Its basically a amax which are like grenades when they connect. I would think the energy on target would be worth the loss of velocity? The 6.5 only shines at extended distances, where it keeps going, going, gone. What the hell do I know, I'm just a Doctor!!! (I mean bad actor?) This thread has turned into you talking to you, talking to you!?!! I think you answered your own question with the fact you stated. Maybe you wanted to argue with yourself???? Use the 308. Sounds to me like you did get schooled? You did ask for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you'd like to pick apart my post/numbers stated go ahead. It's just the inter-webs. You too, can be the king of your own thread.

Opinions are like asshole, everyone has one and they all stink.

IanHusaberg

 

[Upstate43]

Well, I'm not surprised to the OR's comments deleted here as well...he seems to have been making the rounds.

From what I read and it seems to make sense, you cant push the 6.5 in a Semi quite as hard. When I look at the numbers I don't see better then .3 mil difference ? For my intended use, I just don't see the advantages of jumping to the 6.5? Am I overlooking something here.

I think you're answering your own question here.
- You're already tooled up for .308.
- .308 has a solid reputation in a semi-auto platform.
- You're looking to hunt and target shoot, 500 yards and within.

I don't really know what a 6.5 semi-auto is going to do for you that a .308 won't do, given your intended application for this setup. In this case, I think the easiest and most obvious answer is the most logical one.

 

[Rprecision]

Thanks for the information and feedback.

I have zero experience with a 6.5 caliber, hell never even shot one. Wind, drop, energy all are a way to get a feel for a cartridge. With no real experience I didn't know if there was anything I was overlooking.

 

[Upstate43]

Thanks for the information and feedback.

I have zero experience with a 6.5 caliber, hell never even shot one. Wind, drop, energy all are a way to get a feel for a cartridge. With no real experience I didn't know if there was anything I was overlooking.

I'd recommend finding a friend or a range that would let you borrow or rent a 6.5 bolt gun and trying it out for yourself. It has its advantages for certain applications.

But for what you're trying to do, and given that you're looking at 500 yards and in, I just don't know think you'll enjoy any real advantage with the 6.5 vs the .308. You might be cheating the wind a little bit better, but in terms of ballistic drop, the two cartridges are very similar out to 400-500. I see this as a "is the juice worth the squeeze" scenario here.

 

[Bronco]

I am looking to buy my first large frame AR. I intend to run the gun suppressed, for hunting and occasional target Shooting to 500 yards. I don't feel either would be ethical to hunt with beyond. I am hoping for a 1moa gun.

!

Thanks
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The rub comes with running suppressed, I've seen mixed results using semi's suppressed, inconsistent POI, banged up brass, poor accuracy, dirty mags, etc. Have seen some of these problems resolved with adjustable gas blocks, bolt carrier weights, different loads, guess what I'm saying is it's a crap shoot.

 

[Rprecision]

The rub comes with running suppressed, I've seen mixed results using semi's suppressed, inconsistent POI, banged up brass, poor accuracy, dirty mags, etc. Have seen some of these problems resolved with adjustable gas blocks, bolt carrier weights, different loads, guess what I'm saying is it's a crap shoot.

Yeah that is my concern and i dont know how much worse it is with a 6.5. One of the things that appealed to me about the MSR 10 was the factory adjustable gas block.

 

[sakobob]

Consider the oal of those eld bullets , your dealing with AR length mags.

 

[zeroz]

With the 6.5 you'll get a little advantage in the wind and you'll get a real advantage of less recoil. You'll also get a bullet that doesn't hit as hard, a gun that when suppressed will have a good chance (even with the adj. block) of over gassing and early unlocking issues that will beat on the brass.

For 500 and in, I'd stick with the .308 assuming the recoil reduction isn't topping your list of must haves.

 

[mpk1996]

What about the 178 eld-x in the 308? Or like you said the 155g stuff. For 500, in an AR, not much difference. I would also look at an 18" 308.

But in the end it really is what you want and value.

Tons of stuff out there in factory ammo and cheaper reloading components (brass). And you have that stuff

now that being said. The 6.5 eld-x will kill just fine.

 

[kingzero]

For 500 and in I would say stick with the 308. I have been loading for my first 308 gas gun and got good results with the 178 ELDX's and 4064. However, it seems to like 150 grain bullets and since mine will be for mid range steel and coyotes I will probably make the switch permanent.

Suppressing a gas gun just takes a little time to tune. An adjustable gas block and a heavier buffer helped mine tremendously.

 

[Rprecision]

I really appreciate all of the information, .308 makes sense, now I just need settle in a gun, or build one.

If I wanted lightweight where should I look?

 

[Saf3sh00t3r]

I really appreciate all of the information, .308 makes sense, now I just need settle in a gun, or build one.

If I wanted lightweight where should I look?

Get a Seekins SP10 in .308 16" or better 18". The gun is great to shoot. Accurate with factory ammo.

Inside of 500, you don't need a 6.5cm and you can use a heavy bullet for higher energy inside of 500 with a .308.

...opinions and assholes go together.