Gunsmithing Filling heavy pits?... Refinish? (Trying to restore a family gun)

[PlinkIt]

First off the pistol is not worth the cost / labor that will go into it I am already aware... This is only an exercise in trying to do a good deed to restore a friend's father's service pistol from a long time ago.

Looking for ideas / advice on how to fill some heavy pitting on an old wheel gun and refinish it as a gift.

The pistol was stored in an old leather holster that did one hell of a number of rusting on the gun, as well as rusted away a small portion of the trigger guard which without Tig welding up and trying to refinish I am at a loss of how to repair... Perhaps a second pistol to cut the trigger guard off of and solder / Tig weld into place?

Have been pondering the idea of filling pits with solder (thinking old school car restoration), but then how could I finish? electroless nickel maybe over solder? I don't see anyway I could "blue" the mismatched mess....

Thanks for any ideas, this is going to be an exercise in patience, if even possible

 

[Kickin45]

How are your airbrushing skills?
There is a very durable chrome/polished paint available.
It looks very close to nickel/chrome/high polish

 

[clcustom1911]

First off the pistol is not worth the cost / labor that will go into it I am already aware... This is only an exercise in trying to do a good deed to restore a friend's father's service pistol from a long time ago.

Looking for ideas / advice on how to fill some heavy pitting on an old wheel gun and refinish it as a gift.

The pistol was stored in an old leather holster that did one hell of a number of rusting on the gun, as well as rusted away a small portion of the trigger guard which without Tig welding up and trying to refinish I am at a loss of how to repair... Perhaps a second pistol to cut the trigger guard off of and solder / Tig weld into place?

Have been pondering the idea of filling pits with solder (thinking old school car restoration), but then how could I finish? electroless nickel maybe over solder? I don't see anyway I could "blue" the mismatched mess....

Thanks for any ideas, this is going to be an exercise in patience, if even possible

After busting all the rust off, you can fill the pits with silver solder, smooth out the surface, then hit it with a silver solder blackening product...

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...g-browning/silver-solder-black-prod17662.aspx

 

[GH41]

Do yourself and the family a favor... Leave it alone!

 

[shoobe01]

Before trying to restore, ponder and read a lot more about it.

Entirely assuming that there's no resale market even, wear on guns is /generally/ authentic. Restorations are — not to put too fine a point on it — lies.

Most of the time, I am very on the side that heirloom things get stabilized (stop all rust, oil them) and if to be shot, with whatever consumable small parts (springs, pins...) must be replaced for proper and safe operation.


So: Why is it pitted? Why try to restore it?

 

[PlinkIt]

....no resale market ...

... get stabilized...
consumable small parts (springs, pins...) must be replaced for proper and safe operation.


So: Why is it pitted? Why try to restore it?

There is no intention to sell this, it's worth the salvage

I'm not sure it would ever be shot again

And pitted because the gun was left wet in a leather holster for several years

They only want to make it a display piece as a present for the daughter

 

[PlinkIt]

After busting all the rust off, you can fill the pits with silver solder, smooth out the surface, then hit it with a silver solder blackening product...

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...g-browning/silver-solder-black-prod17662.aspx

Thanks I'll look more into this, I'm curious how you get the finishes to match between the solder and rest of the gun?...

 

[PlinkIt]

How are your airbrushing skills? ...

I have an airbrush still I gave a few tries several years ago, and this may very well be my only option because I can't think of any others

 

[shoobe01]

...They only want to make it a display piece as a present for the daughter

If like shadowbox, and never to be fired, I'd consider non-metal finish concepts. Use model putty to fill the pits, brush/sand it smooth. Maybe also plug the barrel to make that clear to anyone who finds it 50 years from now. Doesn't have to be much of a plug (a wooden dowel) to imply it's not shooting-ready.

Then, I'd paint it to look old. Airbrush is best but only if you have the skills. Easy way with rattlecan is to paint an overall metal color finish (aluminum paint is the nicest shiny color, readily available as an industrial finish also), let it dry and ideally let it cure (1-3 weeks) then paint over something that will look like a proper old finish.

I'd skulk the crafty paint areas, you may be able to find a dark but not gray color that will look like old blueing, for example the plum they get. Paint it especially carefully, thin layers, slowly painting. The light/shiny undercoat will make it look like a metallic finish.

Let it dry for 1-3 days. Steel wool or scotch brite the whole thing VERY gently. You will get a general wear on it, now it won't look new. Stare at the corners and edges: you will see that you've busted through the entire top layer a few places. Go ahead and emphasize this with additional directed effort with the scotchbrite/steel wool.

Keep Before photos on hand for reference. Try to replicate the actual (before rust) wear, so it looks carried, drawn, like holster wear.

Do this all disassemble to major components at least. Will help a lot with the look-real category. Let cure at the end (2-3 weeks of no one touching it) then assemble, mount, and gift it. Should be good.


If the mag isn't pitted, I'd leave it alone, mount it outside the gun (assuming pistol means not revolver). Make some dummy cartridges (get a reloader friend to make some) and load the mag as much as needed. If no witness holes, may only need 2. Drill a hole in the side of each to make that clear and turn them to be invisible when mounted.

Age the cartridges. Most patina-imposing stuff is pretty aggressive, makes things green, so consider simply brass blackener. Soak a paper towel, rub the cartridges down, wipe it off. Will knock back the brightness instantly. More gets darker, so you can keep going as needed, steel wool it back to shiny if you go too far. MAY work on the copper plated bullets as well, so try it.

 

[PlinkIt]

@shoobe01

I apologise for not pointing it out, buts it's a revolver. Old school Colt police positive

Basically was thinking what you are saying about the modeling Clay, and paint is about the only option I really have

But was planning on actually doing the solder to build the pits back up to a smooth finish so it could still be functional is my hope. Basically tin the entire thing, cut a repair for the trigger guard, then file / sand back to smooth finish.

paint it in some form of a blue that would resemble the old finish.


i really just wanted to put his out there as a brain storm... in case I'm missing a much better obvious option I'm just ignorant of... Or in case my idea is bat shit crazy and someone can go ahead and tell me it won't work and redirect me while I still have a chance of helping them make the thing a keepsake

 

[hermosabeach]

I am not sure what the family wants accomplished....

S&W uses a heavy finish on most new handguns. Products like Norells Molly Resin fill tool marks nicely and are chemical resistant.
If you strip a modern S&W Revolver, the metal underneath is not too pretty.


If they want the gun to look factory new, then the metal needs to be fixed and the correct blueing, if it exists, applied.

If they are OK with an opaque top coat- then you can fill the voids with almost anything- from JB Weld, to MIG/TIG.

I think I would start backwards. What is the end result? What does the family want? You could demill the gun amd refinish it so it could be passed down without firearm concerns.

 

[cupid stunt]

How about a picture so we can see exactly what you are talking about.

 

[PlinkIt]

Ok, here are some idea of what it looks like after removing the rust coat. The pits left here are too deep to file / sand out without removing a substantial portion of the frame

This picture doesn't show it well but it's the same pitting as above covering the entire pistol, with just random heavy pits

 

[cupid stunt]

Ok, here are some idea of what it looks like after removing the rust coat. The pits left here are too deep to file / sand out without removing a substantial portion of the frame

View attachment 6999657
This picture doesn't show it well but it's the same pitting as above covering the entire pistol, with just random heavy pits
View attachment 6999658

That pitting does not look deep, I would not hesitate to refinish that gun.

Here's an example of some I did that were about the same as yours.

A before and after pic....

 

[shoobe01]

Agree. Unless i am missing something from a photo, I call those rust spots vs pits. Pits can get BAD.

 

[PlinkIt]

I'm not able to show it well in the picture but let me explain the top pic

That is after sanding off all the rust I could get. The spots you are seeing are holes / pits / divets / pockets .... Whatever I should call them

 

[cupid stunt]

If you want to know how to refinish your gun buy this book.

 

[Hellbender]

First degrease everything, then you have to get rid of ALL the rust out of the pits, a diluted muratic acid dip will take care of that.
Then get some auto body spot putty, a small rubber squeegee and 240 and 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper from the automotive supply.
Use the squeegee and spot putty to fill the pits, let cure per directions.
Sand it all smooth.
Use air dry Cerakote and an airbrush to refinish.... or simpler, but not as good, a spray bomb gun finish from Brownells (many choices).

 

[cupid stunt]

I'm not able to show it well in the picture but let me explain the top pic

That is after sanding off all the rust I could get. The spots you are seeing are holes / pits / divets / pockets .... Whatever I should call them

That's often the case. You need to use a sharp file first, the sanding comes after when all the pitting is taken care of. It will probably take two of three days to get the metal ready for the bluing process. The bluing will probably take another day unless you have access to hot bluing tanks.
If it's worth doing at all it's worth doing properly. Get the book

 

[PlinkIt]

If you want to know how to refinish your gun buy this book.

I'll check it out, doing a rust blue is not new to me though, I've done a few over the last ten years that came fine. Usually polish defects out and it comes out fine. The rust on these is too deep for me to just polish out though... If I blue as it is it's going to look like a teenage boys face hitting puberty but with a nice even completion

 

[PlinkIt]

That's often the case. You need to use a sharp file first, the sanding comes after when all the pitting is taken care of. Get the book

So you think the best way is to remove enough metal to smooth away again?..

How much do you guys consider ok to remove from the entire frame?..

.025"
.050"
.075"

.....

 

[cupid stunt]

Those Webley's pictured above were very rough, at least as bad as yours or worse. I did not measure the depth of the pitting, the thought never entered my head. Get the book, it taught me a lot.

You worry too much.
BTW I used Radocy HOT rust blue on those revolvers, it's much better and quicker than cold rust blue.

 

[cupid stunt]

http://www.pjsproducts.com/radocy.htm

He has pictures of my guns on his web page !

 

[cupid stunt]

Use air dry Cerakote and an airbrush to refinish.... or simpler, but not as good, a spray bomb gun finish from Brownells (many choices).

Automotive high temperature engine block paint is just as good as Cerakote, it's also ceramic. Cheaper too. It's perfect for Sub machine guns, not much else.

 

[Hellbender]

Automotive high temperature engine block paint is just as good as Cerakote, it's also ceramic. Cheaper too. It's perfect for Sub machine guns, not much else.View attachment 6999725

Brake cleaner (or acetone) will dissolve all the hi-temp paint I've used in the past, it won't touch Cerakote.
But, it's been a few years, and there may be newer stuff I'm not familiar with.

I use brake cleaner to clean everything (I buy it by the case) and if it won't take that, I'm out.

 

[cupid stunt]

Brake cleaner (or acetone) will dissolve all the hi-temp paint I've used in the past, it won't touch Cerakote.
But, it's been a few years, and there may be newer stuff I'm not familiar with.

I use brake cleaner to clean everything (I buy it by the case) and if it won't take that, I'm out.

I don't know if it will take break cleaner on not, but if cerakote does I would be surprised if it did not, I think it's the same thing... The stuff I use needs to be oven baked for 2 hours, drives the trouble and strife mad. I usually do my baking when she's out.