Few AR questions..

CK_32

CK_32

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Minuteman
Jan 22, 2010
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#1
1:7...1:8 or 1:9 twist all around best for a 16" carbine?

Should I get a match trigger??

Should I get piston or Gas?
If piston then can you get an A2 front site look alike gas block??
Im not too big a fan of flip up front sites on piston systems. I like the A2 front sites on the gas systems..

I plan on building an M4 carbine. But I want to have it be a 5.56 16" carbine and every once and a while throw a 24" upper on it. I will probably end up getting another lower and just have 2 complete AR's knowing my self but just for now I want to have one lower and pop on both uppers when I feel the need but would you use a match trigger on a 16" carbine? I noticed all 14" to 20" rifles don't usually have match triggers put on.. Is there a reason for that??
 
#3
Re: Few AR questions..

CK_32,

I would look at how you plan on using the rifle first.

If this is a blaster, CQB, ready up drill rifle than a 1/9 twist is just fine.

IF you plan on going past the 300yd mark with groups better than 2 MOA at that distance. I would tell you to run a 16" 1-7 twist direct gas .750 after the gas port with a 12" handguard. aka a Dissipator upper Then at the end of the gas port install a PRI flip up barreled front sight system.

This would give you the sight radius of a 20" bbl on a 16" and would keep it clear for ant optics like a Eo-Tech

here is a basic pic of a Dissipator upper I am talking about

udispre.gif


Look at the barrel mounted sight to the left

p_714000003_1.jpg


Now with this setup your gas block is under the handguard

SDC11896.jpg


thats the smart money system for many smart reasons

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=509821&light=

John
 
#4
Re: Few AR questions..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CK_32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1:7...1:8 or 1:9 twist all around best for mid length carbine?? <span style="color: #FF0000">What weight bullets do you plan on shooting and at what ranges do you plan on shooting them? This will determine the optimum twist for your new rifle/carbine.</span>

Should I get a match trigger?? <span style="color: #FF0000">I'm not sure where you got the idea that "all 14" to 20" rifles don't usually have match triggers put on" but I'd say that is inaccurate at best. Most duty rifles or others that may see "hard" use don't get "match" triggers installed because of concerns with several issues, including but not limited to reliability and "legal" issues. There are plenty of 100% reliable, "match grade" triggers on the market that offer a decreased trigger pull along with a crisp, clean trigger pull. The choice is yours. </span>

Should I get piston or Gas? <span style="color: #FF0000">I sing the praises of the piston operated rifles/carbines if you plan on running suppressed just because they run so much cleaner/smoother than comparable DI guns. However, there is nothing wrong with DI whatsoever!</span>

If piston then can you get an A2 front site look alike gas block?? <span style="color: #FF0000">Not that I'm aware of. You can get a BUIS (fixed...non-folding) that will mimic the A2 front sight that you install on a rail piston gas block, but the standard A2 FSB is a no-go with all the piston systems I'm familiar with.</span>
</div></div>
 
#5
Re: Few AR questions..

Wow cant believe I forgot to put that in there.. I plan on using the carbine not mid length sorry to just plink and shoot paper and drill with friends in the desert with in 100 yards.. Idk what kind of bullets Im just looking for the most variety and best barrel for that range.. Im just looking for the best twist rate to shoot the most variety of bullets weights. I heard the 1:7 and the 1:8 were best. but I was told 1:8 are match or custom barrels only.

then take the 20" upper and shoot out and mess around at as far as I can take it. I have a 700 in 308 for range for its not for serious long range shooting I just want a "spotter" type semi auto long range rifle. And add another toy to my collection.
smile.gif
 
#6
Re: Few AR questions..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CK_32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow cant believe I forgot to put that in there.. I plan on using the carbine not mid length sorry to just plink and shoot paper and drill with friends in the desert with in 100 yards.. Idk what kind of bullets Im just looking for the most variety and best barrel for that range.. Im just looking for the best twist rate to shoot the most variety of bullets weights. I heard the 1:7 and the 1:8 were best. but I was told 1:8 are match or custom barrels only.

then take the 20" upper and shoot out and mess around at as far as I can take it. I have a 700 in 308 for range for its not for serious long range shooting I just want a "spotter" type semi auto long range rifle. And add another toy to my collection.
smile.gif

</div></div>

Are you going to build it yourself or buy factory built uppers ?

The heavier 77gr SMK is recommended for a 1:7 or 1:8 twist only per Sierra,I think a 69gr and lighter is GTG in 1:9,all I have are the 7 and 8 twist bbl's myself.I think a 1:8 will handle anything that can be loaded mag length.

As far as the trigger goes,most stock AR triggers Suck unless it is a quality maker or an upgrade,if nothing else,send it off to Bill Springfield for a tune up.Great trigger job for not much money.
 
#7
Re: Few AR questions..

http://gaspiston.com/

I have no experience with this piston system so I cant really speak for them, but they claim to work with any standard gas block. So you could use whatever front gas block/flip up sight you want...theoretically.

Under their "About" tab they have a list of handguards known to work with the system.

Just something to consider if you want to go piston.
 
#8
Re: Few AR questions..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SANDRAT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Are you going to build it yourself or buy factory built uppers ?

The heavier 77gr SMK is recommended for a 1:7 or 1:8 twist only per Sierra,I think a 69gr and lighter is GTG in 1:9,all I have are the 7 and 8 twist bbl's myself.I think a 1:8 will handle anything that can be loaded mag length.

As far as the trigger goes,most stock AR triggers Suck unless it is a quality maker or an upgrade,if nothing else,send it off to Bill Springfield for a tune up.Great trigger job for not much money. </div></div>

Ok I got you I always figured match triggers were mainly for long range shootng not CQB. But I'm not too sure if I'm going to fully build my upper for the 20" because if I find a complete with everything I'm liking for I'll just save my time and buy it ready to go.

And I'm not too familiar with the performance side of 223 bullets yet but I just wanted to know which most prefer or which can be used with more types of better loads from one barrel. A friend told me 7 another told me 8 for a 16" reason I asked.

For the 16" upper I plan on getting a stag or spikes complete upper. Maybe throw a few upgrades on it but not going to put much into the 16".
 
#9
Re: Few AR questions..

I've got a couple 16" LMT carbine uppers in stock if interested. The barrels are 1:7 and chrome lined. They shoot 55gr-77gr bullets without issue. Really, the only time you could possibly run into an issue with a 1:7 twist rate is if you're shooting thin-jackaged, light varmint grenades. I put 1600 rounds of a 55gr M193 through one of the demo guns built with one of these uppers without issue.

As for the trigger, there are lots of options however I highly suggest something that isn't adjustable like the Geissele SSA or SSA-E. I say this because these triggers don't have any set screws or whatnot that can potentially get bumped out of alignment or otherwise messed up. The SSA breaks at about 4.5lbs while the SSA-E breaks at about 3.5lbs and is a little crisper than the SSA.
 
#10
Re: Few AR questions..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CK_32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1:7...1:8 or 1:9 twist all around best for a 16" carbine?

Should I get a match trigger??

Should I get piston or Gas?
If piston then can you get an A2 front site look alike gas block??
Im not too big a fan of flip up front sites on piston systems. I like the A2 front sites on the gas systems..

I plan on building an M4 carbine. But I want to have it be a 5.56 16" carbine and every once and a while throw a 24" upper on it. I will probably end up getting another lower and just have 2 complete AR's knowing my self but just for now I want to have one lower and pop on both uppers when I feel the need but would you use a match trigger on a 16" carbine? I noticed all 14" to 20" rifles don't usually have match triggers put on.. Is there a reason for that?? </div></div>

1:7 or 1:8 because you will be able to use the widest range of bullet weights/lengths.

I would get a quality match trigger if you are trying to do sub MOA work. If you are just using it for defense/fun get a normal trigger because they are less prone to break.

I own a couple of LWRC piston guns and love them but they have more moving parts that will need to be replaced (after many thousands or founds) such as the main rod spring and cup. Overall they are much cleaner and cooler though. BTW DO NOT buy a cheap piston system. I personally do not trust them over the long haul.

I hope that helps.
 
#11
Re: Few AR questions..

As already stated, 1:8 twist will handle about anything that will fit mag length and is probably the best for all-around use.

Stock DPMS trigger is a good, crisp trigger for low cost. Try that before investing in some kind of "match" one. It can be made even nicer with a bit of valve lapping compound or probably more more readily at hand, a few passes with a ceramic whetstone or rod type knife sharper. You probably have a ceramic rod sharpener of some kind laying around, just pop one of the rods out of its holder and a few light passes will smooth the trigger contact parts out.
 
#12
Re: Few AR questions..

Alright thanks a lot guys. Really helped out a lot. Ill look into getting that DPMS trigger. I just wanted a semi clean crisp trigger to be able to take that shot at 500 yards and not have a 7 lb trigger pull. My 700 is set at 3 lbs and that feels pretty heavy to me past 500 yards..

and I think ill just stick to the gas ststem. I dont think for what im looking to do the piston is really what I need.
 
#13
Re: Few AR questions..

Most of the DPMS triggers I've installed and shot with pretty much sucked out of the package. I felt it mandatory to clean the thing up, but this can be said for most any true stock trigger as most benefit from a little tweaking. If I was going out to spend $30/40 for a new stock trigger I'd have to consider at least buying a JP Enterprise single stage which I feel is a pretty good value.
 
#14
Re: Few AR questions..

So JP has better break than a DPMS? Yea I just want the cleaniest trigger I can get so I wont have to worrie about major pull issues when I take it out long range but at the same time not break down doing regular pull for CQB drills.
 
#15
Re: Few AR questions..

Sounds like you want a Geissele SSA or SSA-E. Non-adjustable, two stage combat trigger. The SSA breaks at about 4.5lbs while the E breaks at about 3.5lbs and is slightly crisper.
 
#16
Re: Few AR questions..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CK_32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So JP has better break than a DPMS? Yea I just want the cleaniest trigger I can get so I wont have to worrie about major pull issues when I take it out long range but at the same time not break down doing regular pull for CQB drills. </div></div>

The JP is far and above the DPMS and should serve you well for a little bit more than a $100. The Geissele's are great triggers top of the food chain but you do pay for that too, which isn't in everyones budget.
 
#17
Re: Few AR questions..

JP's aren't cheap, and a Geissele SSA has proven track record in the hands of guys that break things all the time.

I'd get whatever you fecide you want, then run it with a SSA or a RRA NM 2 stage.

If you want a brand name, there's plenty out there.
If you want someone to build you an AR that will run and shoot, click the link in my sig line for Specialized Dynamics and talk to Scott.
 
#18
Re: Few AR questions..

Yea I just looked those up and they seem a little out of my price range for my AR.

If I was going to spend that $$ I would probably go with a jewel for my 700.

Thanks for your input guys. Ill probably be staying with stock triggers now. So anyone know of any other lower parts kits with a decent trigger?
 
#22
Re: Few AR questions..

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CK_32</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Whats the break on that kit, do you know? </div></div>

Most likely 8ish lbs or more, like the majority of LPK's. They are all pretty much the same except that many manufacturers that used to be good are now just reselling chinese crap.

I bothered to post the link to the kit through Dillon becasue it is the best mass produced LPK that POF could find for rifles that are spec'd by departments to not have POF's proprietary trigger.

If you want a trigger that has a predictable light-ish pull weight when shipped, you will need to step up to an aftermarket trigger, not an LPK.

 
#23
Re: Few AR questions..

my 1:9 16" hbar shoots 55gr-62gr just fine. haven't gone any heavier yet. 1:7 is going to be nice, noveske or bcm are what my dealer/gun guru recommended.

i also have the RRA NM 2stage trigger on my gun. it feels perfect for me, 100-300 yd paper punching off bench/bags is all i do. not quite as pricey as some of the others, but good for me on a novice-intermediate ar build.
 
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