Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

[jkazak]

Been looking to purchase some "barrier blind" ammo to double for hunting and glass penetration (if needed). The Federal Premium Vital Shok with the 180gr Nosler PT looks like it fits the bill - but , on several websites that sells it I've seen that it states "not-recommended for semi-auto rifles" something about it being high-energy ammunition. I've seen muzzle energy for this stuff ranging from 2660 - 3000 ft/lbs..

I recently purchased some Black Hills Gold using the exact same bullet and never saw anything about it having too much energy.....

Please educate me on this - I don't want to try something that's going to damage me or my rifle. I'm shooting and AR-10 carbine and DPMS SASS.

 

[Oakland Tactical]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

A call to your rifle manufacturer is warrented to make sure. I think the ammunition manufacturers are trying to CTA in case someone uses it in a 7.62x51 rifle such as a FAL, M1A, G3 or a Cemte which are made for the lower pressure NATO round. The modern rifles you have should be marked .308 like my MWS if it is marked 7.62x51 I would <span style="font-weight: bold">not</span> use it. I would think that both your rifles are .308 chambered.

 

[Zebra644]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

Try looking into Hornady TAP for the .308 they make a specific .308 round for glass / barrier.+1 on calling the manufacturer of your rifle if your owners manual or other papers that came with rifle dont give ammo restrictions.

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

Out of curiosity, since your profile isn't filled out, are you law enforcement? Why the need for glass penetration? Do deer keep getting into your greenhouse?

 

[rasheed]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Out of curiosity, since your profile isn't filled out, are you law enforcement? Why the need for glass penetration? Do deer keep getting into your greenhouse?

</div></div>

Nice!

 

[Dirty D]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Redmanss</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why the need for glass penetration? Do deer keep getting into your greenhouse?

</div></div>

No but those bastards like to drive on the sidewalk.

 

[jkazak]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

Not LE - just a die-hard Boy Scout that can't get seem to give up the motto no matter how much therapy my wife insists on me getting ......

 

[jkazak]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

That Hornady barrier in .308 is VERY hard to find. I've only ever seen 100 rounds for sale and it was too much $$$ (at least I thought so....). Thanks though for your thought.

 

[pilotguy299]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

I have no personal experience with the round, but at another web site they claim that the

"Federal Premium 165gr Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, this is a GREAT glass buster. The FBI conducted a very extensive series of tests with different bullets fired through a whole list of different types of glass. The Trophy Bonded Bear Claw came out on top. Its not a match grade load, but the Federal premium loads are very accurate, we have no problems holding sub MOA with our M24."

http://www.snipercentral.com/308.htm

 

[2tuf4u]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

It is possible that the pressure curve of this particular Federal cartridge peaks in the area of the gas port drilled in the top of the average ar-10 config rifle. In the absence of an adjustable gas port this would result in exxcess wear&tear on your rifle.

 

[KillShot]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

I can get pretty much any flavor of Hornady ammo you want here in Tulsa for the price of $25/box.

Whatever you do, STAY AWAY from the Hornady Superformance stuff. It is NOT gas gun friendly.

 

[BCP]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

"Not recommended for semis" usually means the powder is on the slow side/pressure too high for an M1A. Not really an issue in an AR.

To be honest if you haven't started reloading yet you should put the $$$ into that instead of say 2-300 rounds at 1-2$ each. Then you can pick and choose brass, bullets, powder and do it all for about half the price of store bought ammunition.

 

[LongRangeDDS]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

Superformance + not gas gun friendly? How so?

 

[WARDOG]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jkazak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...The Federal Premium Vital Shok with the 180gr Nosler PT looks like it fits the bill - but , on several websites that sells it I've seen that it states "not-recommended for semi-auto rifles" something about it being high-energy ammunition. I've seen muzzle energy for this stuff ranging from 2660 - 3000 ft/lbs.. </div></div>

A 180 grain @3000 fps is <span style="font-style: italic">A LOT</span> of energy!
High energy ammo like that can break your bolt catch on final round and fully compress your buffer spring.
The <span style="font-style: italic">best</span> 'glass breakage' bullet is the second one fired in the same shatterd area the first one went through. I was a Police SWAT Sniper. After the "Good Guys Electronics" shooting in Sacramento (1991?) we all learned to shoot through glass effectively.

 

[KillShot]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LongRangeDDS</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-weight: bold">Superformance + not gas gun friendly? How so?</span></div></div>

Unless you have a 24" barrel, I'd steer clear of the Superformance ammo. The photos below were taken after firing a few rounds of Hornady Superformance 178gr from a POF with a 20" barrel.

 

[LongRangeDDS]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

Interesting info, thanks!
I've shot a few from a 20" 700 with no problems.
Curious if a piston (20" LWRC REPR) would handle it differently than gas impg, with also the ability to bleed off more/less gas with the adjuster. Perhaps will stick to "regular" Federal for a while!

 

[nmmi9100]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

I'd second the handloading suggestion. There are a number of bullets that offer good barrier penetration and can be easily loaded in 308 for gas guns. Barnes TSX and Tipped TSX bullets come to mind as do Nosler Accubond. Any bullet that will hold up going through the shoulder of an elk and not falling apart will be a good barrier penetration round.

You can load up some nice rounds for 308 WIN for around $0.60/each. That'll pay for a reloading setup within a few hundred rounds. You can get going on a basic reloading setup for $300 or so if you are careful.

-David
Edgewood, NM

 

[KillShot]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LongRangeDDS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting info, thanks!
I've shot a few from a 20" 700 with no problems.
Curious if a piston (20" LWRC REPR) would handle it differently than gas impg, with also the ability to bleed off more/less gas with the adjuster. Perhaps will stick to "regular" Federal for a while!
</div></div>

The Superformance works just fine in bolt guns but in the AR platform, anything less than a 24" barrel tends to cause an issue.

The POF also has a gas adjuster, allowing for more or less gas flow and I tried both the suppressed and normal settings to no avail.

 

[Grump]

Re: Federal ammo too much for semi-auto ??

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BCP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Not recommended for semis" usually means the powder is on the slow side/pressure too high for an M1A. Not really an issue in an AR. </div></div>

I beg you to quantify that. WHAT are the gas port pressure specs for a .308 AR DI system?

"They" (I know you have not cited "them") also say that Varget is too slow a powder for an M1A, but my experience, brass, and QuickLOAD all agree that it's just fine.